Does Hell exist in its conventional form?

[buffalo]

AScottishSpirit:

Oh, really? Because I’ve heard from many who’ve been there that people in India are anything but despairing. In fact, they’ve been desrcibed to me from these same individuals as quite peaceful and joyous. Their poverty and misfortune does not always denote despair. Despair is a state of mind, not being. And their hopelessness and despair is not a fact you’ve stated, but only your oppinion that you’ve represented as such. And I hardly think it’s their belief in reincarnation that causes them hardship. If you want to take a rational view of the matter, I’d say a government immeshed in poverty would better explain.

With regards,
~*Sheena

Indians will not stop to help a person lying in the street because they believe that is their state in this life. They believe they will be reincarnated into something different (better or worse) and they cannot change the present, so why try. They will step over the dying and suffering in the street because of this belief in reincarnation.

Here is just one article that I googled.

[** Reincarnation & Karma Scientifically Debunked** (Reincarnation & Karma Scientifically Debunked [ The Brahmanist doctrine of Reincarnation is in Conflict with Basic Science, and is also Internally Contradictory ])
** Conclusion **

 Thus, karma and reincarnation were doctrines that were merely invented by fanatic Vedist and Vaishnava (and Smarta) Brahmins in order to find a high-flying justification for their heinous crimes, namely :

• ** Apartheid ** - “Sudras are lowly and suffer because of their sins in a past life. Hence Vedic apartheid (caturvarna) is acceptable.”
• ** Female Infanticide ** - " By killing the female children, they are prevented from accruing immoral sin in this lifetime. Hence they are able to be quickly reborn in their next life as a higher being, preferably a Brahmin male. Thus, the killing of female children is a meritorious act, being good for the murdered females themselves. "
• ** Sati ** - " By performing sati, the pious widow prevents herself from sinning and thereby falling into lower births. "
• ** Suicide ** - " By cutting his own life short, the suicidal person cuts short his life, preventing the accumulation of sin and avoiding being reborn into a lower birth. "
  
  Hence, Hinduism sanctions all of the above aberrations. All done in the name of karma and reincarnation.

 

[AScottishSpirit]

buffalo:

Indians will not stop to help a person lying in the street because they believe that is their state in this life. They believe they will be reincarnated into something different (better or worse) and they cannot change the present, so why try. They will step over the dying and suffering in the street because of this belief in reincarnation.

Here is just one article that I googled.

[** Reincarnation & Karma Scientifically Debunked** (Reincarnation & Karma Scientifically Debunked [ The Brahmanist doctrine of Reincarnation is in Conflict with Basic Science, and is also Internally Contradictory ])
** Conclusion **

 Thus, karma and reincarnation were doctrines that were merely invented by fanatic Vedist and Vaishnava (and Smarta) Brahmins in order to find a high-flying justification for their heinous crimes, namely :

• ** Apartheid ** - “Sudras are lowly and suffer because of their sins in a past life. Hence Vedic apartheid (caturvarna) is acceptable.”
• ** Female Infanticide ** - " By killing the female children, they are prevented from accruing immoral sin in this lifetime. Hence they are able to be quickly reborn in their next life as a higher being, preferably a Brahmin male. Thus, the killing of female children is a meritorious act, being good for the murdered females themselves. "
• ** Sati ** - " By performing sati, the pious widow prevents herself from sinning and thereby falling into lower births. "
• ** Suicide ** - " By cutting his own life short, the suicidal person cuts short his life, preventing the accumulation of sin and avoiding being reborn into a lower birth. "
  
  Hence, Hinduism sanctions all of the above aberrations. All done in the name of karma and reincarnation.

If I’m to believe that Divinity can be scientifically “debunked”, then wouldn’t it have been impossible for the Virgin Mary to have been “ever Virgin”? Scientifically speaking, of course, there is no way she could have concieved and given birth to a child had she indeed been a Virgin. No possibility, scientifically, that Christ rose from the dead. Science also generally adheres to the belief that we all evolved from our Chimpanzee companions, and were not, in fact, born from Genesis. The idea that you would wish to convince me to change my beliefs based off of scientific evidence, the same practice whose evidence you ignore as it pertains to some basic Christian beliefs, is ridiculous. What is this sort of “proof” going to mean if you don’t believe in it yourself? How is this any different from denying the virginity of Mary, the resurrection of Christ, and intelligent design other than it doesn’t attempt to dissuade belief in your particular faith?

I could say, just as easily, that all of these fundamental aspects of Christianity were created by over-zealous followers of a prophet who wanted to control the masses by claiming a few miraculous events. And if you want to go on a fanatical tirade about how many innocent women and children those of the Christian faith have raped and murdered in the past, in the name of Christ no less, then let me know, and I’ll be glad to provide just such a list as you provided me.

In addition, if in fact what you said about how people in India “step over the dying and suffering in the street because of this belief in reincarnation”, then I ask how this is any different from the hundreds of thousands of Christians who claim their faith and yet make no actual effort in changing the plight of the poor and suffering? How many people of any faith step over the suffering and poor and do nothing? This has nothing to do with religious faith, but with personal choice. And that is only if the information you have provided me with is correct. My sources say quite differently. It is in their definition that while many in India believe karma is the source of suffering, they are also taught to assist in alleviating that suffering in whatever way they can.

With Regards,
Sheena

 

[buffalo]

AScottishSpirit:

If I’m to believe that Divinity can be scientifically “debunked”, then wouldn’t it have been impossible for the Virgin Mary to have been “ever Virgin”? Scientifically speaking, of course, there is no way she could have concieved and given birth to a child had she indeed been a Virgin. No possibility, scientifically, that Christ rose from the dead. Science also generally adheres to the belief that we all evolved from our Chimpanzee companions, and were not, in fact, born from Genesis. The idea that you would wish to convince me to change my beliefs based off of scientific evidence, the same practice whose evidence you ignore as it pertains to some basic Christian beliefs, is ridiculous. What is this sort of “proof” going to mean if you don’t believe in it yourself? How is this any different from denying the virginity of Mary, the resurrection of Christ, and intelligent design other than it doesn’t attempt to dissuade belief in your particular faith?

I could say, just as easily, that all of these fundamental aspects of Christianity were created by over-zealous followers of a prophet who wanted to control the masses by claiming a few miraculous events. And if you want to go on a fanatical tirade about how many innocent women and children those of the Christian faith have raped and murdered in the past, in the name of Christ no less, then let me know, and I’ll be glad to provide just such a list as you provided me.

In addition, if in fact what you said about how people in India “step over the dying and suffering in the street because of this belief in reincarnation”, then I ask how this is any different from the hundreds of thousands of Christians who claim their faith and yet make no actual effort in changing the plight of the poor and suffering? How many people of any faith step over the suffering and poor and do nothing? This has nothing to do with religious faith, but with personal choice. And that is only if the information you have provided me with is correct. My sources say quite differently. It is in their definition that while many in India believe karma is the source of suffering, they are also taught to assist in alleviating that suffering in whatever way they can.

With Regards,
Sheena

There is a big difference. Christians have the hope of salvation. Whether or not they act in a totally charitable way is indeed a choice. In India if there is no hope why even bother.

 

[AScottishSpirit]

buffalo:

There is a big difference. Christians have the hope of salvation. Whether or not they act in a totally charitable way is indeed a choice. In India if there is no hope why even bother.

I certainly hope you aren’t meaning to excuse Christians from their bad behaviour simply because they can always repent and be “saved”. It doesn’t matter who or what religion the person is, if they commit a crime against humanity, God, whoever He may be, will see it as equal. And once more, reincarnation does not dictate that there is no hope. Reincarnation states that it can help improve your positive Karma by helping others in their time of need. It doesn’t say that your position can’t be improved. In fact, the point is to learn how to make happiness out of suffering, not simply to suffer. You seem to have a very flawed view of what the belief really dictates, or are basing your oppinions off of a single religion.

Regards,
Sheena

 

[buffalo]

AScottishSpirit:

I certainly hope you aren’t meaning to excuse Christians from their bad behaviour simply because they can always repent and be “saved”. It doesn’t matter who or what religion the person is, if they commit a crime against humanity, God, whoever He may be, will see it as equal. And once more, reincarnation does not dictate that there is no hope. Reincarnation states that it can help improve your positive Karma by helping others in their time of need. It doesn’t say that your position can’t be improved. In fact, the point is to learn how to make happiness out of suffering, not simply to suffer. You seem to have a very flawed view of what the belief really dictates, or are basing your oppinions off of a single religion.

Regards,
Sheena

Incarnation is for the next life - if you are stuck in this life with a bad deal there is no hope of improvement.