Actually, I did just edit my post to comment on that more. But yes, they do it because of the fulfillment of some animal or intellectual appetite. A good in itself, but it’s being accomplished through very disordered ways.Wesrock:
So then what is the ‘good’ that is the object of murder? It feels good to release rage?
Anger is an emotion, neither good nor bad. In fact anger at an injustice is righteous and good. Anger out of envy is bad. Anger has its place.Wesrock:
So then what is the ‘good’ that is the object of murder? It feels good to release rage? I see you mention this below, but it seems odd to me how that could be considered good in any way. Basically it seems to suggest any feeling we have is a good one, even if we reach that feeling in wrong ways.
But how is anger good? It’s the sin of wrath
I can be mad (and rightfully so) about all the abortions happening. But it doesn’t give me excuse to go shoot people at an abortion clinic. Therefore, it seems my anger led me to sin and so, how does a good lead to evil? Seems then that the anger was misplaced and not actually righteous because if one was angry about innocent lives being killed, then they wouldn’t go kill more innocent lives.
In theory? There is no theoretical in heaven. Freedom becomes completely real, freedom is personified in Christ. Your freedom consists of eternal unity with the love of Christ. You desire nothing else.
Church teaching on the subject is that the angels had not been given the fulfillment of their highest good (the beatific vision) prior to their choice. So Satan never had that perfect good. He could have, though. Heaven as a term can refer to multiple things, for example in a broad sense meaning the created things that are immaterial/invisible as St. Augustine of Hippo puts it (all the angels). When Christians speak of going to Heaven, it’s kind of an indirect way of speaking about a person who has been given the beatific vision and is now with God in that intimate way. The angels, prior to their initial choice, did not have that.
Your fundamental assumption seems to be that freedom necessitates bad things happening.
While we have stories like Paradise Lost and The Inferno, we don’t really have a lot of mythology or details on the subject. Satan and certain other angels rejected God as their highest end and put their own pursuits first, acting contrary to their natures.
Isn’t it unfair then that the devil is eternally damned when not having the beatific vision first to see what he was doing?
This is a really important point. When Christians speak of slavery to sin and liberation from sin, we’re quite serious. Sin is in some sense to our freedom to choose the good. Shackles that bind and weight us down and deter us from the good. And they indicate defects in the person’s choices.Dolphin:
Your fundamental assumption seems to be that freedom necessitates bad things happening.
Satan had sufficient knowledge to be held accountable for his choice, that he was an agent acting deliberately with knowledge, even if he personally hadn’t the experience of the beatific vision.Wesrock:
Isn’t it unfair then that the devil is eternally damned when not having the beatific vision first to see what he was doing?
Yes… but I think delving into what an angel is, how they are intellectual but not rational, how their knowledge is infused and not observed, creates a lot of nuances which may not be necessary to the topic’s question. And it’d probably take some effort!
There’s not just one option, but a will that is always ordered to seeking the good and which has perfectly obtained it isn’t going to by some process choose instead something which is perfectly known by that agent to be lesser and incomplete.
How is this different than us (especially as Christians and Catholics) knowing that murder is wrong but choosing it anyway. We still can be forgiven if we ask for it. Why do we get the chance for forgiveness if we had the knowledge to know it was wrong in the first place. But the devil does not get this chance for forgiveness?
That’s a topic I was alluding to when I wrote, “but I think delving into what an angel is, how they are intellectual but not rational, how their knowledge is infused and not observed, creates a lot of nuances which may not be necessary to the topic’s question. And it’d probably take some effort!”Wesrock:
How is this different than us (especially as Christians and Catholics) knowing that murder is wrong but choosing it anyway. We still can be forgiven if we ask for it. Why do we get the chance for forgiveness if we had the knowledge to know it was wrong in the first place. But the devil does not get this chance for forgiveness?
I’m not advocating for the devil by any means, just doesn’t seem consistent or I clearly don’t understand