Does Invalid marriage speed up current annulment?

[carriedeberry]

Currently going thru the annulment process to be remarried, and wondering about the processing time. I only have to get a defect of form done by for my previous marriage, however even though my fiance isn’t Catholic, his former marriage needs annulled.

Here’s my question, his ex wife was married once before him to a Catholic inside of the church. (She married a Catholic, she wasn’t Catholic). When she remarried my fiance she never had an annulment, does that invalidate their marriage? I’m thinking because the marriage was blessed by the church, that she was not free to remarry him. I’m hoping maybe this will speed the process up for us… Does it make any difference? Maybe it doesn’t matter since she wasnt the Catholic?

 

[1ke]

his ex wife was married once before him to a Catholic inside of the church. (She married a Catholic, she wasn’t Catholic). When she remarried my fiance she never had an annulment, does that invalidate their marriage?

This would be called a Ligamen case, prior bond.

I’m hoping maybe this will speed the process up for us… Does it make any difference? Maybe it doesn’t matter since she wasnt the Catholic?

If he can provide all of the needed documents for the Ligamen case, then yes it should be faster than a tribunal nullity case.

He needs to discuss all this with the pastor.

 

[carriedeberry]

My priest is also our diocese Cannon lawyer… But we’re working together through email since he’s currently in Rome studying… I’m sure he’ll tell me exactly how her marriage will effect the overall process, but I’m impatient and just thought someone may have an idea on here. I’m about to ask him “Hey, since you’re already in Rome, could you just run my paperwork over to the Vatican real quick??”

 

[otjm]

Given the past track record of the Rota, you might want to rethink that request… maybe they have improved, but I wouldn’t want to bet my lunch on it (in spite of the fact that I need to lose some weight).

It seems you are in good hands. God bless on your journey forward.

 

[Usagi]

An invalid prior marriage is, by definition, necessary for said marriage to be annulled.

But yes, the more obviously invalid the previous marriage is, the faster the process can go. “This person was demonstrably already married” is way easier to judge than “This person didn’t really understand the permanence of marriage at the time of the earlier wedding” or whatever.

 

[carriedeberry]

I was just joking about taking the papers straight to the Vatican lol. I would encourage you to continue blossoming in your ministry, be it a layperson or priest. Was Jesus not 12 when he began teaching in the synagogue? I appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut/thoughts and I won’t discredit you based on your age

 

[Roseeurekacross]

May I remind people yet again of #11 rule of CAF FAQ.

#11. Do not offer or solicit medical, psychiatric, or legal advice. Do not give advice that is contrary to civil law. Do not give advice to a minor that opposes the instruction of a parent or legal guardian. All such discussions should be directed to the proper authorities: parents, guardians, therapists, parish priests, or primary care providers.

Legal advice

Dan is a Canon lawyer, and as such, is qualified as an authority. The rest of us are not.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Per civil law, best you ask CA what it means.

Let’s allow Dan to decide which advice is appropriate.

 

[acanonlawyer]

Dan is a Canon lawyer, and as such, is qualified as an authority. The rest of us are not.

… Well, if I was the only one talking about canon law around here, along with the other canon lawyer I know of who is a member here, that wouldn’t be much fun. I might as well just go back to my canon lawyer internet … group … thing.

Dan

 

[carriedeberry]

And so, what I learned today was that since my fiance’s ex wife’s first husband filled for an annulment THREE YEARS after she married my fiance, that makes her first marriage invalid, thus she was free to marry my fiance. How can a marriage that was entered into while she was still bonded to her first husband magically be made valid 2 years after the fact? I’m so done with this red tape, make up rules as we go crap. I’m extremely frustrated and am just going to have a civil marriage… It’s just completely ridiculous to me.

Thanks for everyone who took the time to give their (name removed by moderator)ut!

 

[1ke]

How can a marriage that was entered into while she was still bonded to her first husband magically be made valid 2 years after the fact?

If her first marriage is invalid, as evidenced by the declaration of nullity, then she was not in fact “bonded to” anyone.

I’m so done with this red tape, make up rules as we go crap

It’s obvious you are frustrated, but no one is making up rules as they go along. This is why investigations take time— all the facts are relevant. Ligamen is not an option, so the full nullity process should be continued.

I’m extremely frustrated and am just going to have a civil marriage

So you will cut yourself off from the sacramental life? That seems a rather short sighted approach. This is grave matter against the sixth commandment.

I urge you not marry civilly, your fiancé is not free to marry.

 

[carriedeberry]

Correct, that seemed logical to me. Her first marriage WAS valid when they married, remained valid when she entered into a new marriage with my fiance, and was only nullified when her ex husband went through the annulment process so that he could remarry.

It’s all stupid to me really, and I hardly doubt God gives 2 cents about it. I was only attempting this annulment process for sake of my dad partaking in the wedding. I’m not a practicing Catholic and we were not going to be married “in” the church (building) anyway. We were always going to have our ceremony in a non denominational church, and just have the marriage blessed by the church to make everyone involved happy. That can still happen, but I’m not waiting another year+. My more pressing issue is rectifying our “live in” relationship before our children… Not this musical game of chairs on who’s free to marry who.

I guess where we stand now is my fiance will be given a Petrine Privilege since he’s never been baptised.

I’m just super frustrated.

 

[Elf01]

Sounds to me like it should be invalid due to lack of form, unless they convalidated after the annulment.

 

[Gorgias]

She’s a lapsed Catholic, and they have no desire even to marry in the Church. I’m thinking that the chances that he wants to become Catholic are pretty slim…

 

[Gorgias]

Sounds to me like it should be invalid due to lack of form, unless they convalidated after the annulment.

Lack of form? How do you figure? The OP’s fiance’s ex-wife and first husband were married in Church (proper form), and then (presumably) the ex-wife and the OP’s fiance were married not in Church (after all, neither she nor the OP’s fiance is Catholic).

 

[Elf01]

Here’s my question, his ex wife was married once before him to a Catholic inside of the church. (She married a Catholic, she wasn’t Catholic). When she remarried my fiance she never had an annulment, does that invalidate their marriage? I’m thinking because the marriage was blessed by the church, that she was not free to remarry him. I’m hoping maybe this will speed the process up for us… Does it make any difference? Maybe it doesn’t matter since she wasnt the Catholic?

I had assumed the fiance’s ex was Catholic. That does change it.

 

[Gorgias]

I’m not a practicing Catholic and we were not going to be married “in” the church (building) anyway. We were always going to have our ceremony in a non denominational church, and just have the marriage blessed by the church to make everyone involved happy.

@carriedeberry, you’re saying this in a way that makes it sound like you were going to have two ceremonies: first, in a non-denominational church with a Protestant minister, and then second, a ‘blessing’ in a Catholic church? Am I reading you correctly?

If so, then please know that this isn’t necessary. You can get married “in the Church” without getting married “in a Catholic church (building)” by requesting a dispensation from the form of matrimony (since you’re Catholic but your fiance is unbaptized). That way, your marriage is valid from the very start.

(However, it sounds like that’s not the direction you’re going to attempt, since it sounds like you two are just going to go ahead and get married civilly, outside the Church. (That would mean that a separate ceremony could be necessary.)

It’s all stupid to me really, and I hardly doubt God gives 2 cents about it. I was only attempting this annulment process for sake of my dad partaking in the wedding.

OK, so… just to be fair: you were going through the process not because you believe in what the Church says about marriage, but just because you wanted to cross the T’s and dot the I’s for your dad’s sake… and then you’re frustrated because the Church is trying to cross the T’s and dot the I’s?

 

[carriedeberry]

Yep lol, that’s pretty much where the frustration comes from. I can see holding me to Cannon standards, some I’m there Catholic, but NOBODY else except my fiance’s ex wife’s ex husband is Catholic. But it is what it is. She’s since remarried, her ex is remarried, but my fiance is stuck in limbo. As for him becoming Catholic, it would never happen. This process has sealed the deal on that… If there was even an inkling in him to.

I’m not a practicing Catholic in the sense that I go to mass EVERY Sunday. I go once in awhile and my children are in Catholic Schooling, and have received the sacraments. But I won’t go off on that tangent since it isn’t relevant.

 

[carriedeberry]

Actually I requested a dispensation initially from the parish priest, but
he suggested the latter which I described above because the dispensation
could take time. I’m beginning to wonder though how much he really knows…
He gave me quite a bit of misinformation I’m beginning to see. He’s
newly ordained and I’m thinking he may need a brush up

 

[acanonlawyer]

All I can say is that, based on the information I see, I can understand why a “prior bond” case will not be possible. All the theory and legal principles aside (all of which I accept), I can also understand the OP’s confusion and frustration. This sort of legal/procedural maze can occasionally lead to a dead end. I trust, however, that everyone involved at the local tribunal/parish are doing their best to uphold and apply Catholic principles as well as aid the OP in making a Catholic marriage possible. I know that tribunal staff never like to have to be the bearer of this kind of bad news. Sometimes, though, new information makes previous advice/decisions obsolete and so the “bad news” is unavoidable. That’s apparently what happened here.

To the OP: you (and your intended husband) are not alone in having to deal with an unexpected roadblock. Hang in there. I hope and pray that you both find that these delays and difficulties will make your Catholic wedding/marriage more meaningful.

Dan