Does Islam accept religious toleration?

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I know that some Muslim countries are more tolerant of other religions than others. Some may follow strict Islamic law while other do not. But I thought that Islam officially taught that non-Muslims must either convert, pay a special tax, or be warred against. If a country that has an Islamic majority does allow a greater degree of toleration for other religions, is that acceptable or is it considered a violation of Islamic law?

What about Muslims who live in pluralistic societies such as in Europe or America? Is it acceptable for them to conform to the laws of a secular government?
 
Jim after Ferdinand and Isabela took Granada in 1492,not only Muslims or Moriscos who would live Spain only later in 1609 were exiled

But also the Jews suffered expulsion in 1492!
And guess a country that banned Jews before Spain?
Christian Portugal?
Wao,catholic christian Portugal
And who accepted Jews?
Sweden not untill 1746 when first Jews were permited to setlle
Muslim Ottoman Empire !!!

There are lot more examples,but i dont mind saying more cases
So,conform in whose countries,?
Or you really think that All of Europe is Christian?
Maybe in Vatican City 😉 not in other places
 
Jim after Ferdinand and Isabela took Granada in 1492,not only Muslims or Moriscos who would live Spain only later in 1609 wereexiled

But also the Jews suffered expulsio 1492!
And guess a country that banned Jews before Spain?
Christian Portugal?
Wao,catholic christian Portugal
And who accepted Jews?
Sweden not untill 1746 when first Jews were permited to setlle
Muslim Ottoman Empire

There are lot more examples,but i dont mind saying more cases
So,conform in whose countries,?
Or you really think that All of Europe is Christian?
Maybe in Vatican City 😉 not in other places
 
I was not suggesting that religious intolerance was ever a one-sided issue. There are many instances of religious intolerance throughout history, in many countries.

I was asking about the present situation, and also whether tolerance or non-tolerance is considered a matter of doctrine or a matter of practice.

Take a country like the United States, Britain, Mexico, or Canada. Muslim citizens of those countries are naturally subject to that particular country’s legal system. What if it conflicts with sharia law? Does that pose a problem or not?
 
Apparently no one is going to answer my question.

I can always look it up myself, but I wanted the opinions of muslims on this forum.

Does Islamic doctrine permit religious tolerance or not at the present time?
 
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JimG:
Apparently no one is going to answer my question.
I can always look it up myself, but I wanted the opinions of muslims on this forum. Does Islamic doctrine permit religious tolerance or not at the present time?
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I was going to post earlier but been so busy. Anyhoo, this is same old song issue in the muslim country. You cant rely on them for an answer though. tolerance is not their cup of tea. If they dont have religious tolerance between themselves let alone with other religions.

Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ "
**
Qur’an 9:17 “The disbelievers have no right to visit the mosques of Allah while bearing witnessagainst their own souls to infidelity. These it is whose doings are in vain, and in the fire shall they abide. Only he shall visit the mosques of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day, and keeps up devotional obligations, pays the zakat, and fears none but Allah.”
 
Asking non-Muslims to pay a “special tax” was hardly very “intolerant” in the 7th century. The neighboring societies (chiefly the Roman/Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire) were hardly democratic and taxed ordinary citizens heavily anyway. Muslims had and have to pay a “tax” of their own–the “zakat” which is one of the Five Pillars of Islam. I believe the tax on “infidels” was higher. But again, that was hardly abnormal by the standards of that time.

I recognize that that’s not what you’re asking. You’re asking if this policy–which was unquestionably quite gentle by the standards of the 7th century–must be implemented in the 21st. And obviously only Muslims can answer that. Bear in mind that decisions are made in Sunni Islam through a long process of reaching consensus. On a lot of these issues it seems to me that Muslims simply have not reached consensus yet. The problem for us non-Muslims, of course, is that meanwhile extremists like Bin Laden can claim to represent the true interpretation of Islam, and some Muslims will follow them.

Edwin
 
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Contarini:
Bear in mind that decisions are made in Sunni Islam through a long process of reaching consensus. On a lot of these issues it seems to me that Muslims simply have not reached consensus yet. The problem for us non-Muslims, of course, is that meanwhile extremists like Bin Laden can claim to represent the true interpretation of Islam, and some Muslims will follow them. Edwin
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Well, it does seem that in some Islamic countries, religious tolerance is practiced. And I often get the impression that this is often a non-issue to many if not most ordinary muslims; just as most non-Catholics have no interest in whether or not Catholics follow Canon law, just as long as we don’t impose it on society at large. But I do worry that extremist Islamists will try to convince ordinary muslims that a moderate non-exclusionary government cannot exist. That’s bad news in a global society.
 
This is he year of our Lord 2005.So lets talk about now ! Name those Muslim countries that are tolerant of christianty,please.As far as I know Turkey is the only one and thats because it is officialy secularist. None match western standards of tolertion of Islam.
 
Islam tolerates Christians under vicious conditions. The Christians must agree that they are defeated, they must pay a special “tax” ie. protection money, they may not bear arms, they may not evangelize, they must defer to Muslims, basically the term is dihmmi. Even today Christians are second class citizens who are more or less oppressed or persecuted. I talked to some Palestinian Arab Christians who said they would prefer Israeli rule, but would only say it privately when no Muslims were around. They were afraid. Yet Muslims demand toleration and equality in Western countries that they will never grant to us. I suggest we treat them as they do Christians, see how they like it. That’s what they did in Spain post 1492 and the Muslims rebeled and were expelled. Sauce for the goose…
 
No one said that they would like being treated as dhimmis. On the other hand, being a dhimmi is not that different from being a regular old subject of most governments throughout history . . . .

I’m curious as to your source for the claim that Muslims in Spain revolted *after *the initial conquest and *before *being expelled. I’m not saying that this is false, just that I’ve never heard it before.

Is dhimmitude vicious? I think that’s a strong word, and I’d keep it for things like torture and murder and chattel slavery. It’s not as good as being a citizen of a free society, no. That shouldn’t be controversial.

Edwin
 
Uh being a short step above slave doesn’t sound appealing to me. Maybe you like having your human rights violated, but I tend to frown on it. Just the other day 2 churches were burned in Pakistan and 3 girls beheaded in Indonesia. Yep, the joys of dhimmitude abound. Come on, you would never want to live as a dhimmi.

After the reconquista they didn’t expell the Muslims immediately. There were revolts. The Spanish feared a 5th column. Sounds like today doesn’t it? So they gave them a choice, convert or leave. Many converted and the others left. If that sounds harsh talk to the Armenians about their experiences under Islamic rule. Or go to persecution.org and see how Christians fare in places like Sudan. It’s time for us to name persecution when we see it.
 
Year is of your lord,not mine
Through mortal eyes years are unimportant,to some it might have some meaning,to others those are just shallow promises!

You said today is day of your lord and Muslims arent civilized and intollerant

Let me tell you something
Was Toma De Torquemada Muslim?
Was Richard the LionHeart Muslim?
Were Mongols Muslims that killed 30 000 Muslims in Baghdad after they torched him and kill most of population in 1258
Biggest city of world then
Were Portuguese tolerant when they expelled Jews before Spain,or should i say Aragon and Catalonia,pre 1492

Sweden accepted Jews only in 1746,like most of western Europe

Were Filipinos tolerant when they came and killed Muslims who were there for 500 years resisting Spaniards,but to some ,maybe they should have been killed

In Most of Muslim countries there are plenty of Christian President,and Prime Ministers today

Burkina Faso has Christian president
Senegal had Christian president for over 25 years, in a country which is 95% Muslim
Tanzania had christian president for over 3 decades,majority of population are Muslims
Is Olesogun Obasanjo a Muslim?
President of Nigeria,Muslim country
in 1991 census showed Muslims were 53% ,christians rioted
And now religious affilation is no longer there

In 1967 Tanzania again census showed clear muslim majority
Again Christian rebeled and disputed figures,even though everything was legal
Thats when they took a military strike and took control of country
Was Biafra a Christian country or Muslim?

Somebody forgot to tell somebody that souther part of so called Thailand was incorporated into Thailand only in 1906 by Brits

And before that time,there were no rebelions or killing!
Wonder why?
Beslan is crime,but somebody forgot to tell Chechens just to watch being occupied and having their towns destroyed
Maybe its all good,Muslims will just say big WELCOME SIGN,and sign the songs

Dont get me wrong
i dont care about Osama, hes really for me crazy rich spoiled guy
Or that Zawahiri dude
Its not about Al Queda or Osama
Its more global :rolleyes:

i pity you if you didnt know that,please tell me im a liar,cause im not
World biggest catholic cathedral is not in a christian country
No its in Yamasoukro Ivory Coast where Muslims are 45%.and in Vatican city there are not more 1 Muslim,and he must be hired help,scrubing toilets and such

Tell me was there a Muslim President in Usa?
Well Muslims are tinority minority here,but so are christians Catholics in Senegal
Is there any Muslim senator per say in Usa?
Out of 100,name me one?
You cant because it doesnt exist
How many people in power Muslim are in Uk,or France?

None

Should i give you recently list of slaughters commited by christiand and expulsion in last 50 years

Since i did mention crusades and such

Or perhaps Muslims arent guilty,maybe its Fox news

Tamil tigers are blowing themself en masse,but nobody is ever mentioning a something like occupation of Palestine

Or maybe somebody isnt quoting words of famous crusaders

I will enter Meccah and il chew the bones of that dog Mohhamed
There were many harsher words,from popes who sat at their nice chair and send people overseas for some nice and peacefully crusades

And dont preach me about tolerance
When Turks took Istanbul or Constantinopol in1453 they didnt raise churches to the ground,like christians did to the mosques

Only handfull were transfered to Mosques and those now serve only as museum latest example Aya Sofia
In same town you have christian church ffrom 11 century

I wonder now,how many mosques pre 1492 period remained in Spain?

None!

:rolleyes:
 
Ps lets play fair game

Out of 100 senators and 435 House of Represantatives members

How many are Muslim?

Thats 535 or should i say electoral vote
I think Muslims are now 2% In Usa.in Michigan even more or some states,in others there are no Muslims

So,2 % of 100 is 2?
Is there 2 Muslim senators in Usa?
Out of 435 in a House,how many are Muslims
2% of that number is almost 9?
Ok,how many in the house are Muslims?
Is there adlist one out of that 435?
And how many governors are Muslims?

Some states have huge Muslim population
Like Michigan or New York,where majority of Muslims live
How many Muslims Governors?
Ok,one or none?

And then how many majors are Muslims
Chicago town with 10% of Muslims never had a muslim mayor
Or Dearborn
Or other towns

Wao :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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Statistics:
Ps lets play fair game

Out of 100 senators and 435 House of Represantatives members

How many are Muslim?

Thats 535 or should i say electoral vote
I think Muslims are now 2% In Usa.in Michigan even more or some states,in others there are no Muslims

So,2 % of 100 is 2?
Is there 2 Muslim senators in Usa?
Out of 435 in a House,how many are Muslims
2% of that number is almost 9?
Ok,how many in the house are Muslims?
Is there adlist one out of that 435?
And how many governors are Muslims?

Some states have huge Muslim population
Like Michigan or New York,where majority of Muslims live
How many Muslims Governors?
Ok,one or none?

And then how many majors are Muslims
Chicago town with 10% of Muslims never had a muslim mayor
Or Dearborn
Or other towns

Wao :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Mr. Statistic (PBUH) your comparision are irrelevant. It would seem to me that YOU are demanding kuffars to be fair to the chosen people of Allah. Can you provide statistics as to how many muslims are qualified to be governors, mayors, congress man and that these muslims APPLIED to be one or stood for election to be one BUT because they are muslims the people of the USA rejected them outright? The kuffars’ system is based on merit. One has to EARN their position not just because they are muslims! Muslims who migrate to escape the oppressions and the poverty in their “Dar-Al-Islam” should be grateful that their host country honour their rights to their religion as an individual but in society they must fight for their positions. It is not in the constitution that EVERY religion must have their represenrtative in congress, even Christianity.

Muslims MUST learn to EARN their respects and POSITION not demand them like you do!

Let me ask you back. How many houses of worship can you find in Saudi Arabia other than Islam? How many churches are burned down in Indonesia?
 
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Statistics:
Vatican city there are not more 1 Muslim,and he must be hired help,scrubing toilets and such
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I think this is a compliment to you muslim. christian cannot enter the ka’ba… maybe you are afraid if we found out whats the inside?.. Yeah!!!

Talking about how many portion muslim should have politically in non muslims country sounds absurd. Most of you are immigrants. You also treat non muslims the same way in muslim country by saying non muslims are immigrant like chinese or indian. The difference between muslim minority with the non muslim minority is that, muslim minority could cause violent but non muslim minority could become the victim/blacksheep even more. So, whether you are minority in non muslim country, you should be thankful. I’m not playing statistic, I am using my logic and I say what I see.
 
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JimG:
But I thought that Islam officially taught that non-Muslims must either convert, pay a special tax, or be warred against.
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this is in the case where an advancing muslim army comes to a people of another land. they will send messengers to that land to inform them of the army’s advance. they then have the choice, either a) accept islam, b) surrender without fight, live under muslim rule and protection (which is what the word dhimmah means) where they would be allowed to maintain and practice their religion and not forced to accept islam or c) fight - and in the case of fighting, there is a prohibition from prophet muhammad from killing women, children and religious figures like monks and rabbis, and non-combatants in general.
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JimG:
If a country that has an Islamic majority does allow a greater degree of toleration for other religions, is that acceptable or is it considered a violation of Islamic law?
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if the country was ruled by muslims, then religious tolerence - meaning not forcing non-muslims to accept islam - should be adhered to, as Allah says, “there is no compulsion in religion” (2:256). the reason non-muslim citizens of a muslim ruled state are called “ahl adh-dhimmah (the people of protection)” is because the jizyah they pay ensures the protection of their blood, their families, wealth and land. as for those non-muslims who reside in the muslim lands to study, work or conduct business of some sort (basically, equivalent to those who would be on a student or work visa), there is no jizyah for them - in fact, there are no taxes to be taken from them whatsoever.
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JimG:
What about Muslims who live in pluralistic societies such as in Europe or America? Is it acceptable for them to conform to the laws of a secular government?
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whoever from the muslims has chosen to live as citizens of a non-muslim country has basically agreed to abide by the laws of that land. and they are obligated to obey the laws of that land so long as they do not require that muslim to do something that is forbidden in islam - such as the law in france that bans girls from wearing the islamic hijaab in schools. it is forbidden for a girl/woman who has reached the age of menstruation to remove her hijaab (which is more than just the headscarf) in front of non-related men.
 
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