Does Islam accept religious toleration?

[manx]

jcaz:

Why? Because these people want to do one and only one thing…hate. Ironic huh…that they seem to be doing the very thing that these terrorists are doing.

Why can’t we just answer the request? Don’t forget that majority of the Muslim population are moderate. I think it is not right to equate an inquiring Muslim to a terrorist. The terrorists are the ones hijacking Islam and giving a hard time to the average Muslims.

 

[r.gonzales]

jcaz:

It will be amusing to read how these Muslim hating Catholics come forward with all kinds of explanations of these verses, and how they come forward with all kinds of excuses…

i’m guessing the first “excuse” will be: “those are from the old testament. we follow the new testament…”



makes you wonder why they even decided to include the old testament in the bible if they’re so willing to disown the laws contained within them.

 

[exoflare]

Those are from the old testament. We follow the new testament.

 

[Melanie01]

JimG:

Apparently no one is going to answer my question.

I can always look it up myself, but I wanted the opinions of muslims on this forum.

Does Islamic doctrine permit religious tolerance or not at the present time?

This is not a hard question. the short and long answer is NO.
The Maldives are Islamic. My cousin cannot attend any chrisitan service in the country and nor can her children be raised other than Muslim. Her husband is Muslim but pretty much in name only.

Try attending a Chrisitan service in any Muslim country…I will ring a nursing buddy who worked in Saudi to confirn my guess here.

Yes! I was correct, the authorities open all mail…no Xmas cards with any Christians symbols will be deilvered. Only private gatherings in private homes would happen. I truely doubt an ordained Catholic priest would be admitted into the country.

 

[manx]

JimG:

Does Islamic doctrine permit religious tolerance or not at the present time?

Based on my readings and long exposure with the Muslims, I can safely say that the religion permits tolerance with other faiths.

peace.

 

[exoflare]

manx:

Based on my readings and long exposure with the Muslims, I can safely say that the religion permits tolerance with other faiths.

peace.

LOL give it up, deen. I think William Shatner does a more convincing job.

 

[jcaz]

r.gonzales:

i’m guessing the first “excuse” will be: “those are from the old testament. we follow the new testament…”



makes you wonder why they even decided to include the old testament in the bible if they’re so willing to disown the laws contained within them.

Did you check out the post immediately after yours.


These guys are amazing. They spend all day and night searching the internet, hoping to find some new “bad” ayah about Islaam. Here, one person posts several verses from their Bible, several verses supposedly spoken by their God, and they dismiss them immediately as from the old testament.

Here’s Exoflare’s post right after you said what they would do.

exoflare:

Those are from the old testament. We follow the new testament.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Statistics:

Jim after Ferdinand and Isabela took Granada in 1492,not only Muslims or Moriscos who would live Spain only later in 1609 were exiled

But also the Jews suffered expulsion in 1492!
And guess a country that banned Jews before Spain?
Christian Portugal?
Wao,catholic christian Portugal
And who accepted Jews?
Sweden not untill 1746 when first Jews were permited to setlle
Muslim Ottoman Empire !!!

England expelled its Jews in 1290 - Oliver Cromwell (to his everlasting credit) invited Jews to England in 1650 IIRC​

There are lot more examples,but i dont mind saying more cases
So,conform in whose countries,?
Or you really think that All of Europe is Christian?
Maybe in Vatican City not in other places

Christianity has had its day, I think - not that any of this answers the question. ​

 

[exoflare]

Here’s Exoflare’s post right after you said what they would do.
[/quote]

You thought I was serious??!! LOL this is priceless. Please tell me you aren’t really this gullible…

 

[mjdonnelly]

Do you know the difference between Christianity and Judaeism?

Christianity is based on the NT, not the OT.

Stay on track with the thread.

 

[guestmuslim]

I agree with you CHING in your first line, maybe the word ” instinct” was not the right choice there, please replace it with the word “temptations”

Whenever I read something that is written by a muslim about Christianity or vice versa, I would go to trusted Christian sources and find out what they say about the same issue. This way I will be able make my personal opinion about the subject. A well known saying in Judicial systems, “when a guy comes to you saying that a bad guy has poked his eye, don’t make your judgment until you hear from that allegedly bad guy, maybe he lost both eyes”.

But don’t go searching with the attitude “ I am gonna get these guys, I know they are lying, I will write a book listing all the flaws in their claims, “ That’s not the right attitude to find the truth.

In fact that’s why I came to this website. I was searching on an issue that I have read when this forum came up in the search results.

Finally I would like to leave you with this idea:
Religion is not just a way to love each other, it is something much more than that, it is a private life system, a management system, a political system, a judicial system, a military system, a social system etc. It is every thing that humans need to live in a loving, healthy, civilized, and well organized world. That’s what I think religion is.

The lines below are for CHIN

---

Using the term HATE VERSUS just tells me what kind of a source you got this information from. Congratulations, you are half way to the truth, you need to go back and see what Islamic scholars say about them. Look for the detailed explanations of these versus, when they apply, to whom they apply, who should apply them.

 

[Ching_PBUH]

manx:

gee! since when did you learn to quote out of context? do you want the Muslims to do the same to our Bible?

Since when did I learn to do that? Well, since 9/11, Bali, Beslan, 7/7, Bali… Amazingly after I realised that, I said “Aha! … Bingo!” What they did in the above unfortunate incidents was to follow in the foot-step of The Most Perfect and Last Prophet … How could they be wrong!

There is little or no context in the Quran . It comes in numbers and repeated all over the book unlike the NT which preaches in parables. The NT Chapters are narration, like a story, it is a story!

Allah jumps here and there in the Quran by saying: "And remember when We said,“Blah…blah…blah…”

Maria_James, Ma’am!

What stopped you from quoting the rest of the those OT verses? There ARE more than that!

BTW can you name or provide a link to any real incident where ANY ONE of those OT verses were actually carried out BY CHRISTIANS in the last 500 years?

After that you can go on researching the OT and quote and quote and quote till the CPU internal battery of your computer goes blacks out!

manx:

Christian extremists like Jim Jones and David Koresh made evil mistakes in misinterpreting the Bible. Islamic extremists are doing the same but they surely don’t represent the whole Muslim community.

I am afraid there is a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between the two dude … In fact there are 2 main differences:

1. As for Rev. Jim Jones, David Koresh, KKK, … etc their domain were ONLY THOSE around them, in THAT country, very specific.
   Al-Qaeda’s domain, for instance, is THE ENTIRE WORLD of NON-BELIEVERS.
2. Jim Jones, David Koresh, KKK are dead and gone… societies from all ends of the earth CONDEMNED them. They were out-lawed head on.

On the contrary, there are hundreds of Islamic cults in Pakistan alone. We have international cults like Jemaah Islamiah based in South East Asia, Al-Qaeda, Islamic Brotherhood … and what do muslims think of them … don’t ask me … they cheer them!!!

What do the International Islamic Community do about them? Nothing!

 

[r.gonzales]

Ching_PBUH:

There is little or no context in the Quran . It comes in numbers and repeated all over the book unlike the NT which preaches in parables.

this statement alone proves just how ignorant some people are with respect to islam, its revealed book and the history behind them both.

it’s no real surprise how the ones who know the least about islam, the Quran and the prophet who brought them both to mankind are often the most hateful and vocal against them. as the saying goes, “the empty vessels make the most noise.”

 

[Booklover]

r.gonzales:

i’m guessing the first “excuse” will be: “those are from the old testament. we follow the new testament…”



makes you wonder why they even decided to include the old testament in the bible if they’re so willing to disown the laws contained within them.

You’re always talking about everyone else being so ignorant of Islam, and yet this remark of yours and jcaz’ answer show exactly how little you and he know about the teachings of Christianity!

 

[Booklover]

Shadowcry:

Ching you do realize the same could be said for Christianity as being intolerant to unbelivers. In the roman times the pagans were called enemies of the church and persecuted, as were the Muslims in the crusaders epoch, the Hindus of Goa, the list goes on and on.

Can’t you see the difference though? Those things you quote happened A LONG TIME AGO, and these Muslim atrocities are HAPPENING NOW!

 

[manx]

Ching_PBUH:

On the contrary, there are hundreds of Islamic cults in Pakistan alone. We have international cults like Jemaah Islamiah based in South East Asia, Al-Qaeda, Islamic Brotherhood … and what do muslims think of them … don’t ask me … they cheer them!!!

What do the International Islamic Community do about them? Nothing!

Hold on Ching. I am just wondering why you made this conclusion. Did you really even try to check if the average Muslims did or say anything against the terrorists? Allow me to share the following facts:

1. American Muslim groups issued what was perhaps the first condemnation of the 9/11 attacks. The Council on American-Islamic Relations also published a full-page advertisement condemning the attacks.
2. Muslims have consistently condemned suicide bombings in the Middle East, attacks on the London transportation system, the bombing of hotels in Jordan, and many similar outrages.

3)Muslim scholars recently issued a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, condemning terrorism and religious extremism. (See:CAIR )

1. Muslim groups in Texas and Arizona held anti-terror rallies. In Jordan, huge demonstrations were held against the recent terror attacks.
2. Muslims in Lebanon demonstrated against the terrorist assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Harriri.

If you do some gooogling, I am sure you will find more.

 

[Booklover]

jcaz:

Thank you for taking the time in making this post. It will be amusing to read how these Muslim hating Catholics come forward with all kinds of explanations of these verses, and how they come forward with all kinds of excuses…but when a Muslim explains to them the so called “kill” verses in the Quraan, and explains that it was for a particular people at a particular time, those explanations are dismissed. Why? Because these people want to do one and only one thing…hate. Ironic huh…that they seem to be doing the very thing that these terrorists are doing.

Do you love the infidels? Do you love anyone who does not accept Islam? You say that we hate Muslims. It’s not Muslims we hate, it’s Islam! Ex-Muslim Ali Sina calls Islam the perfect religion of hate.

"Muhammad succeeded also because he appeared among the most ignorant, the most superstitious and the most barbarous people. The qualities that he needed to bolster his marauding religion were all present among his early followers and later were imposed on others who fell prey to his cult. Chauvinism, bigotry, haughtiness, arrogance, megalomania, stupidity, greed, lust for sex, disrespect for life and other ignoble qualities such as these, that are the hallmark of Islam were already present as the materia prima in the Arabia where Muhammad launched his prophetic career. All he had to do was to invent a big lie and add some intolerance and some violence to create the most perfect religion of hate.

faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina40612.htm

I for one don’t care what any of you believes as long as your beliefs don’t threaten anybody else’s, but that is exactly what Islam does! It wants to destroy all other religions and force the world to submit to Islam and its inhuman laws.

By the way, have you seen any of us strap a bomb to ourselves and blow anyone up?

 

[r.gonzales]

Ching_PBUH:

On the contrary, there are hundreds of Islamic cults in Pakistan alone. We have international cults like Jemaah Islamiah based in South East Asia, Al-Qaeda, Islamic Brotherhood … and what do muslims think of them … don’t ask me … they cheer them!!!

What do the International Islamic Community do about them? Nothing!

hundreds? that’s only three you’ve listed - all of which are upon deviant understandings and beliefs contrary to the teachings of islam. jam’iyyah al-islamiyyah is a group influenced by the teachings of abul-a’laa al-mawdoodee, whose teachings influenced sayyid qutb, whose teachings influenced the likes of al-qaa’idah and ikhwaan al-muslimoon (the islamic brotherhood). all these groups are upon the understanding of the deviant sect that appeared during the end of the time of prophet muhammad’s companions, the khawaarij (the kharijites).

as for what the international islamic community is trying to do about them, those upon the true understanding and teachings of islam are trying to educate the people about the deviant beliefs of these people - it’s just sad that their calls and warnings fall upon deaf ears.

 

[manx]

Booklover:

By the way, have you seen any of us strap a bomb to ourselves and blow anyone up?

I read the following from Islamicity . You might not find the article anymore but here’s what the writer said:

*"Robert Pape in his book, “Dying to Win — The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism,” shows that between 1982 and 1986, 71 percent of the Lebanese suicide attackers were Christians and 21 percent Communists/Socialists. " * - Victor Begg, Detroit Free Press, Stop maligning Islam

It’s sad that you have condemned the whole religion because of the actions of those who DOES NOT represent the 1.3 billion faithful.

 

[cute2904]

Ching_PBUH may speak strong about it. But it is the fact right now in our beloved world. No matter how hard muslims would defend their position. The fact speaking other way around. They believe Quran tell them to do so. It is not hard to find verse per verse about violent. I see with my own naked eyes and hear with my own naked ears what the terrorists say on the televion… with laughing… happy after killing the infidels (bali I) because they say non muslims deserve to die for no reason, because they do not believe in allah and his messenger. One of the executors of bali bombing II, taping himself before he blown up himself in a restaurant in Bali. He says after death he would be very happy in paradise so family and parents should not be worried anymore. He said this is the right way to please allah since allah has commanded the muslims to kill the infidel wherever they find them and take them as their enemies… I really have no idea what is the basic motives behind these terrible actions. Could it be cause Islam does not accept religious tolerance?..

Many Islamic Moderate claims that this kind of actions are not reflecting the true Islam. If that so, then why no islamic moderate groups, get to gether, have a talk with this terrorists (which consist from many many small groups around the world) tell them this is not the right way. We are talking about international terrorism. They are not only one. They are everywhere. They could blow your body up into piece without even you realize no matter you are. There is no single place that is safe anymore than your own house! They have made our lives insecure. They damage the world’s future. They are threat to humanity. We should stick together one voice against this brutality. Terrorism few years back only became united states enemies. But now… terrorism has become world’s enemy. Hopefully more people realize how danger it could be…