Does Islam worship a "false god" or the same god differently?

[vgskipp]

God is good. God does not condone killing of innocent people in the name of religion. Islam as practiced by many Muslims does not condone all the terrible atrocities committed in the name of Islam. Where does all this hatred come from with all the killing? Only Muslims do this so why?

Only Muslims? really? how many commit and/or committed atrocities under the banner of Christianity? I can break it down into more specifics if needed. There are radicals in all religions. Many Muslims including religious leaders of Islam have come out condemning those you are referring to, there are more Muslims dying at the hands of those you are referring to than any other group.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

In my opinion yes, they worship a God wholly other than Christ jesus. This God is either non existent or a demon, either way it is false.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well, if it’s an agreement that everyone worships the God of Abraham, which it seems is a reached conclusion, perhaps a moment of clarity. Then we should talk about this God of Abraham and what it is everyone understands about this God, which in fact makes Him God.

As Christians this is often understood as Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. Maybe that’s too Christian, not sure. With due respect, certainly we can say God, is a God of perfection. So how is this perfection understood and identified, and how is it known, and how does it incite man?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Well, if it’s an agreement that everyone worships the God of Abraham, which it seems is a reached conclusion, perhaps a moment of clarity. Then we should talk about this God of Abraham and what it is everyone understands about this God, which in fact makes Him God.

As Christians this is often understood as Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. Maybe that’s too Christian, not sure. With due respect, certainly we can say God, is a God of perfection. So how is this perfection understood and identified, and how is it known, and how does it incite man?

Do we not understand the God of Abraham to be none other but the holy trinity? Muslims deny this, thus seem to have a different God.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

The Jews are worshipping the same God as Christians (and Muslims also) but the Jews do not recognize Jesus as more than a holy man. They don’t believe in the Trinity. They are still awaiting the Messiah.

The Muslim ‘Allah’ appears to be a bit of a cut and paste job that includes aspects of the Abrahamic Yaweh, but also Allah was the chief of the polytheist gods in the Ka’ba and THE SPECIAL DEITY OF THE QURAISH, THE ‘PROPHET’S’ TRIBE. The symbol of the crescent moon was used to denote ‘Hubal’, the chief god amongst the 360 ‘resident’ in the Ka’ba In the modern Hajj, there is still much that mimics the traditions of the polytheist pagan pilgrimages, including the kissing of the ‘Black Stone’ {most likely a meteor relic]. And like the Arab polytheists the Islamic calendar is based upon phases of the moon.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Do we not understand the God of Abraham to be none other but the holy trinity? Muslims deny this, thus seem to have a different God.

Muslims deny this without a comprehensive understanding of OT/NT, practically an impossible conversation on-line also. The denial isn’t out of knowledge. its out of a preconceived notion that Mohammed is right and the Bible is wrong. When you then enter a conversation with a closed mind its impossible to see past denial. Its an I’m right and your wrong conversation. Minds closed! Yet if we can reach points of agreement, then we can proceed by those points being in agreement to fall back on.

On the other hand we too basically deny the Quran, we consider it heresy and corrupted in light of its plagiarized content. So in many regards this is a two way street.

We have two examples non the less to draw a comparison in understanding God. One being Mohammed, the other Jesus Christ. One the Bible the other the Quran. While at this point Jesus=God thus Trinity is not understood. Surely there’s no denial Jesus is real. Its a historical, documented fact He dies on the Cross, and its documented by historians outside of Christianity.

Another point if I’m not mistaken Islam disputes. How, I don’t fully know.

So the understanding of God, the God of Abraham should show some type of consistency. God doesn’t change, man changes and changes Gods plan to coincide with his will. That’s been the historic issue, man pimps God. Doesn’t work this way.

The Trinity can and has been explained throughout history, but it cannot be done without truly seeking God first. If you are closed minded about seeking God, how can you receive the knowledge to comprehend, you can’t. You develop a kind of idea, and not by Gods communicated Grace.

However, God is still the same God, still the same perfection, and still has the same perfect plan for mankind. He didn’t come up with a B-plan, the plan was always the same and perfect.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

Gary - Regarding Muslims having problems with the crucifixion of Jesus, it comes down to not accepting that ‘Allah’ would allow any great ‘Prophet’ to be treated in such a way.

There are several ‘explanations’ offered by Islamists as to how documentary ‘evidence’ contrary to their belief has come about - the most popular one being that since ‘Allah’ is the ‘best of decievers’ he simply decieved the Romans and Jews into thinking they had crucified Jesus. Yet another ‘explanation’ is that someone such as Simon of Cyrene was made to look the spitting image of Jesus and that he was crucified in Jesus’ place, and that the real Jesus was spirited away by His followers.

“Curiouser and curiouser”, as Alice said in Wonderland.

 

[Holly3278]

They worship the same God as us but in a different way.

**841 **The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/841.htm

 

[GaryTaylor]

Yet the recorded history of Christs humanity ends at that Cross historically. How is it Jesus was hidden away and we have no indication of this historically either.

Yet when we view all the prophets, all of them were disbelieved, ignored, mocked, rejected, and laughed at. Yet they all point to that path of the God of Abraham. That can’t be denied since through time tis a re-occurring fact.

I have heard the story of a fake Jesus etc. Its speculation which has no basis in reality. We have several accounts both Christian and non Christian. The preponderance of evidence indicates this to be true. The burden of proof resides with those who dispute history. The same history which by large is also lacking in regards to Islam, Mohammed and the Quran.

Seems to me its a throw it up and see what sticks kind of plan. Jesus Christ existed for sure, and they would not have crucified Him had He not claimed to be God.

What we do not have is a single account of one muslim who indeed knew Jesus Christ. Nor is there any factual reality that he was Arab, very much on the contrary since the DNA proves 1st century Jewish from the shroud of Turin.

 

[MartinJordan]

What we do not have is a single account of one muslim who indeed knew Jesus Christ. Nor is there any factual reality that he was Arab, very much on the contrary since the DNA proves 1st century Jewish from the shroud of Turin.

How could any Muslim (and let’s be frank here…who takes Mohammed as THE prophet of God) know Jesus Christ?

It is said by Muslims that Christians only have conjecture that Jesus was Crucified and yet there is no proof of any early “Muslim” writing (from the time of the Councils back in 4th century) that hint of Ishmaelite (of whom Mohammed takes his lineage from) ever knew of Jesus of Nazareth or is there?

MJ

 

[GaryTaylor]

How could any Muslim (and let’s be frank here…who takes Mohammed as THE prophet of God) know Jesus Christ?

It is said by Muslims that Christians only have conjecture that Jesus was Crucified and yet there is no proof of any early “Muslim” writing (from the time of the Councils back in 4th century) that hint of Ishmaelite (of whom Mohammed takes his lineage from) ever knew of Jesus of Nazareth or is there?

MJ

If you seek God always, you will know who God is regardless of what physical limitations are placed on us with learned behavior, or spiritual if that be the case. Everyone is here by Gods Grace, either you are cooperating with it or working to distinguish this by worldly adaption. If we are talking the God of Abraham than we can add those 10-commandments in the equation and creation? Certainly we all take this all to be spiritual perfection of God? The beginning is as good as place as any to begin. Perhaps there’s some confusion in this spiritual aspect also.

I could see much of this by seeing myself raised in a muslim family in the M-E, or Jewish, learned behavior can easily have you believe different things. God created man in His image, all are directly related and responsible for each other-Adam. Complicates the situation a bit.

Aggressive violence rationalized, its easy to see how one becomes desensitized, numbed and encapsulated. This isn’t Gods perfection though, nor can it be movement towards it.

As far as Jesus, the outside source alone is compelling. To stand on what historic evidence there is in Islam, then deny the possibility of the Cross, doesn’t seem that’s logical or an open minded path of understanding?

probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639/k.567/Ancient_Evidence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm

 

[rinnie]

God is good. God does not condone killing of innocent people in the name of religion. Islam as practiced by many Muslims does not condone all the terrible atrocities committed in the name of Islam. Where does all this hatred come from with all the killing? Only Muslims do this so why?

Why is this thread getting so off the mark. The question is do Muslims worship a false god. If you agree with the teaching of the CCC and the RCC then you will agree that Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the same God. The One true God the God of Abraham.

Please again let me make myself clear, I believe they follow the TEACHING of a False Prophet.

If you would accuse Muslims of following a false teaching and false prophet I would have no argument with you.

But to accuse them of a TRUTH they do indeed have, and that is, the God they worship is not the one True God is not a true, If of course you agree with the Pope and the Catholic teaching.

I am not givng you my opinion here, I am quoting the CCC, as I have been stressing.

If you disagree with me, you disagree with the Catholic teaching.

 

[rinnie]

They worship the same God as us but in a different way.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/841.htm

I have continued throughout this thread Holly to stress this, But they continue to reject the teaching of the Church.

I have continued to try to show different ways protestants reject much of the true teaching of the RCC, but how we cannot accuse them of praying to a false god, but them I am accused of trying to derail.

 

[Cojuanco]

Do we not understand the God of Abraham to be none other but the holy trinity? Muslims deny this, thus seem to have a different God.

The Jews deny the Trinity; do they worship a different God than Christians?

To illustrate: picture analog television sets, all showing the CBS Evening News. The Catholic is like the television set receiving full reception, crystal clear images, perfect sound without interference. The Jews are like a TV set where the image more or less clear, but the sound doesn’t come through at all. The Muslims are like the television set where you can make out the newscaster, but there is visual interference and the sound isn’t that good. Now were they all watching the same program? Yes. But only one has the complete picture. So it is in comparing Catholicism and Chrostianity generally with the other Abrahamic religions.

 

[rinnie]

The answer to this is very simple. The false prophet presents a false God to his listeners and tells them that this deity is the God of Abraham. Just because Muhammad said that Allah is the God of Abraham doesn’t mean that he is. I personally believe that Muhammad was deceived by a demon, and that he, in turn, deceived his people. This has happened many times over the course of the history of religions; why is it so difficult to believe that it could have happened here?

If you want to discuss Protestants and the Eucharist, start a new thread. This thread is about Muhammad, Allah, and Islam.

Huh? Are you rejecting the teaching of Muhammad that Allah that the God of Abraham is the one true God because he is a false prophet then right?

So let me get this clear because Muhammad said it, its a lie?

 

[rinnie]

Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
2John 1:9

This is a true scripture. But what does this scripture have to do with Muslims worshipping a false god?

The CCC 237 states quite clear may I add that although they indeed have a limited understand of God does not mean they cannot indeed worship him.

The Catholic Church teaches the true meaning of the One true God and indeed teaches the true persons in One God.

But where does it say that God requires one to know a certain amount about him before they can worship him?

So what needs to be done here is a teaching of the Catholic Church that states that teaches that God puts many limits on people and has no mercy on those who worshp him although not in a perfect way as in the divinity of the Trinity cannot worship him with the only truth that their faith has revealed to them.

So as stated to imply that if someone has a limited understanding of God, as Abraham himself did, means the God of Abraham is a false god.

Because where in the O. T. was it clearly revealed to us that there is One God in 3 persons? It was Christ himself who revealed to us God as God the Father. Unless you can show us where the Jewish faith had knowledge of this, but just purely rejected it.

 

[rinnie]

How could any Muslim (and let’s be frank here…who takes Mohammed as THE prophet of God) know Jesus Christ?

It is said by Muslims that Christians only have conjecture that Jesus was Crucified and yet there is no proof of any early “Muslim” writing (from the time of the Councils back in 4th century) that hint of Ishmaelite (of whom Mohammed takes his lineage from) ever knew of Jesus of Nazareth or is there?

MJ

They can’t. Because Muhammad himself did not have the Grace to know God as the Son. But what does that have to do with them knowing God as the One God Almighty creator of heaven and earth?

 

[concretecamper]

rinnie:

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretecamper

You are correct. impossible to have it both ways. You cannot worship the Father without worshiping the Son. Soooooo…do Muslims worship the Son? If not, they cannot have it both ways.

And please do not incorrectly state Catholic teaching.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

Then please by all means correct me. Show me where my quoting the CCC incorrectly state Catholic teaching.

I already did previously…look at my earlier response to your CCC quote. It does no good to spread incorrect info based on an errant reading of the CCC. The CCC does not say that Muslims and Roman Catholics worship the same God.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Mickey]

In my opinion yes, they worship a God wholly other than Christ jesus. This God is either non existent or a demon, either way it is false.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.
1 John 2:23

I and the Father are one.
Jn 10:30

 

[rinnie]

I already did previously…look at my earlier response to your CCC quote. It does no good to spread incorrect info based on an errant reading of the CCC. The CCC does not say that Muslims and Roman Catholics worship the same God.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

Then explain to me how TOGETHER with US they adore the one merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

Now are you claiming there is more then One Merciful God?

And also how can they be included in the plan of Salvation without the acknowledgement of the Creator?