Does God Want Everyone to Be Catholic?

[chimo]

“It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them.[9] Nevertheless, the word “subsists” can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe… in the “one” Church); and this “one” Church subsists in the Catholic Church.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

It depends on how each Church defines this. The Catholic Church has her own definition while the Orthodox/Eastern Churches has theirs. It does not matter to the Orthodox/Eastern Church what the Church of Rome says about herself being the Church since the Orthodox/Eastern Churches would say the same thing about themselves that they are this “one” Church. It will never change them to come to accept Rome’s definition. I believe this is not what God wants. I sense both Churches are wrong in assessing themselves above each other. For the Catholic however the definitions which the Church of Rome teaches are very important to them. They go by them with an earnest desire to follow and obey them. This is what defines them. Now the Orthodox/Eastern Church has the same understanding to their Church in evaluating them in the same way the Church of Rome defines herself. It seems to me without pointing out fingers to anyone that the answer to all of this is simply both Churches are correct when evaluating themselves to be the Church. What is difficult is making each person in each Church to recognize this. How do you come to recognize the other to be the Church as the same as the one you are part of. This then becomes our greatest challenge. We will never arrive to a state when the other Church will recognize the definitions which the other Church has on the other. So what must change is our own attitudes which actually blocks what unity will exist if we stay with our own present attitudes. What must change is this refusal to accept the other the same as what you are. When we will come to accept the other without reservations than we will be able to learn that our unity must come from another source of recognition. I honestly believe the Catholic Church has a lot to teach to me. I grew up Catholic while being Orthodox. However my completeness in the truth was not there while growing up Catholic. I found much meaning to my life with Catholic teaching but it was my life in Orthodoxy which had begun in my late 20’s which had better defined me to live the life which God wanted to me to live by. I would not have achieved this if I only lived as a Catholic. My life in both Churches was the better medicine. We are at the crossroads of what our two Churches will be able to grow into if we will only discover what the other will mean for us.

 

[friardchips]

Yes, It is the Church he founded which is the pillar and foundation of truth and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

 

[Tim_D]

I don’t think God wants everyone to be Catholic.
In order to get to Heaven, everyone must accept Jesus as the Messiah, since He died on the cross for mankind.
Therefore, every Protestant denomination believes in Jesus and if they follow Him & His Commandments, they will merit Heaven.

A lot of Catholics think if they go to Church on Sunday & don’t kill anybody, they are in God’s favor & are going to Heaven when they die…not thinking about the gossip they may commit or dirty jokes they tell & movies they watch.

Many Protestants live more holy lives than Catholics and I think Jesus is pleased with them more than with a Catholic in name only.

Bottom line is you must love Jesus and live according to His Commands and ask for forgiveness when you depart from them.

I don’t know what to say about those religions that don’t accept Jesus.

Are you sure *you’re *Catholic? The Catholic Church has the sacraments established by Christ Himself; the protestant churches do not. Are you trying to equate one with the other? We do not know how much of protestantism pleases God but we do know that salvation comes from Christ through the legitimate, valid and efficacious sacraments that He gave to the Catholic Church through her bishops. Bottom line is unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you will not have life in you. We must never limit God’s mercy but it requires more than the simplicity that you posit.

“Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is Catholic.”

 

[St_Francis]

I don’t think God wants everyone to be Catholic.
In order to get to Heaven, everyone must accept Jesus as the Messiah, since He died on the cross for mankind.
Therefore, every Protestant denomination believes in Jesus and if they follow Him & His Commandments, they will merit Heaven.

A lot of Catholics think if they go to Church on Sunday & don’t kill anybody, they are in God’s favor & are going to Heaven when they die…not thinking about the gossip they may commit or dirty jokes they tell & movies they watch.

Many Protestants live more holy lives than Catholics

First, this is badly put. Are you seriously saying that “many Protestants” lead holier lives than all Catholics? Or that of the people you know, many of the Protestants appear to lead holier lives than all the Catholics? Or what?

And sure there are Protestants who a great Christians, and I certainly hope they attain Heaven, but there are many great Catholics too. There are those we know about, like the canonized saints, and there are many others we do not know about.

The other aspect is that Catholics often continue to attend Mass beyond the point that Protestants do, so there are a lot of people baptized or somehow joined in at some point with Protestant ecclesial communities who, when you get right down to it, have no religion in their lives.

and I think Jesus is pleased with them more than with a Catholic in name only.

Certainly Christ said He would spit out those who are lukewarm… but He *also *said we must eat Hid Body and drink His Flesh… so I din’t think we can blithely toss about what Christ thinks, esp since we do not know the deeper thoughts of others, like their ideas about the Church Christ founded and considers as a Bride.

Comparing the best of one group with the not-best of another group is bad argumentation. Saying “jewelry is more valuable than cars are because there exist diamonds which cost more than a car does” is silly, right? It sounds impressive, but when analyzed, it is not a meaningful statement, and certainly cannot bolster an argument.

Bottom line is you must love Jesus and live according to His Commands and ask for forgiveness when you depart from them.

What makes you think *this *is the bottom line? Christ said that we must eat of His Body and drink of His Blood… and He might know a bit more about the bottom line than we do

I don’t know what to say about those religions that don’t accept Jesus.

 

[Clevus]

I came across this article recently and wanted to get other viewpoints on it thanks.

m.ncregister.com/blog/jmartignoni/does-god-want-everyone-to-be-catholic#.WTrHw0Yo_qD

Absolutely.

If this were so then remaining lukewarm would be optional.

 

[Tim_D]

It doesn’t seem so.
It doesn’t seem he even wants everyone to be christian.
If he did, he wouldn’t have made so many other religions and gods that have survived, thrived, and endured for thousands of years. And he would have convinced everyone to be catholic, or at least given them access to finding out about it.
Millions of people around the world don’t even know about catholicism.

.

What a load of nonsense. God created " many other religions and gods?" I wasn’t aware that God was behind scientology.

 

[buffalo]

Yes. If one finds themselves in heaven, they will be Catholic and it will have been through the Catholic Church the one,holy, Catholic and Apostolic church Jesus setup for that very reason.

 

[truetofaith]

Are you sure *you’re *Catholic? The Catholic Church has the sacraments established by Christ Himself; the protestant churches do not. Are you trying to equate one with the other? We do not know how much of protestantism pleases God but we do know that salvation comes from Christ through the legitimate, valid and efficacious sacraments that He gave to the Catholic Church through her bishops. Bottom line is unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you will not have life in you. We must never limit God’s mercy but it requires more than the simplicity that you posit.

“Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is Catholic.”

Yes, I’m Catholic but what you are saying really disturbs me!

According to your post …people who are born into a Protestant denomination, are all going to hell, no matter how in love with Jesus and how well they follow Him. I won’t even mention Jews, Hindus etc.
We Catholics have a huge advantage with the sacraments. Many Catholics don’t partake of some of them like, Penance, thinking their sins are not that bad.
I know Jesus said, "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you will not have life in you", but you can't just write off everyone who doesn't convert to Catholicism!

 

[Tim_D]

Yes, I’m Catholic but what you are saying really disturbs me!

According to your post …people who are born into a Protestant denomination, are all going to hell, no matter how in love with Jesus and how well they follow Him. I won’t even mention Jews, Hindus etc.
We Catholics have a huge advantage with the sacraments. Many Catholics don’t partake of some of them like, Penance, thinking their sins are not that bad.

             I know Jesus said, "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you will not have life in you", but you can't just write off everyone who doesn't convert to Catholicism!

I did not say that and the Church does not say that. The fact of the matter is that the Church of Christ IS the Catholic Church. The ordinary means of grace are available through the sacraments of the Church. To the extent that some protestant denominations have valid baptism is a plus for them, HOWEVER, it does not compare to the sacrifice of the Mass and the administration of the other sacraments as a means to grace. One cannot deny that Christ Himself established the two greatest means of grace, the sacrifice of the Mass and absolution of sins through confession. Without a valid Eucharist and absolution of sin, one must then rely completely on God’s mercy. We should never attempt to put a limit on God’s mercy but the fact is that perfect contrition is most probably not a common achievement. How much does protestantism, with its error and occasional anti-Catholic rhetoric, please God? We don’t know but there is no doubt that God’s people are meant to be part of the Universal Church of Christ which is found only in the Catholic Church. How a Catholic can deny this is beyond me. Your position is far closer to one of religious indifferentism than traditional Catholicism.

 

[truetofaith]

By the way, Tim_D…your last line …"Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is Catholic, " is completely false.
You're saying Noah, Moses, Abraham, St. Peter, all the apostles etc. are not in heaven because they weren't Catholic! :eek:

 

[Tim_D]

By the way, Tim_D…your last line …"Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is Catholic, " is completely false.

            You're saying Noah, Moses, Abraham, St. Peter, all the apostles etc. are not in heaven because they weren't Catholic! :eek:

I’m afraid that you don’t even comprehend the discussion.

St. Peter wasn’t Catholic???

Being Catholic isn’t just a label that one puts behind their name. Being Catholic means partaking in the institution that Christ established as the ordinary means of salvation for mankind. Noah, Moses and Abraham are pre-Christian progenitors of the Church. They are “catholic” in the sense that they responded to and cooperated in God’s will. Indeed, every one in heaven is Catholic, not because they go to the church in their parish and put their envelopes into the basket every Sunday, but because they are part of Christ’s Church.

Yes, everyone in heaven* is Catholic.*

 

[buffalo]

By the way, Tim_D…your last line …"Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is Catholic, " is completely false.

            You're saying Noah, Moses, Abraham, St. Peter, all the apostles etc. are not in heaven because they weren't Catholic! :eek:

They are all Catholic now and part of the mystical universal body of Christ.

 

[buffalo]

I’m afraid that you don’t even comprehend the discussion.

St. Peter wasn’t Catholic???

Being Catholic isn’t just a label that one puts behind their name. Being Catholic means partaking in the institution that Christ established as the ordinary means of salvation for mankind. Noah, Moses and Abraham are pre-Christian progenitors of the Church. They are “catholic” in the sense that they responded to and cooperated in God’s will. Indeed, every one in heaven is Catholic, not because they go to the church in their parish and put their envelopes into the basket every Sunday, but because they are part of Christ’s Church.

Yes, everyone in heaven* is Catholic.*

 

[PJM]

I came across this article recently and wanted to get other viewpoints on it thanks.

m.ncregister.com/blog/jmartignoni/does-god-want-everyone-to-be-catholic#.WTrHw0Yo_qD

YES absoutely:thumbsup:

HOW might we know this?

Logically, morally, biblically and objectively there is

Only One True God

Even God can have and hold ONLY one set of Faith beliefs [God’s TRUTHS]

And God desired, established and protects just One Church [His Catholic Church] from Faith and Moral errors in the FULLNESS of His Truths.

 

[johnnyc176]

By the way, Tim_D…your last line …"Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is Catholic, " is completely false.

            You're saying Noah, Moses, Abraham, St. Peter, all the apostles etc. are not in heaven because they weren't Catholic! :eek:

If one is saved it is only through Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. Hence everyone in Heaven is Catholic.

 

[johnnyc176]

By the way, Tim_D…your last line …"Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is Catholic, " is completely false.

            You're saying Noah, Moses, Abraham, St. Peter, all the apostles etc. are not in heaven because they weren't Catholic! :eek:

But the question is not about salvation anyway. Do you really think Jesus would establish a Church and institute the Sacraments and not want everyone to receive those Graces? Did not Jesus pray for unity?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Hebrews 8:10-11
This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach everyone his fellow or everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

This is all that counts.

 

[truetofaith]

If one is saved it is only through Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. Hence everyone in Heaven is Catholic.

You are playing with words…Catholic means Universal…so you are saying …everyone in heaven is part of the Universal Church ( Catholic Church )?

Then Moses, Adam & Eve, Abraham, the thief on the cross, etc. & all the faithful deceased Protestants are now Catholics in Heaven.

 

[Tim_D]

You are playing with words…Catholic means Universal…so you are saying …everyone in heaven is part of the Universal Church ( Catholic Church )?

Then Moses, Adam & Eve, Abraham, the thief on the cross, etc. & all the faithful deceased Protestants are now Catholics in Heaven.

You still don’t get what the word “Catholic” means.

It isn’t a case of Catholic vs. protestant vs. Jew vs. whatever; the Church of Christ is the Catholic Church, the “universal” Church. It is the institution and means by which God, from the beginning of time, sought to reconcile the world to Himself, culminating in the institution of the Eucharist, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If anyone in the world is saved, be they catholic, protestant, Jewish or whatever, it is through the efficacious prayer and sacrifice of the Mass through the Church, her bishops, priests and people. To be “Catholic” in heaven means to be part of God’s eternal plan of salvation. It does not refer to the institutional distinction of catholic, orthodox, Russian orthodox or whatever. Wherever there is an ecclesiastical community served by a legitimate bishop ordained through valid apostolic succession, there stands part of the Church, the “Catholic Church.” Moses, Abraham and the Good Thief are all witnesses to God’s plan. The fact that the lived before the institutional foundation of the Church after Pentecost does not mean that they were not part of it.

 

[peter26]

God has said what he wants of mankind. To love him with all your heart, mind and strength. That has nothing intrinsically to do with which church you are a member of.