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robwar
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That’s interesting because current Sharia law in Islamic countries do lower the age of marriage to nine based on the Mohammed’s example. Even when some of these countries under pressure from the west try to raise the age of marriage to what you are saying, there are riots and protests and condemnations over that. Mohammed also married his daughter-in-law after seeing her half naked and his uncontrollable desire for her. He got permission from Allah to marry her, forced the divorce from his adopted son and then unadopted him to cover it all up. This also set the presidence in Sharia law which basically doesn’t recognize adoption.
Based on how he lived his life and an answer to Op’s question, it doesn’t make sense.
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robwar
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Hi Tony, I have a question. I do understand that Bahai does stem from Islam but I also understand that you would be considered an apostate from the Shia and Sunni Islam. I even think in some Islamic countries, Bahai is illegal and you are persecuted. I’m not trying to attack your sincere beliefs here but need a clarification.I think Islam makes perfect sense. To me it is the clarification and unfolding of the Words of Christ, the next necessary step in the Spiritual Evolution of Man in His quest for the Love of God.
Christ had cemented for all time a Personal relationship with God and showed us all how it is so. Muhammad showed us all how we can use this personal Relationship and build it into a Nation of Unity.
The natural Progression was How to move from Nation Building to be World Citizens. This as promised in the Bible was delivered by the Message of Baha’u’llah. All the Foundations for Faiths and Nations to become united have been given.
It is now up to us to implement this action, it is some task, please God may Ye achieve it.
God bless all and Regards - Tony
thanks
peace
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robwar
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with all do respect, islam is not at all a simplified Christianity. Islam denies the divinity of Christ as the Son of God as well as His death and resurrection. While Mohammed may have been influenced by splinter groups of nestorian Chrisitians in the area as well as Judiaism, it is in no way a simple Christianity. The people of the book which include Christians and Jews are heavily attacked and persecuted in Islamic Countries. The basic question of the thread is kinda a poor one because what does it mean to “make Sense”?
To the followers of Islam, yes it is going to make sense and on the surface, it is a simple religion and has five pillars to practice. To the people concerned about what is it’s real fruits in following this prophet and what Islamic countries are like to women, children and those who don’t believe in it, it doesn’t make sense at all.
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Techno2000
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robwar
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There is no truth to say Christianity was spread by violence and war. It’s one thing to say we need to be respectful of another religion but looking at the increased violence to Christians, Jews and non-Muslims in Islamic countries, any free-thinking person ought to scratch their head and say what’s wrong with this picture. The treatment of all women in Islamic countries ought to be a concern here. Talking about these things should be done and they shouldn’t be swept under the carpet in the name of “lets all just get along”.
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IgnatianPhilo
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There is some truth to the claim that certain forms of Christianity persevered because of government sanction. It might have been a rather different world if Emperor Theodosius or Emperor Justinian did not favour orthodox Christianity. That however is not to say the persecution by these emperors or other governmental figures was sanctioned by Christianity, clearly it was not.
The difference between Islam and Christianity, is that Islam right from the start and the example of their prophet, has sought to expand and conquer the entire world. If Bahai or Muslims want to argue otherwise, both have to argue Islam was corrupted nearly immediately after.
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tonyfish58
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robwar - Thank you for the thoughtful question
I would explain the question like this. The same way that Christianity was further Revelation of the Old Testament, we believe that the Muslim Faith further Revelation of both the New and Old Testament and that the Baha’i Faith was further Revelation of the Koran, New Testament and Old Testament. We believe the Revelation of Baha’u’llah was the fulfillment promised by these Books.
It is to all these Books and Prophets we turn and not to current explanations and doctrines. We believe that we are able to look at these books with the Keys Given by Baha’u’llah which opens up the Sealed books as Daniel and Revelation Promised.
Yes Baha’is are still being persecuted as are people of other religions in some countries. This will not last, there is a set time to which mankind is heading and Justice will prevail. God is giving us a chance to see the injustice with our own eyes and hear with our own ears and to make fair judgement of the unity of religions. The warning in all the scriptures is plain and for all to see, lets hope and pray we learn quick!
God Bless and Regards Tony
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robwar
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Thanks Tony, I appreciate the simple answer and clarification. I have understood the Baha’is to be on the more peaceful side or stem from Islam. My understanding is that Baha’i are pretty severely persecuted as apostates from real Islam. I guess in keeping on topic of this thread and not getting any further off topic warnings, you would see Islam in making sense as you have branched from it.
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Matthew_Light
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Do you have any evidence for this accusation (please, no links to hate sites. If you have evidence to back up this attack on Islam please post it yourself.)
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robwar
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Yes, Robert Spencer has documented in his books about Islam.
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Matthew_Light
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Robert Spencer runs the hate site jihadwatch.org
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dronald
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Proof that Robert Spencer is hateful or inciting hate please?
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Matthew_Light
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Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti Defamation League both list Robert Spencer as a hate leader:
splcenter.org/get%20informed/intelligence%20files/profiles/Robert%20Spencer
adl.org/assets/pdf/civil-rights/stop-islamization-of-america-2013-1-11-v1.pdf
The UK government has also banned Spencer from travelling to that country because he is considered a hate purveyor.
independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/antiground-zero-mosque-campaigners-pamela-geller-and-robert-spencer-barred-from-entering-britain-to-speak-at-an-edl-rally-8675251.html
Finally, mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik cited Robert Spencer as one of the main inspirations behind his violence:
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018976/Norway-shooting-Anders-Behring-Breivik-inspired-Robert-Spencer-Unabomber.html
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marywarfield
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How is it a hate site? Reality is this morning a Jesuit
priest protecting starving Christians in Homs, Syria was
executed by those attempting to enforce sharia law.
This is just a FACT and it is also a fact that the
act was hate-filled.
This was reported by Catholic News Service. Does that
make CNS a “hate-site”?
It makes no sense to call the reporters of the hateful
act haters, does it?
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Matthew_Light
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Because the entire purpose of jihadwatch is to attack Islam, and spread fear of Islam and Muslims.
In the same way, I would characterize Jack Chick’s website as a hate site, at least as references the Catholic Faith.
The world has more than enough hatred. God does not want us to hate one another.
Of course Catholic News Service is not a hate site. And of course the people who murder others because of religion are acting from hatred.
That is why websites attacking people because of their religion are so pernicious. They serve the cause of hatred and fear, and cause and inspire violence (cf: Breivik)
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dronald
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And they do this without any source or citation of hateful remarks or beliefs. Nor do they cite anything said that incites violence in others.
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Matthew_Light
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If you go into the ADL document, it goes into great detail about Spencer’s activities (along with his co-author and long-time business partner Pamela Geller, who managed to blame the 69 teenage victims of Anders Breivik’s slaughter for their own deaths).
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robwar
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Hi Matthew, with all due respect to you and Tony, I am kinda confused on a couple things here. Baha’i is considered an apostate brake off from Islam. I don’t think you as Baha’i would be seen as authentic. I know that you recognize all faiths and religion and equality of all men and women but in keeping with the title “does it make sense”, I’m not sure if you and Tony’s defense of Islam is making sense considering your founder was persecuted himself and died in exile. I would think in keeping with the peaceful tenants of your faith that defending Islam which in the Koran has some pretty violent stuff in it is making sense. I do respect what you believe and practice and I think the both of you are on CAF to have cordial dialogue with other faiths. Now maybe in a look at Islam and it’s teaching there does need to be a honest discussion of it’s violence towards women, Christians, Jews, non-believers and even yourselves. I don’t think talking about these things and the way it is practiced in Islamic countries should be swept under the carpet. Sometimes, I think that talking about difficult issues in religion or even problems isn’t trying to be violent or mean to anyones sincerely held beliefs. Am I making sense to you?
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Servant19
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Dear friend
“O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good.” [Noble Quran 4:19]
“O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence Allah, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for Allah ever watches over you.” [Noble Quran 4:1]
“They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them.” [Noble Quran 2:187]
“And among His signs is this, that He has created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them; and He has put love and mercy between you. Verily in that are signs for those who reflect.” [Noble Quran 30:21]
Ponder on these sayings
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