Does Gun Control Prevent Gun Crime?

[levi86]

Today the US military would not fight for long against it own. Most of the fighting then would be is pockets with police. Eventually they will run and the only thing then would be limited resistance. This is why every time they get wind of an anti government group they come down hard, to prevent any of that. We will not fight, unless our Rights as guaranteed under the Constitution are taken away. I say, If I can’t have my second they can’t have their first. The government will find reasons to strip all rights, once the guns are gone. This is the slippery slope of politics. Our leaders are not meant to have that kind of power.

Can I assume that you are opposed to a professionalised military (as apposed to a citizens militia)? It would appear that the writers of your constitution viewed a standing army as a threat to the individual.

 

[Larry1700]

But honestly, do you believe that your ability to bear arms still secures your freedom from an oppressive government? Do you believe that a loose collection of armed citizens would be any match for a fully professionalised and well equipped military?

I’m not a student of history, but it’s my understanding that the American Revolution was precisely this – a bunch of individuals banded together and defeated the British military.

And I’m sorry, but I simply cannot resist:
A loose collection of armed citizens (insurgents in Iraq) will defeat the U.S. military, if the Democrats have their way (establishing a timetable for withdrawal). In fact, we have already been defeated, if you believe Senator Harry Reid.

 

[mgrobertson79]

Can I assume that you are opposed to a professionalised military (as apposed to a citizens militia)? It would appear that the writers of your constitution viewed a standing army as a threat to the individual.

I am and it is. What the writers of the Constitution wrote holds true today. We need nothing more than to defend our borders here and deal with situations as they arise. We do not need a military that goes around the world overthrowing other governments, sounds too much like our predecessor.

I also believe we need peace officers instead of police officers. We less laws and what we have should be common sense laws. The police aren’t there to babysit people. It is ridiculous to call the police because the neighbors dog did it’s business on your lawn.(local example) It amazes me how petty some of the things I hear on the scanner. I understand driving while impaired, that is a problem, but calling the cops every time you don’t get your way is like me running to the moderator here every time someone says something I don’t like. I will not do it. It is just silly and makes no since.

We are adults and should handle ourselves as such. I feel our society coddles both criminals(food, clothing, meals, no work) in prison as well as the people who never grew up(always running to mommy because they didn’t get their way). The welfare system helps breed illegitimate children and puts a burden on everyone. They shouldn’t eat if the don’t work(unless they are physically unable). Just because people are irresponsible and have many children out of wedlock doesn’t give them a right to burden an already broken system.

Social programs are alright, as long as they do not unnecessarily burden the general population. We are taxed through the nose now, and they keep wanting more. I think its time to throw the tea in the bay again.

 

[Guardian]

I don’t care what the gun law is, I’m going to own and carry my gun on me regardless, because I know the criminals won’t care what the gun law says either.

If the government somehow steals my gun like the Nazi’s did with the Jews’ guns, then I’ll make my own gun in my garage. A gun is actually quite simple to make.

So there!!! So much for gun control!

 

[mary_bobo]

I have called the police 3 times in my life. In all 3 cases, they were **very **slow in arriving (over an hour). By that time, the events were over.

Did you know that the police have no responsibility to answer the call of a single person? They are required to promote the general good i.e. mass killings, riots, out of control marches. They do respond to individual calls, but they are a bit down the list in priority.

 

[mary_bobo]

Is that typical for your area? The police forces in America aren’t that bad are they?

I remember a few months ago there was public outrage in my state when the average response time went above 8 minutes. Surely this isn’t the exception as far as police forces go?

It’s not that bad. It’s a matter of not enough cops to police so many people. I think your problem is less than ours, people-wise and police wise.

 

[mary_bobo]

I have been to Mass Mary and peace works in all counties and peoples and nations. To have a need for weapons, guns, means that there is a constant threat. And no body is safe when they live under a constant threat. Remember even Jesus said those who live bu the sword die by the sword. If you want the freedom to he armed then you have to accept the freedom others have to shoot the said guns and generally at other human beings.
Sorry Mary it has nothing to do with Im better or you are better etc. It has to do with what we learn to live with and accept.
God Bless
Grace Angel.

Good grief. Lighten up. I was only trying to defuse a contentious argument that is getting no one anywhere. Opinions are what we have here–not to be confused with facts. I don’t criticize your system. It works for you. Please keep your criticism of the US to yourself. Your ideals are admirable. Put them to use where you are.

 

[Grace_Angel]

I have called the police 3 times in my life. In all 3 cases, they were **very **slow in arriving (over an hour). By that time, the events were over.

So Larry the answer to slow police, is weaponry and beaing armed. Imagine if you had been a hot head and armed what might have happened in those events. (unless it did of course happen).
Grace Angel.

 

[hosemonkey]

So Larry the answer to slow police, is weaponry and beaing armed. Imagine if you had been a hot head and armed what might have happened in those events. (unless it did of course happen).
Grace Angel.

As I said before, I thought all the sheep were in New Zealand.
I live in the country and police response is most times over an hour away. My local deputy tells me “You’ re on your own till I get there, handle it.” Can do.
Jesus said" He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword." Jesus also said’ He who has no sword, let him sell his cloak and buy one." So scripture is not necessarily for “sword control.”
I’ll keep my gun, I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.
You aussies want to give up your guns, fine. Us Yanks know better.

 

[Grace_Angel]

As I said before, I thought all the sheep were in New Zealand.
I live in the country and police response is most times over an hour away. My local deputy tells me “You’ re on your own till I get there, handle it.” Can do.
Jesus said" He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword." Jesus also said’ He who has no sword, let him sell his cloak and buy one." So scripture is not necessarily for “sword control.”
I’ll keep my gun, I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.
You aussies want to give up your guns, fine. Us Yanks know better.

“Us Yanks know better?” OK I can go with that. You Yanks keep having the massacres you have then and stop bleeting about them. It seems like there are sheep not only in NZ but America is full of them.
Grace Angel.

 

[Jedda]

Does gun control prevent gun crimes? The evidence actually suggest the opposite. In cities with gun bans, Chicago and Washington D.C. to name a few, violent crimes increased soon after strict gun bans were put in place. Do people have a right to self defense? The Church says so. Do criminals abide by gun laws?(or any other law) the courts in the U.S. have decided on numerous occasions that law enforcement does not have a duty to protect, only a general duty to enforce the law.

I said no, I think guns would still be a problem. i live in Ny and see this everyday. The “bad guys” would just ship more in to the city.

 

[Grace_Angel]

Good grief. Lighten up. I was only trying to defuse a contentious argument that is getting no one anywhere. Opinions are what we have here–not to be confused with facts. I don’t criticize your system. It works for you. Please keep your criticism of the US to yourself. Your ideals are admirable. Put them to use where you are.

Mary I have been riducle by your posters, about aborigines and about being a sheep etc. So its not me that has to lighten up. Tell that to your American posters. I only responded.

 

[mary_bobo]

Mary I have been riducle by your posters, about aborigines and about being a sheep etc. So its not me that has to lighten up. Tell that to your American posters. I only responded.

I’m sorry if you felt ridiculed. I do not think that was the intention. Sometimes folks get so heated in a discussion that they insult and say cruel and/or immature things. That is not an excuse, it is a fact. This whole discussion is on the wrong track. All of us need to read the forum rules again. The remarks being made here are not in the spirit of the forum.

I don’t think either of us likes to hear our country torn down by some who have never visited here, or there, and it is quite rude to judge one country on the basis of what you know of your country. I can criticize my own country and I do from time to time, but I highly resent it when someone who is not a citizen does so. I bet you feel the same way. I hope to visit Australia in the near future. I show dogs that originated there and I would like to see some of the good ones there.

 

[2shelbys]

I am always shocked that anyone could be so mis-informed by the media that they would use Australia’s gun ban as proof that gun control works. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The “International Crime Victims Survey” (released in 2000) was the first to conduct an examination of the affect that the Austrailian bans had. They found, among other facts, that:

1. Overall crime victimization in Australia rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.
2. Australia led the ICVS report in three of four categories – burglary (3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall victimization (about 31 percent). Australia was second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent). “Led the report” means they were the worst in the civilized world in those categories.
3. Armed robberies increased 45 percent. In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides increased nearly 300 percent. In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily. There has been an increase in nearly every violent crime statistic since the bans went into effect.
4. Countrywide, homicides were up 3.2 percent. Assaults were up 8.6 percent.

Austrailia shows us exactly what England does. That gun control is the best friend criminals have and is reckless endangerment of the citizens. In the U.S. there are an average of 1.5 million crimes foiled every year by citizens with their own private arms and in over 99% of those instances no one is hurt. I would not trade that for all of the false security in Australia, England, or the world.

 

[mgrobertson79]

Mary I have been riducle by your posters, about aborigines and about being a sheep etc. So its not me that has to lighten up. Tell that to your American posters. I only responded.

You were not called a sheep. We call people here sheeple who just go along with everyone else because they do. Like follow the leader because they can’t or will not think for themselves. This, though not said by me, I believe was not meant to demean you in any way and though we use the term in America in a negative sense, we should not use it towards foreigners who would not understand the context.

As it has been said before, you guys have a different culture and have no business judging us. What has worked for you, is not an option here. Though I have made some strong statements here, I do understand the gun culture and come from a long line of military war veterans. I know the horrors of war are not something we want our children to experience and thus want to eliminate all possibilities of such. For this to happen, we will have to disarm police, military and all bodyguards. No one can be treated special. This will not happen because you will always find someone that thinks they are better than everyone else.

 

[Grace_Angel]

I’m sorry if you felt ridiculed. I do not think that was the intention. Sometimes folks get so heated in a discussion that they insult and say cruel and/or immature things. That is not an excuse, it is a fact. This whole discussion is on the wrong track. All of us need to read the forum rules again. The remarks being made here are not in the spirit of the forum.

I don’t think either of us likes to hear our country torn down by some who have never visited here, or there, and it is quite rude to judge one country on the basis of what you know of your country. I can criticize my own country and I do from time to time, but I highly resent it when someone who is not a citizen does so. I bet you feel the same way. I hope to visit Australia in the near future. I show dogs that originated there and I would like to see some of the good ones there.

Mary all I did was to express an opinion that I dont believe that “rights” to gun ownership and massive amount of private gun ownership is good. Thats all. I expressed how we have it here. I said that I travel a lot and love returning to my land. And I was told about the early settlers and their treatment of aborigines etc.
Someones father was here at the beginning of the 20th century and how bad things were. Sorry. I responded to that ridicule.
I do hope you come to australia and I do sincerely hope your stay here is marvellous and one of my friends is a show dog trainer. So Mary I know that within that group of people you will be made most welcome and will be happy for having come here.
Grace Angel.

 

[hosemonkey]

I am always shocked that anyone could be so mis-informed by the media that they would use Australia’s gun ban as proof that gun control works. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The “International Crime Victims Survey” (released in 2000) was the first to conduct an examination of the affect that the Austrailian bans had. They found, among other facts, that:

1. Overall crime victimization in Australia rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.
2. Australia led the ICVS report in three of four categories – burglary (3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall victimization (about 31 percent). Australia was second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent). “Led the report” means they were the worst in the civilized world in those categories.
3. Armed robberies increased 45 percent. In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides increased nearly 300 percent. In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily. There has been an increase in nearly every violent crime statistic since the bans went into effect.
4. Countrywide, homicides were up 3.2 percent. Assaults were up 8.6 percent.

Austrailia shows us exactly what England does. That gun control is the best friend criminals have and is reckless endangerment of the citizens. In the U.S. there are an average of 1.5 million crimes foiled every year by citizens with their own private arms and in over 99% of those instances no one is hurt. I would not trade that for all of the false security in Australia, England, or the world.

How do you like them apples?

And, I read in the Times of London that there are now an average of 14 surveillance cameras for every man, woman and child in the UK. Since the British government has confiscated everone’s firearms, WHY, in this “safest” of all societies, do they need all those cameras? Hmmmmmmmm?

 

[Sheeniac]

How do you like them apples?

And, I read in the Times of London that there are now an average of 14 surveillance cameras for every man, woman and child in the UK. Since the British government has confiscated everone’s firearms, WHY, in this “safest” of all societies, do they need all those cameras? Hmmmmmmmm?

Obviously to find the criminals after they’ve committed the crimes. Like I would care if the perp was caught if I’m dead.

IMO, self-defense is a basic human right, and I try not to be angry with those who would leave me defenseless.

 

[Grace_Angel]

How do you like them apples?

And, I read in the Times of London that there are now an average of 14 surveillance cameras for every man, woman and child in the UK. Since the British government has confiscated everone’s firearms, WHY, in this “safest” of all societies, do they need all those cameras? Hmmmmmmmm?

hosemoneky, why if its so safe in USA do you need a “right” to own a gun. guns kill. they do nothing else. and when was the last time you heard of a massacre in australia?
There is a world of difference betwen “auto theft” and massacre is there not. You will do anything to justify gun ownership. Do you feel good? do you feel powerful with a gun? do you feel important with a gun? Ask yourself why you need guns, except to kill.
Grace Angel.

 

[Sheeniac]

hosemoneky, why if its so safe in USA do you need a “right” to own a gun. guns kill. they do nothing else. and when was the last time you heard of a massacre in australia?
There is a world of difference betwen “auto theft” and massacre is there not. You will do anything to justify gun ownership. Do you feel good? do you feel powerful with a gun? do you feel important with a gun? Ask yourself why you need guns, except to kill.
Grace Angel.

I think it is safe, overall. Why do I want to own a gun? Because all it takes is one time for it not to be.

So yes - I need a gun to kill someone before they hurt or kill me. I do feel powerful in that I am able to protect myself and others.

I pray that NEVER happens though - just as I pray never to need my smoke alarm or fire extinguisher.

(Edited for typo)