Does incorruptible is really miracle?

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S_A_M

S_A_M

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i was once have an (like an endless) argue with my (atheist) friend about God’s existence, and we’re talking about incorruptible (Saint Bernadette, which has been investigated for 3 times and never been solved why her body never got rotten or corrupt) and he said that the investigation is been held, by latest of, 1925 (which is still using non-advanced technology compared to the present time) and he gave me a link that explains that incorruptible is explainable by science and, thus, is very normal if you know the cause behind it.
i wanna ask all of you, is incorruptible is really a miracle?
 
Corruption begins almost immediately after death for everyone, except those of whom God makes a sign and a witness to remain supple and incorrupt for many years or indefinitely.

It’s definitely a miracle; don’t let claims that science explains it fool you.
 
When the Anglican Cathedral here in Liverpool in the UK had to dig up a graveyard to make room, many bodies were found to be whole and incorrupt, despite being a century old. When this was investigated. it was found that a chalybeate spring had soaked through the coffins and this had preserved the bodies.

So an incorrupt body does not necessarily mean holiness. It could just be the conditions of the soil in which the body had been buried.
 
It depends. The Church would investigate it as any other purported miracle. There may be natural explanations for some occurrences (as in paperwight66’s example). But in other instances, no natural explanation works.
 
Except the fact that for the incorruptible saints, those buried next to them had decayed. Also, their clothes decayed, but not their bodies. St. Bernadette’s clothes were decayed and had to be changed.

Also, the saints bodies are soft and supple, where others are not.

Contrary to believe, moisture helps the decay process. Dry heat slows it. In the cases of saints, their bodies were usually buried in less than prime conditions for preserving a corpse.

In all, the purpose of incorruptibility is for our faith, not the deceased who is already with God in heaven.

Jim
 
As others have stated, the state of being incorrupt is not necessarily miraculous and various natural means can explain the phenomenon (any time there is a finding of an unexpected “mummy” or “mummified remains,” it means that a body has been found that did not undergo the expected corruption).

Several of the incorrupt saints, however, were found do after explicit attempts to decompose their flesh. Has he examined those at all? St. Francis Xavier, for example, was buried in quicklime to have his remains reduced to bones so they could be repatriated some time later.
 
Beryllos said:
Bodies can be preserved for thousands of years in bogs, due to lack of oxygen and other factors (cool temperature, acidity).

from wikipedia: Bog Body
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This is true except that as soon as the bodies are removed, they begin to decay and decay rapidly.

Not so the incorruptible bodies of Saints.

Some have even bled when relics were attempted to be taken

Jim
 
Beryllos said:
Bodies can be preserved for thousands of years in bogs, due to lack of oxygen and other factors (cool temperature, acidity).

from wikipedia: Bog Body
Click to expand...
I don’t think ANYONE would claim that a body preserved in a bog is incorrupted :doh2:

Preserved perhaps NOT incorrupted 😉

On the other hand a body that has been buried and when you dug it out the clothes are thoroughly rotted away any metal is utterly corroded and yet the body is just as it had been interred a few hours ago, That is something to take note.

St. Bernadette has been examined 3 times and the Drs. at each examination have come with more questions than they had previously.
So advancing science was of NO avail to them.

Which is typically what distinguishes a TRUE miracle, a stubborn opposition at being explained away :rolleyes:

Peace 👍
 
There is a scientific explanation which basically is mummification. However in order for this process to work, there has to be a very dry environment and certain conditions should be met like no presence of open wounds,lack of oxigen, etc. And that is why many atheist argue there is a scientific explanation for it. However what they are missing is that in Saints cases most of the time the conditions are highly adverse for mummification. Natural mummification does not happen in humid environments. Many incorruptible saints have been buried in highly humid areas which defies all scientific explanations. In the case of st bernadette the place where she was buried was so humid that her clothes were damp when she was taken out. Also, she had a long illness before dying and again people with open wounds and severe illness don’t mummify because this attracts bacteria or the bacteria inside attacks the flesh quicker. The fact that Bernadette’s body was not corrupted despite humidity and her illness is the miracle. Also, st father Pio who is on the list, was buried with mayor open wounds. There are no cases of mummification when the corps has open wounds present. Same with st Rita of Casia who atheist love to argue is mummified, the fact she was buried with an open wound defies all laws of nature. St silvan is another example he suffered martyrdom and had multiple wounds, was buried without a cofin with other people in a humid place. His body was the ONLY one that remained incorrupt despite humidity, wounds and no cofin. So as you can see there is a miracle when it comes to incorrupt saints.
 
I highly recommend the book, “The Incorruptibles: A Study of the Incorruption of the Bodies of Various Catholic Saints and Beatified.” by Joan Carol Cruz.

She begins the book explaining the differences between mummified bodies and others that have avoided decay, and that of the incurruptibles.

Jim
 
What is the best example of an incorrupt saint that I can use as an example of a miracle? I think this would be good material to present to Atheists. Has there been much documented scientific work done on incorruptible Saints.

Thanks,
-EM
 
endaman said:
What is the best example of an incorrupt saint that I can use as an example of a miracle? I think this would be good material to present to Atheists. Has there been much documented scientific work done on incorruptible Saints.

Thanks,
-EM
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Look up Venerable Solanus Casey. He is recent, is from Detroit, and his body had been floating in water for nearly 30 years.
 
Another thing to keep in mind, guys, is that in the case of incorruptible saints, the Church uses every means available to verify that they are in fact incorrupt. They cannot be declared incorrupt if there is any contributing factor whatsoever in the preservation of the body. Therefore, if there is anything like peat present or lack of oxygen/moisture, the body will not be declared incorrupt, even if well preserved. The ones declared incorrupt are remarkable in that there is no scientific explanation. 😉
 
Pablopedro said:
Look up Venerable Solanus Casey. He is recent, is from Detroit, and his body had been floating in water for nearly 30 years.
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Any reference to Venerable Solanus Casey floating in water for 30 years. Is there and reports on him from the Church or Scientists?
 
S_A_M said:
@marymary1975: thanks for the explanations, btw, can you give links for your explanations?
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Here are a couple of links that will give you a general explanation about the natural mummification process and the specific environments it happens:

mummiesoftheworld.com/mummy-sciences/

howstuffworks.com/mummy.htm

zoology.ubc.ca/bio1/BogWeb/StuRep03/Mummy_Coelho.htm

If you are really interested in the subject I would recommend you to look into books of mortuary sciences where the process of decomposition is explained so you can have a better understand ing of what is going on, as the internet on this tends to be general (let’s face it mortuary sciences can be gross). But as you can see with mummification the decomposition process does starts but given specific environmental circumstances: extreme cold, bogs, sand, dry environment, etc., the process is inhibited or blog (the article on bogs makes a good explanation of how it happens in that environment) but in the cases of corrupted saints the environmental conditions are missing which is why is a miracle .
 
S_A_M said:
@marymary1975: thanks for the explanations, btw, can you give links for your explanations?
Click to expand...
I think this link may be a good idea for you to read

people.howstuffworks.com/incorruptible2.htm

It is a completely secular link, so no wonder says some cases are fraudulent but is a good read because despite claiming some fraud, from a secular/scientific point of view does recognize that there is no scientific explanation for st Catherine of bologna, st bernadette and st silvan.
 
endaman said:
What is the best example of an incorrupt saint that I can use as an example of a miracle? I think this would be good material to present to Atheists. Has there been much documented scientific work done on incorruptible Saints.

Thanks,
-EM
Click to expand...
There has been a huge amount of scientific work on st bernadette, st Rita de casia, and st Catherine of bologna. Just search on the internet for at bernadette I think her is one of the most studied cases.
 
In the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches, some dig up the body of the buried deceased with the view that if the body resembles the living and is whole, this is a bad sign. In one Greek Orthodox Church the body of the deceased is dug up, the skull is filled with wine & the faithful drink a sip. This is done to signify that all ill feelings and grudges once held by those who are still living on earth have forgiven the deceased. This is a practice restricted to parts of eastern Europe.
Code: 
    There is a rite of initiation into the Masonic Knights of Templar  that mimics this. I mention this to point out that Masonic Ritual is a mockery of those who adhere to this ritual of drinking out of a skull; so, no one may confuse the two.  One bears automatic excommunication if one becomes a Mason.   

   Sometimes natural processes keep the body from decaying.

  We are Western Rite of the 26 rites loyal to the Holy See of Peter, the Pope.  If the Church declares something concerning important matters of  our Catholic Faith we are obliged to listen and be obedient.

   The incorrupt bodies of  Saints declared by the Roman Catholic Church,  I believe are miracles.
 
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