Does Islam worship a "false god" or the same god differently?

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DaveBj said:
sigh

I don’t know how many different ways I can say this. Let me try again.

I am not rejecting the teaching of anyone that the God of Abraham is the one true God. If Satan himself stood in front of me and said, “The God of Abraham is the one true God,” I would say, “Yes! Amen! That’s right!”

What I am rejecting is the belief that the deity “revealed” by Muhammad under the name Allah is the God of Abraham, for the reason that the God of Abraham (YHVH), as revealed in the Old Testament (for the time being, forget about the Holy Trinity or the Father’s begetting of the Son) and Allah, as revealed in the Qur’an, have conflicting characteristics.

Let me expand on that last phrase. If two different prophets talk about their deities, and one says, “God is A, B, and C,” and the other says, “God is D, E, and F,” then is possible that the two prophets could have different revelations of the same deity, like looking at the same mountain from two different directions. But if one prophet says, “God is A, B, and C,” and the other says, “God is D, E, F, and not-C,” then the characteristics are contradictory, and the two deities cannot be the same deity. This is what we have. The characteristics of YHVH, as revealed in the Old Testament, and the characteristics of Allah, as revealed in the Qur’an, are not just different; they are contradictory to the point that the two deities cannot be the same.

I believe that 1) Muhammad may have been deceived by a demon who revealed a false god to him, claiming that this was the God of Abraham, or 2) Muhammad was mentally disturbed and imagined that he was getting a revelation of the God of Abraham, or 3) Muhammad made the whole thing up and deceived his followers in order to pull them away from polytheism (which he did hate). I believe that Muslims sincerely believe that they are worshiping the God of Abraham. However, I also believe that they are sincerely wrong.
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What you are saying is that the teaching of of the Muslims is false. Where did I ever disagree with that.

I am saying that the God that Muslims pray to the God of Abraham is not a false GOD, Not that the teachings of Muhammad who claims he has the teachings of the One true God is false.

How else can I say this, How many differnt ways etc.

The question was do Muslims worship a false god? The answer is NO. They TOGETHER with us worship the one true God. Do they follow the teachings of the One True God, No. I never said they did.

Please go back to what I have written, It is exactly what I have said all along. I said that although they were deceived by Muhammad on the teaching does not make the one true God false. How many other ways can I say this.
 
To set things straight what you are saying, and others here is this. Because Muslims believe that Muhammad did have a true revelation from the One True God the God of Abraham and follow the teaching’s of Muhammad they pray to a false god. Right?
 
rinnie said:
To set things straight what you are saying, and others here is this. Because Muslims believe that Muhammad did have a true revelation from the One True God the God of Abraham and follow the teaching’s of Muhammad they pray to a false god. Right?
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I can agree with that. They have been taught that they worship the God of Abraham, and they believe that they are worshiping the God of Abraham, but they have been taught wrong from the beginning.
 
Muslims believe that Jesus was only one of many prophets. The Biblical verse " I am the way the truth and the life- NOBODY comes to the Father but by Me" says it all. They are deceived,but many are coming to the truth-unfortunately, it’s usually by Protestant denominations,who are much more vigilant in evangelizing than we are.
 
jakasaki said:
Not much explaination in the tafsir:

[116-117] They say “Allah has adopted a son.” Allah is above such things. As a matter of fact, whatever is in the heavens and on the earth belongs to Him and all are obedient to Him. He is the Creator of the heavens and the earth: when He decrees a thing, He merely says, “Be,” and there it is.

searchtruth.com/tafsir/tafsir.php?chapter=2
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The bolded part is interesting. Where did Christians say that God has adopted a son? Clearly and obviously Muslims misunderstand what has been taught. Adopted children of God through Jesus Christ his Only Son, yes, adopted a son, no.

Search truth indeed:p

MJ
 
I ask, if Satan {Satanic Verses] or indeed Medical delusionment {need for Abrogation to deal with ‘conflicting truths’], are Muhammad’s ‘messages’ divinely sourced, inspired or purposed by the One God of Abraham {the God of TRUTH only]?

If this is sourced from God in whatever way, to what purpose? If it is sourced from Satan, again to what purpose - surely not to encourage devotion to the One True God of Abraham?
 
DaveBj said:
I can agree with that. They have been taught that they worship the God of Abraham, and they believe that they are worshiping the God of Abraham, but they have been taught wrong from the beginning.
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What they have been taught has nothing to do with who they believe in or pray to.

The question was do they worship a false god or the same God as us.

The correct answer is the same God as us.

And I do not agree with you that they believe they worship the God of Abraham, they do.

The question is not do they have the true teachings of the God of Abraham. The Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammad a false prophet, But they do not worship Muhammad as their god.

The Muslims have never claimed him to be the ONE TRUE GOD THE GOD OF ABRAHAM. The One True God they pray to is the same God we pray to.

Also do they worship the same God differently. The answer is again Yes. They as the teachings of Israel see God as the One True God, but do not see him as the One God in the Trinity. Because they worship him and pray to him as the God Almighty and not the Trinity does not make the God Almighty a false god, nor does it make them praying to a false god.

Just because they were misled with the true teachings of God the Almighty does not mean they worship a false god.

When they kneel down and bow they are not bowing to Muhammad, or his teaching, they are praying and worshipping the true King. The Father Almighty. The one true God of heaven and earth.
 
Mount_Carmel said:
I ask, if Satan {Satanic Verses] or indeed Medical delusionment {need for Abrogation to deal with ‘conflicting truths’], are Muhammad’s ‘messages’ divinely sourced, inspired or purposed by the One God of Abraham {the God of TRUTH only]?

If this is sourced from God in whatever way, to what purpose? If it is sourced from Satan, again to what purpose - surely not to encourage devotion to the One True God of Abraham?
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You should know the answer to this. Read the second letters to Timothy.

It is full of teachings us to aware of false teachings and doctrine.

It tells you to remain faithful to what you have learned from whom you have learned it.

That is through the Catholic Church.

Read all of these letters. It will answer all of your questions.

But we must remember many do not have the truth, as we were lucky to get. It will be as I said earlier by the work of the Holy Spirit that the truth will be given to them.

But we must especially as Catholic’s recognize and accept the truth in all faith, regardless of what they are.

Most faiths no matter what have at least a bit of truth.
 
thrasher59 said:
Muslims believe that Jesus was only one of many prophets. The Biblical verse " I am the way the truth and the life- NOBODY comes to the Father but by Me" says it all. They are deceived,but many are coming to the truth-unfortunately, it’s usually by Protestant denominations,who are much more vigilant in evangelizing than we are.
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Really? I disagree. I feel that our Pope and Bishops are the most Vigilant in the world.

When I look at what Pope John Paul has done in this world I am still amazed. And our Current Pope. He is awesome.

By the way the many Jews also do not see God in the Trinity as us. They will be brought to the truth just as Muslims by the power of the Holy Spirit.

As I have stressed, many false teaches do not always merit a false god.

And as the Church teaches Muslims Christians and Jews all worship the One True God. The one truth we all 3 have.

Unfortunatelly one of the very FEW truths the Muslims have, but a truth indeed.
 
rinnie said:
What they have been taught has nothing to do with who they believe in or pray to.

snip
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What they have been taught has EVERYTHING to do with whom they THINK they are believing in or praying to.

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I see no use in further debate with you.
 
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DaveBj:
Quote:

What they have been taught has EVERYTHING to do with whom they THINK they are believing in or praying to.
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Paragraph 841 in the CCC very ecumenically summarizes this thought.

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DaveBj said:
What they have been taught has EVERYTHING to do with whom they THINK they are believing in or praying to.

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I see no use in further debate with you.
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Yes we are,

What they have been taught has nothing to do with whom they pray to.

You seem to believe because they have a false teaching about the one true God makes the One true God false. As you stated we will indeed have to agree to disagee.

I will continue to agree with the teachings of the Church. That although they worship the One True God (name removed by moderator)erfectly they indeed pay hommage to him and pray to him everyday.

The book of Genesis makes Abraham the Father of many nations.

Muslims and Arabs trace their lineage through Ishmael. This is God that they follow. Rather they follow him (name removed by moderator)erfectly is not the point of this post.

The question is do they profess a false god. They profess the God of Abraham as the One true God. Thourgh Ishmael.

Could you please explain to me how that would be a false god in your thinking.
 
rinnie said:
snip

The question is do they profess a false god. They profess the God of Abraham as the One true God. Thourgh Ishmael.

Could you please explain to me how that would be a false god in your thinking.
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sigh

I already have, several times. I will try once more time.

[hypothetical alert]

Suppose that my mother taught me from the time that I was a little boy that the little golden statue of the calf over our fireplace was JHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and that I needed to prostrate myself to that little statue five times a day and pray to it, and that when I did, I would be praying to JHWH. So I spend my life prostrating myself to the little statue five times a day, and I teach my children to do the same.

Question: Am I actually worshiping JHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Answer: No, I am worshiping a false god.

[hypothetical off]

Allah cannot be JHWH; their descriptions in the Qur’an and the Old Testament are not just different; they are contradictory. The Muslim people have been lied to, either by a demon, or by Muhammad himself, and they have been buying it for 1400 years. They believe that they are worshiping the God of Abraham, but they are not.

I know what the paragraph in the CCC says, but in all charity, I believe that the paragraph was written by someone who did not understand Islam, and that not enough research was done before its inclusion was decided.
 
@Davebj

All the CCC says is that Muslims hold the faith of Abraham. This means they are monotheistic and acknowledge this god as creator as Catholics acknowledge the Creator. Your explanation is right on. I think the CCC is being ecumenical but if you read the words in 841 it does not say they worship the same God as catholics. In fact, it would have been easy to simply say they worship the God of Abraham but it does not. Why? Because they DON’T. And like everyone, the plan of salvation includes them…it includes EVERYONE.

I did some research and came across St. John of Damascus. He has some interesting things to say about Islam. It is a good read.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
 
we believe that Jesus is a prophet just like Mohammed , not a God
but he have a great miracle like Revive the dead people and Heal the patients and most of all we believe in hes miracle birth but in a different way of speaking
we don’t say it so you can imagine it , the Koran says what happened that : Allah (translated god) is told Mary by the Angel that she will have a son , she asked hem how i will have a baby and no man had touch me ?? he told her that what God says and that what is going to happened
 
concretecamper said:
@Davebj

All the CCC says is that Muslims hold the faith of Abraham. This means they are monotheistic and acknowledge this god as creator as Catholics acknowledge the Creator. Your explanation is right on. I think the CCC is being ecumenical but if you read the words in 841 it does not say they worship the same God as catholics. In fact, it would have been easy to simply say they worship the God of Abraham but it does not. Why? Because they DON’T. And like everyone, the plan of salvation includes them…it includes EVERYONE.

I did some research and came across St. John of Damascus. He has some interesting things to say about Islam. It is a good read.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
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we does believe in the same god of Abraham our faith is have so many connecting with hes story
like that he have Ismail and Is-haq (Isaac)
and the Arabs came from Ismail , the Jews came from Isaac and that make us and the Jews more like cousins
and we share god with them as the closest religion worshiping terms cause we worship one god not three
 
Mickey said:
1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.
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Does “deny” mean “failure to accept upon becoming aware of the possibility” or “renouncing after accepting” or even “pretending otherwise when convenient (such as when Simon Peter denied knowing Jesus)”?
 
mek42 said:
Does “deny” mean “failure to accept upon becoming aware of the possibility” or “renouncing after accepting” or even “pretending otherwise when convenient (such as when Simon Peter denied knowing Jesus)”?
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It means that if after learning about what Jesus did and said and how He acted and what He was all about, if one does not see ‘God’ in these actions -then one does not know God… If one rejects these actions and seeks the actions of another as better, then he denies God.
 
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