Does Islam worship a "false god" or the same god differently?

[Mickey]

It means that if after learning about what Jesus did and said and how He acted and what He was all about, if one does not see ‘God’ in these actions -then one does not know God… If one rejects these actions and seeks the actions of another as better, then he denies God.

And if one denies that Jesus Christ is true God…then he hath not the Father.

 

[TEPO]

the Koran says what happened that : Allah (translated god) is told Mary by the Angel that she will have a son , she asked hem how i will have a baby and no man had touch me ?? he told her that what God says and that what is going to happened

If God told Mary that HE was going to put a baby inside her, then that baby came straight from God… It would be Gods only true Son because That’s the only time God ever did that. If God had a Son, that Son would be in His likeness. It would be a Godly baby.

How could there ever be a person, prophet or whatever, that could beat the example of Gods only Son?

 

[TEPO]

And if one denies that Jesus Christ is true God…then he hath not the Father.

Yes. But what bothers me is that: how can a believer in God think that a natural born person could be a better example than one born miraculously from God Himself…! That in itself seems sinful considering that they acknowledge that God Himself was the one and only true Father of Jesus.

 

[TEPO]

Yes. But what bothers me is that: how can a believer in God think that a natural born person could be a better example than one born miraculously from God Himself…! That in itself seems sinful considering that they acknowledge that God Himself was the one and only true Father of Jesus.

Perhaps within Islamism, God was not pleased with His Son Jesus? I don’t get it.

 

[moodset]

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.

Numbers 23:19
19 God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.

John 8:40
But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
and
John 8:28-29

28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.
does that remind you in the Koranic story of Jesus ?

 

[MartinJordan]

Numbers 23:19
19 God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.

John 8:40
But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
and
John 8:28-29

28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.
does that remind you in the Koranic story of Jesus ?

Can you show me where in the Quran that these Bible verses are used?

MJ

 

[rinnie]

we believe that Jesus is a prophet just like Mohammed , not a God
but he have a great miracle like Revive the dead people and Heal the patients and most of all we believe in hes miracle birth but in a different way of speaking
we don’t say it so you can imagine it , the Koran says what happened that : Allah (translated god) is told Mary by the Angel that she will have a son , she asked hem how i will have a baby and no man had touch me ?? he told her that what God says and that what is going to happened

Yes, no disrespect but what you have is very little teaching of the True God of Abraham.

The True teaching that we have in common is indeed the One True God the creator of heaven and earth is indeed the One true God. We both agree on that. Along with the Jews.

That is what the CCC states.

Do we all worship the same God. Well thats where the debate continues.

The problem is as the Church teaches we worship God in the perfect way. Although your teachings come from Muhammad who we believe is a false prophet, then we also believe the teachings are false.

Although we believe you worship the One true God as we do, not worshipping in a way that you follow his teachings, we believe when you pray to the one true God, As I have stated in my posts you are indeed praying (or worshipping as they say) the same God in your prayers as we do.

But that is pretty much as far as we go in our beliefs.

As in our daily worship, that is not praying but our teachings we are worlds apart.

You do honor the Mother of Christ and again have some of the true teachings of God and have much respect for the Blessed Mother. As you stated you do believe the One True God came to the Blessed Mother through the angel.

The RCC has a duty to tell the truth in all faiths. But it also has the duty to spread the good news and the truth to all faiths.

We are all called to come together in Christ through his Church.

Here is what the Church says about the relationship we do have although very limited.

The CC recognizes in other faiths that search among shadows and images for the God whi is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and want ALL men to be saved. Thus the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as a PREPARATION for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.

THe CCC also teaches that their religious behavior however men who display limits and errors that DISFIGURE the image of God in them.

I think the is very important for people who feel the Church does not have a true understanding on the God of Abraham. The Church knows quite well what they are saying.

The CCC also states very often deceived by the evil one men have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the creature rather then the Creator living and dying in this world without God they are exposed to ultimate despair.

 

[rinnie]

sigh

I already have, several times. I will try once more time.

[hypothetical alert]

Suppose that my mother taught me from the time that I was a little boy that the little golden statue of the calf over our fireplace was JHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and that I needed to prostrate myself to that little statue five times a day and pray to it, and that when I did, I would be praying to JHWH. So I spend my life prostrating myself to the little statue five times a day, and I teach my children to do the same.

Question: Am I actually worshiping JHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Answer: No, I am worshiping a false god.

[hypothetical off]

Allah cannot be JHWH; their descriptions in the Qur’an and the Old Testament are not just different; they are contradictory. The Muslim people have been lied to, either by a demon, or by Muhammad himself, and they have been buying it for 1400 years. They believe that they are worshiping the God of Abraham, but they are not.

I know what the paragraph in the CCC says, but in all charity, I believe that the paragraph was written by someone who did not understand Islam, and that not enough research was done before its inclusion was decided.

The CCC does indeed know quite well what they are teachings.

The CCC state quite clear that together with us they adore the merciful God mankinds judge on the last day. You claim that is a different God. I have asked you numerous times to explain to me how that can be. Do they adore the Merciful God mankinds judge on the last day?

You and others here continue to say no? Why? Because they do not have the teachings and truth of the CC.

But the Church teachings there are those who have not received the gospel and are related to the People of God in various ways.

Those who through NO FAULT of thier own do not KNOW the gospel of Christ or his Church but who nevertheless SEEK GOD with a sincere heart and moved by grace TRY in their actions to DO HIS WILL as THEY KNOW it through the dictates of THIER CONSCIENCE those too may acheive salvation.

ALthough in ways know to himself GOD CAN lead those who though no fault of their own are Ignorant of the Gospel to that faith which it is impossible to please him the church STILL has an OBLIGATION and also the SACRED RIGHT to evangelize to all men.

You continue to say that because they seek God although (name removed by moderator)erfectly and follow the teachings of a false prophet they are not seeking the True God.

Please explain to me one more time is how following a false gospel given to them by a false prophet makes the God whom they ACKNOWLEDGE the CREATOR false.

You continue to state a false doctrine makes a false god.

Please show me where ALL Muslims have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the TRUTH of GOD for a lie and served the creature rather then the Creator.

When they never had the FULL TRUTH OF GOD. or much of it at all. Where does not having the TRUTH of the ONE TRUE GOD, make the ONE TRUE GOD himself false.

We as the Church call all men to the ONE TRUE GOD through the Church. The Church has never denied this. All the Church has ever said is they do ADORE the one merciful God. You say this one merciful God is false. Please show me proof. Thats all I am asking.

You have failed to do so. All you have done is say the Church has no understanding. That is a false statement.

 

[Mickey]

does that remind you in the Koranic story of Jesus ?

No.

 

[concretecamper]

The CCC does indeed know quite well what they are teachings.

The CCC state quite clear that together with us they adore the merciful God mankinds judge on the last day. You claim that is a different God. I have asked you numerous times to explain to me how that can be. Do they adore the Merciful God mankinds judge on the last day?

You and others here continue to say no? Why? Because they do not have the teachings and truth of the CC.

But the Church teachings there are those who have not received the gospel and are related to the People of God in various ways.

Those who through NO FAULT of thier own do not KNOW the gospel of Christ or his Church but who nevertheless SEEK GOD with a sincere heart and moved by grace TRY in their actions to DO HIS WILL as THEY KNOW it through the dictates of THIER CONSCIENCE those too may acheive salvation.

ALthough in ways know to himself GOD CAN lead those who though no fault of their own are Ignorant of the Gospel to that faith which it is impossible to please him the church STILL has an OBLIGATION and also the SACRED RIGHT to evangelize to all men.

You continue to say that because they seek God although (name removed by moderator)erfectly and follow the teachings of a false prophet they are not seeking the True God.

Please explain to me one more time is how following a false gospel given to them by a false prophet makes the God whom they ACKNOWLEDGE the CREATOR false.

You continue to state a false doctrine makes a false god.

Please show me where ALL Muslims have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the TRUTH of GOD for a lie and served the creature rather then the Creator.

When they never had the FULL TRUTH OF GOD. or much of it at all. Where does not having the TRUTH of the ONE TRUE GOD, make the ONE TRUE GOD himself false.

We as the Church call all men to the ONE TRUE GOD through the Church. The Church has never denied this. All the Church has ever said is they do ADORE the one merciful God. You say this one merciful God is false. Please show me proof. Thats all I am asking.

You have failed to do so. All you have done is say the Church has no understanding. That is a false statement.

Rinnie…you continue to read more into the CCC rather than simply reading what it says. The CCC says Muslims acknowledge the Creator (I could decided to start my own monotheist religion and call the creator Bill…doesn’t mean it is the same God). The CCC also says together with us they adore the one merciful God mankind’s judge on the last day. I could describe Bill in the same manner. To me, Bill can be one…merciful…and judge, but that does not make Bill the same person as the Father.

 

[moodset]

Yes, no disrespect but what you have is very little teaching of the True God of Abraham.

The True teaching that we have in common is indeed the One True God the creator of heaven and earth is indeed the One true God. We both agree on that. Along with the Jews.

That is what the CCC states.

Do we all worship the same God. Well thats where the debate continues.

The problem is as the Church teaches we worship God in the perfect way. Although your teachings come from Muhammad who we believe is a false prophet, then we also believe the teachings are false.

Although we believe you worship the One true God as we do, not worshipping in a way that you follow his teachings, we believe when you pray to the one true God, As I have stated in my posts you are indeed praying (or worshipping as they say) the same God in your prayers as we do.

But that is pretty much as far as we go in our beliefs.

As in our daily worship, that is not praying but our teachings we are worlds apart.

You do honor the Mother of Christ and again have some of the true teachings of God and have much respect for the Blessed Mother. As you stated you do believe the One True God came to the Blessed Mother through the angel.

The RCC has a duty to tell the truth in all faiths. But it also has the duty to spread the good news and the truth to all faiths.

We are all called to come together in Christ through his Church.

Here is what the Church says about the relationship we do have although very limited.

The CC recognizes in other faiths that search among shadows and images for the God whi is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and want ALL men to be saved. Thus the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as a PREPARATION for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.

THe CCC also teaches that their religious behavior however men who display limits and errors that DISFIGURE the image of God in them.

I think the is very important for people who feel the Church does not have a true understanding on the God of Abraham. The Church knows quite well what they are saying.

The CCC also states very often deceived by the evil one men have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the creature rather then the Creator living and dying in this world without God they are exposed to ultimate despair.

my teaching come originally from god
he sent to Mohammed his words by an angel
that what we believe
i know about Abraham
he is my great great great … grande father cause the Arab is from hes son Ismail strain
anyhow
what we have of problems is that you was worshiping the same god until Jesus died
you start to worship the Creator and creature
that is what call “shirk”
and that why the Jews don’t agree with you cause they believe in one God not three in one
i see it this way
the old testament that the Jews believe Jesus came to tell them that they aren’t on the straight path , then the new testament come as a Bible But Christians worship Jesus instead of the truly one God
Then Mohammed came as the final Testament
i mean why would God tell Moses to make the Jews worships hem and tell them that he is three

 

[Mickey]

what we have of problems is that you was worshiping the same god until Jesus died

As we can see here…the muslims themselves…admit that they do not worship the same God as the Christians.

Case closed.

 

[rinnie]

my teaching come originally from god
he sent to Mohammed his words by an angel
that what we believe
i know about Abraham
he is my great great great … grande father cause the Arab is from hes son Ismail strain
anyhow
what we have of problems is that you was worshiping the same god until Jesus died
you start to worship the Creator and creature
that is what call “shirk”
and that why the Jews don’t agree with you cause they believe in one God not three in one
i see it this way
the old testament that the Jews believe Jesus came to tell them that they aren’t on the straight path , then the new testament come as a Bible But Christians worship Jesus instead of the truly one God
Then Mohammed came as the final Testament
i mean why would God tell Moses to make the Jews worships hem and tell them that he is three

No one is disagreeing that the Jews only have as we say half the book. The O.T. is indeed the true word of God.

But the difference is the Jews indeed have the true teachings and words of God. But here is something you need to realize. Yes the Jews missed Jesus as the One True God in the Son. But the Jews are comming to Jesus in record numbers everyday and are beginning to See Jesus as indeed the One true God.

Not all Jews many accepted Jesus. Do you not realize the Apostles were indeed Jews. Look at St Paul he crucified the Church of Christ until he had a true private revelation from God and saw that he was wrong.

But many Jews are blind to the word of Christ He told us this in the bible. I don’t know why they did not all come to accept Christ. But they will if they are his true people.

Many Muslims are also comming to Christ. And will continue.

Just as you do not see Christ in the One True God does not make it so. Just as you believing that hte God of Abraham is the One True God does not make the teachings of Muhammad true.

As I have stated we all believe that there is ONE TRUE GOD the God of Abraham. Thats pretty much the only truth we have in common.

Much os what you teach is in direct conflict not only with the N.T. but also the O.T. The Jews and Christians believe the O.T. is the true word of God.

If you knew the O.T. you would understand why Christ came. The O.T. predicted it. Its not that the Jews reject the comming of a King, they missed the True King as Christ.

But this is not a discussion of what we believe and you believe. All we can agree on is the God of Abraham is the One True God the Creator of heaven and earth. Rather we see him in the Trinity and you do not makes no difference at this point.

What we agree on is there is only ONE God the creator of heaven and earth.

 

[rinnie]

To make the point even shorter and more clear.

It would be wrong for a Muslim to say that we do not believe in the One True God the God of Abraham because we see the One True God in the Trinity.

The same as it would be for us to say Muslims do not believe in the One True God the God of Abraham because they do not see him in the Trinity.

The same with the Jews.

This is what the Church teaches.

The Jews have half the Truth Muslims very little truth and the RCC the fullness of the Truth.

 

[rinnie]

As we can see here…the muslims themselves…admit that they do not worship the same God as the Christians.

Case closed.

So then you are saying as usual that because Muslims do not see Christ in the Trinity and the Jews also they have a false god and a different God then Christians?

I don’t hardly think so.

Either there is One true God the God of Abraham the Creator of heaven and earth or Abraham is also guilty of false worship of a false god. And The God of Abraham was different gods.

Because Father Abraham never taught that God was the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus did.

The truth of the One True God was not revealed until it was revealed through the Son.

 

[Mickey]

So then you are saying as usual that because Muslims do not see Christ in the Trinity and the Jews also they have a false god and a different God then Christians?

You have free will to believe anything you please. Obviously this subject is near and dear to your heart since you always engage these threads with fervor. For some reason, it is important for you to believe that the Muslims worship the same God (the Father) as the Christians. I do not see it that way. Many Christians don’t see it that way (including many Catholics). Heck…the Muslims themselves don’t see it that way.

But most importantly, St John’s letter gives us the answer.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.

 

[MartinJordan]

No.

MJ

 

[GaryTaylor]

You have free will to believe anything you please. Obviously this subject is near and dear to your heart since you always engage these threads with fervor. For some reason, it is important for you to believe that the Muslims worship the same God (the Father) as the Christians. I do not see it that way. Many Christians don’t see it that way (including many Catholics). Heck…the Muslims themselves don’t see it that way.

But most importantly, St John’s letter gives us the answer.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.

This actually might be irrefutable and of course brutally honest.

 

[rinnie]

You have free will to believe anything you please. Obviously this subject is near and dear to your heart since you always engage these threads with fervor. For some reason, it is important for you to believe that the Muslims worship the same God (the Father) as the Christians. I do not see it that way. Many Christians don’t see it that way (including many Catholics). Heck…the Muslims themselves don’t see it that way.

But most importantly, St John’s letter gives us the answer.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.

Please do not claim to read my heart. Please do not tell me what is important or not important to me.

I believe in the teachings of my Church and my Pope.

Please do not judge my Pope and please do not judge me for obeying my Lord and accepting his teaching. I will put any teaching of my Pope above what you think any day.

I am not being disrepectful towards you Mickey or ever have meant to be. I am teaching what my Pope has taught me. Please find it in your heart to be the same. You have been telling me for quite awhile I do not understand what my Pope teaches.

The address that the Pope has given in 1985 to Muslims is quite clear.

Christians and Muslims we have many things in COMMON, as believers and as human beings we live in the same world marked by many signs of hope but also by multiple signs of anguish. For US Abraham is a very model of faith in God the One God the Living God who created the world and brings his creature to their perfection.

It is therefore towards this God that my thought goes and my heart rises it is of God himself that above all I wish to speak with you of him. BECAUSE it is IN HIM that WE BELIEVE YOU MUSLIMS and WE CATHOLICS.

I refuse to fight and argue with you Mickey, I have done so engaged in the past and am very ashamed of the level I have come to with you. I have asked for forgiveness and pray for Gods mercy to not repeat it again.

I am only repeating what I have been taught from what as A Catholic I feel a very wonderful and reliable source. THE Vicar of Christ. The beloved and Pope John Paul ll.

Who as in the Address claims and bears the responsibility of the successor of Peter the Apostle chosen by Jesus to strengthen his brother in faith.

Again it is quite clear what he taught me. It is clear I have been told it has never been said we believe in the same God.

John Paul ll was quite clear when he said because it is in HIM that WE believe you MUSLIMS and US CATHOLICS.

As I have stated if they believe in a false god then so do we. I believe in what My Pope taught and believe he has authority to teach and preach in the name of God and accept his teachings.

 

[jakasaki]

Do **muslims **believe WE/Christians worship a false God…???

Do **muslims **believe WE **ALL/Christians/Muslims **worship the same God…??