Does Islam worship the same God?

[TomaszA]

How then do the “ten thousands of saints” fit into the picture?.. Who were they exactly and did the Lord appear to them as well?

What indeed was the “fiery law” that was given to all of these ten thousands of saints?

Your biggest challenge is to prove that Paran = Mecca.I would speculate that Mecca didn’t even exist at the time of Deuteronomy’s composition and therefore it can’t be referring to the Paran the ancient Israelites were familiar with.

Personally I think Deuteronomy 33:1-2 is a retelling of the life of Moses and the conquest of Canaan.

 

[cathopologist]

• Very true, initially. But things quickly degenerated by Irreligous Secular Leaders, like the Pillaging of Constantinople, sponsored by the Venetian Bankers, initially to collect Loan IOU’s; etc, etc. None of the Crusades were Church Led, and most degenrated to selfish hatred, property and power grabbing. Several Muslim cities saw the entire population massacred. Is no Religious excuse. The Reason was the often false or exagerrated Propganda to Incite the Crusaders to Fight. Is true of almost all wars except some of WW II.

Yup. The Venetians were greedy. However, revisionist historical versions of the Crusades by the Protestants and Muslims have created a false imagery. You should read Thomas F. Madden’s take on the true historical Crusades. He, amongst other scholars have begun new in-depth investigations into the true historical origins of the Crusades.

 

[hamba2han]

Your biggest challenge is to prove that Paran = Mecca.I would speculate that Mecca didn’t even exist at the time of Deuteronomy’s composition and therefore it can’t be referring to the Paran the ancient Israelites were familiar with.

The Bible itself states that Paran lies in the Arabian desert and this can only mean that it is specifically Makkah as can be seen in the following excerpt which actually comes from a webpage at answering-islam.org.

Some difference of opinion has arisen as to where “Paran” actually is with some people mistakenly concluding that it is in Sinai. However, this is resolved very simply by recognizing the following four points:

1. The Bible tells us in Genesis 21:21 that Ishmael, the son of prophet Abraham and the father of the Arabs, settled in “Paran.” **(And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.) **This is where he would live and die and this is where he raised all of his children. Ishmael was the father of the Arabs. Thus, we would be justified in assuming that the Arabs should be better acquainted with where their father (and them themselves) lived than any other nation, and it is a well established fact among the Arabs that their father Ishmael was the founder of the city of Makkah, as well as the one who, with the help of prophet Abraham (pbut) built the holy house of God, the Ka’aba, in that city.
2. The Arabs and Jews are Semitic cousins. They descend from the same father, prophet Abraham (pbuh). Their languages, Arabic and Hebrew, are very similar in many respects since they have a common ancestry. However, Arabic never died out as a spoken language for many centuries as Hebrew did. In Arabic, the word Paran is pronounced “Faran” which means “Two who migrated.” This word is used in the Qur’an to convey the meaning of “emigrating to your Lord” or “escaping to your Lord”. This can be found in the verse of Al-Thariat(51):50. Indeed, Ishmael and his ther, Hagar, did in fact emigrate (as witnessed by the Bible too) to this location which would later become the city of Makkah.
3. The Bible itself distinguishes between the wilderness of Sinai and the wilderness of Paran in Numbers 10:12. (And the children of Israel took their journeys out of the wilderness of Si’nai; and the cloud rested in the wilderness of Paran.) It is quite clear from this verse that they are two different locations.
4. The Lebanese Christian, Kamal Salibi, places Paran in close proximity to Makkah. On page 215 of his book ‘The Bible Came from Arabia’ he says: “… the place in question could have been Faran, in the Zahran highlands, bordering on the basaltic desert of Harrat Al-Buqum. In any case, this Faran was no doubt the Biblical Paran”

And so, the question is → Do Christians believe that the Bible got it’s geography wrong with regard to the location of the Biblical “Paran”?

Personally I think Deuteronomy 33:1-2 is a retelling of the life of Moses and the conquest of Canaan.

Even in the exceedingly unlikely event that what you say is true, it still does not explain who the “ten thousands of saints” were and what indeed was the “fiery law” that was given to them.

 

[Sailka]

Yup. The Venetians were greedy. However, revisionist historical versions of the Crusades by the Protestants and Muslims have created a false imagery. You should read Thomas F. Madden’s take on the true historical Crusades. He, amongst other scholars have begun new in-depth investigations into the true historical origins of the Crusades.

:coffeeread: :juggle: A few important corrections:
(1) It wasn’t greedy venetians, but the Banking center of the world at the time, the Venetian Banks/Bankers to whom the Byzantine empire had been much in arrears financially who were the instigators of the Constatinople sacking. But the looting, destruction was for personal gain and hatred of the Muslims, generated by propaganda.
(2) It wasn’t protestant and muslim revisionists who put light on what happenned in Reality. It was honest Catholic and historic sources, like Fr Mitch Pacwa, SJ who discussed the leadership, and lack of same, in the Crusades.

(3) I read the entire Thomas Madden lead on the Crusades. It is Very Very generalized… And unquestionably, the Crusades were Initiated by the Pope calling for the recapture of the Holy Land. That was the only Church leadership, in Calling for Recapture. Mr Madden totally ignores the gruesome details, or reasons for, the great evils that began. See my Posting Above re same. :compcoff:
It is the original details and reasons of what/why/how the Crusades happenned that are important, ignored.

 

[TomaszA]

The Bible itself states that Paran lies in the Arabian desert and this can only mean that it is specifically Makkah as can be seen in the following excerpt which actually comes from a webpage at answering-islam.org.

First of all, nowhere does the Bible identify Paran as the “Arabian desert.”

Second of all, by “Arabian desert” I assume you mean Hijaaz. There is absolutely no evidence that Paran is the Hijaaz.

Lastly, you seem to suggest that the site Answering Islam affirms your claim that Paran = Mecca, when in fact that article is quoting a Muslim. You mistook the quote for a statement from Answering Islam.

The rest of your post is copy and pasting from Al-Kindi. Here is **Answering Islam’**s point by point refutation of what you posted on this board:

The claims regarding Paran

Even in the exceedingly unlikely event that what you say is true, it still does not explain who the “ten thousands of saints” were and what indeed was the “fiery law” that was given to them.

If you had taken the time to actually read Deuteronomy 33 verses 1 through 6 you would have realized your interpretation is impossible. Verse 4 indicates the Law was given to the community of Jacob (i.e. descendants of Isaac) and in verse 5 it explicitly mentions** Israel **by name! It obviously can’t be referring to Muhammad or the Arabs.

So who are the ten thousand saints? First of all the proper translation of the verse you refer to is, “And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones” and it’s probably referring to the midst of Angels that surround God (cf Daniel 7:10)
**
“At His right hand there was flashing lightning for them.”** This refers to the angel and pillar of fire that led the Israelite durring their exodus.

 

[hamba2han]

… If you had taken the time to actually read Deuteronomy 33 verses 1 through 6 you would have realized your interpretation is impossible. Verse 4 indicates the Law was given to the community of Jacob (i.e. descendants of Isaac) and in verse 5 it explicitly mentions** Israel **by name! It obviously can’t be referring to Muhammad or the Arabs.

So who are the ten thousand saints? First of all the proper translation of the verse you refer to is, "And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones" and it’s probably referring to the midst of Angels that surround God (cf Daniel 7:10)
**
“At His right hand there was flashing lightning for them.”** This refers to the angel and pillar of fire that led the Israelite durring their exodus.

Verse 4 only says that a law was commanded by Moses whereas verse 2 says that the “fiery law” was specifically given to the ten thousands of saints/holy ones.

Unless you are saying that the community of Jacob had ten thousands of saints/holy ones, then it surely cannot be they who received the fiery law, can it?

And it hardly makes much sense at all for “angels that surround God” to be given “fiery laws” for them to follow.

And we should not forget also that the saints/holy ones were specifically mentioned as coming from mount Paran.

It is therefore extremely improbable that the ten thousand saints/holy ones who were given the fiery law were “angels that surround God” and nor is it likely at all that they were from the community of Jacob.

 

[TomaszA]

Verse 4 only says that a law was commanded by Moses whereas verse 2 says that the “fiery law” was specifically given to the ten thousands of saints/holy ones.

I’m relying on contemporary translations of the text which are more accurate than what you seem to be using. We can discuss certain aspects of the verses and which translation is better but I think the whole problem rests on Mount Paran. If we can show that Paran does not mean Mecca, and that there is no evidence for it being Mecca, then this whole issue of holy ones and Jacob becomes moot.

This is thoroughly refuted here:
Link: The claims regarding Paran

 

[jblake]

TomaszA;:

but I think the whole problem rests on Mount Paran.

Biblical geography is always influenced by the theological bias of the geographer.

xan

jonathon

 

[Sailka]

Biblical geography is always influenced by the theological bias of the geographer.

xan

jonathon

And perhaps changing geographical boundaries, cultures in last 2500 years?:sad_yes: Major such changes last 60 years. :sad_yes: :crying: :banghead: :doh2:

 

[ralphinal]

If Islam and Christianity worshiped the same God, would the messages not be the same? Why is Islam not more like Judaism? Or have the same concepts of heaven, hell, angels, sin and all that as either of the other two?

They intend to worship the same God, but they have a flawed and defective understanding of that God.

They worship what they do not know

 

[Sailka]

If Islam and Christianity worshiped the same God, would the messages not be the same? Why is Islam not more like Judaism? Or have the same concepts of heaven, hell, angels, sin and all that as either of the other two?

They intend to worship the same God, but they have a flawed and defective understanding of that God.

They worship what they do not know

Much of the difference is Different cultures, viewing things. Is most of the difference. As even 1 Corr: 13? says: different prophecies, different tongues…in the ‘church’

Ever noticed how remarkeably Similar the rock bottom teachings of all major religions are? Budhism, Islam, Chritianity, Judaism all teach Same Basics: Help others, not self, help improve society, help the starving, the opprressed, etc, etc. Is the Proof of One God. Islam is really basically the most demanding Faith: Do not begin your meal until your your poorer ‘friend’ has finished the meal you gave him; Pray prone several times a day, etc.

And all teachavoiding war, defensive wars, fair fights: Islam teahes not to duel an unarmed, lesser armed opponent, in one-on-one. When Conditions are fair, equal

Aware that Islam and the Jewish faith Name both Mean Peace?
Politiscians have own ideas.

 

[planten]

I’m relying on contemporary translations of the text which are more accurate than what you seem to be using. We can discuss certain aspects of the verses and which translation is better but I think the whole problem rests on Mount Paran. If we can show that Paran does not mean Mecca, and that there is no evidence for it being Mecca, then this whole issue of holy ones and Jacob becomes moot.

This is thoroughly refuted here:
Link: The claims regarding Paran

**TomaszA, it is agreed that there was no city of Makkah at that time. No Makkah any where. Nobody was living where ishmael and Hagar were left by Abraham. That was a wilderness.

So there was no Makkah there at that time but there is Makkah now. So what would you please say about teh children of Ishmael. Where did they live and where did they go?

Angels do not have any laws. The wrods of Deut 33:1 are a part of prophesy. The Prophesy is always about the future, not about the existing time. In Deut 33:1, the spiritual uplift/ guidance / progress of mankind has been described in three stages.

1. God Came from Sinai. That is definitely Moses a.s.
2. He rose from Sier. That is the coming of Jesus, in future.
3. He shone forth from the mount paran. WITH HIM were 10,000 godly saints. In his right hand he had a fiery law for them.

The last part is about Muhammad who entered Makkah with 10,000 men. He had the fiery law in his right hand.

Nobody can deny that. At least the Muslims are fully satisfied that it is referring to Muhammad.

But as there has been so much hard work on the christian side to disinherit ishmael, and to say that he was not the son of Abraham and that he did not inherit anything… That the Arabs are not the descendents of Ishmael… There are so many things that the children of Jacob are denying.

So it is another one of the same kind of denials that Paran is not in Hijaz . WE know that Moses a.s. was talking about the coming of a prophet amongst the Arabs who were the brothers of the Israelis… The same story had been told in Deut 18:18 which has been denied.

Even today when the buses pass through Hijaz, the very young children sell flowers to the travellors. If the travellors ask them as to wherefrom they brought these flowers, the children reply " Min Bariyyate Faran", i.e from the jungle of Faran.

It is proved from the bible that Ishmael lived in the wilderness of Faran. So there is no need to deny anything. The Arabs, the descendents of Ishmael were 12 princes. they settled in all parts of Arabia. Even the many cities of Arabia are names after those twelve princes who are named in the bible.**

 

[planten]

By TomaszA, has made a slight change in the translation to help the children of Israel. The original text was:

“And this [is] the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran,** and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them.”** … Deuteronomy 33:1

TomaszA has made it into :

“And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones” He came “from the midst of” can cause confusion. Such things go a long way in altering the meanings of verses.

 

[Angelos]

The verses refer to the Theophany, you say??

How then do the “ten thousands of saints” fit into the picture?.. Who were they exactly and did the Lord appear to them as well?

What indeed was the “fiery law” that was given to all of these ten thousands of saints?

Yes, I say that these verses narrate the Theophany of the God of Israel. The God of Israel is often depicted with His angelic hosts. God gave the fiery law to Israel through Moses.

The reading of the blessing in its entirety supports this interpretation:

Deuteronomy 33: 3-6
The Lord came from Sinai, and from Seir he rose up to us: he hath appeared from mount Pharan, and with him thousands of saints. In his right hand a fiery law. He hath loved the people, all the saints are in his hand: and they that approach to his feet, shall receive of his doctrine. Moses commanded us a law, the inheritance of the multitude of Jacob. He shall be king with the most right, the princes of the people, being assembled with the tribes of Israel. Let Ruben live, and not die, and be he small in number.

 

[Angelos]

Verse 4 only says that a law was commanded by Moses whereas verse 2 says that the “fiery law” was specifically given to the ten thousands of saints/holy ones.

Unless you are saying that the community of Jacob had ten thousands of saints/holy ones, then it surely cannot be they who received the fiery law, can it?

And it hardly makes much sense at all for “angels that surround God” to be given “fiery laws” for them to follow.

And we should not forget also that the saints/holy ones were specifically mentioned as coming from mount Paran.

It is therefore extremely improbable that the ten thousand saints/holy ones who were given the fiery law were “angels that surround God” and nor is it likely at all that they were from the community of Jacob.

This blessing is given to the Children of Israel; this is why it is impossible for the first Law (fiery law) to be different from the second (a law). According to your uncanny interpretation, Moses supposedly refers to the Islamic Law first, and then talks of the law given to Him, skipping Jesus’ mission. This makes no sense at all!

 

[Angelos]

**TomaszA, it is agreed that there was no city of Makkah at that time. No Makkah any where. Nobody was living where ishmael and Hagar were left by Abraham. That was a wilderness.

So there was no Makkah there at that time but there is Makkah now. So what would you please say about teh children of Ishmael. Where did they live and where did they go?**

Since the blessing in Deuteronomy 33 has neither the word “Makkah” nor the noun “Ishmael”, your argument is impertinent as well as baseless. The reference to Paran in Deuteronomy is only associated with the Theophany that occurred during Israel’s wandering in the wilderness.

**
Angels do not have any laws. The wrods of Deut 33:1 are a part of prophesy. The Prophesy is always about the future, not about the existing time. In Deut 33:1, the spiritual uplift/ guidance / progress of mankind has been described in three stages.

1. God Came from Sinai. That is definitely Moses a.s.
2. He rose from Sier. That is the coming of Jesus, in future.
3. He shone forth from the mount paran. WITH HIM were 10,000 godly saints. In his right hand he had a fiery law for them.

The last part is about Muhammad who entered Makkah with 10,000 men. He had the fiery law in his right hand.**

You are once more repeating the blasphemous teaching that Moses is the God of Israel, who appeared with His angelic host.

You seem to be addicted to contradictions. You first say “The Prophecy is always about the future, not about the existing time.” and then claim “God Came from Sinai. That is definitely Moses”, which means that the so-called prophecy referred not only to the future, but also to the past. (Thanks for the laughter, dear planten)

Besides, Seir has no logical or historical association with Jesus, which is a fact Muslims always choose to ignore.

**
Nobody can deny that. At least the Muslims are fully satisfied that it is referring to Muhammad.**

Muslims are good at fabricating silly theories and perverting some statements in the Bible and in their Koran.

**
But as there has been so much hard work on the christian side to disinherit ishmael, and to say that he was not the son of Abraham and that he did not inherit anything… That the Arabs are not the descendents of Ishmael… There are so many things that the children of Jacob are denying. **

It seems both Allah and Mohammad were too naive to support the Biblical claim that Ishmael was not considered a true son of Abraham. This is why Mohammad’s scribes primarily and mistakenly presumed that Abraham had two sons, whose names were Isaac and Jacob. Ishmael’s name was abruptly added to the list of Abraham’s progeny only at the time of the migration. The Islamic scripture has several problems concerning Ishmael and his mother. There are so many things Muslims scholars are denying.

**
So it is another one of the same kind of denials that Paran is not in Hijaz . WE know that Moses a.s. was talking about the coming of a prophet amongst the Arabs who were the brothers of the Israelis… The same story had been told in Deut 18:18 which has been denied.**

In Deuteronomy 18 Moses promises that a prophet like him will be sent to Israel from among the Jews and Israelites. Since Mohammad was neither a Jew (he was a pagan) nor a Israelite (he was an Arab), he cannot be the promised prophet in the Torah.

Dear planten naively supposes that the verse in Deuteronomy will be miraculously modified and adapted to the Koran if he keeps repeating his false and already rebutted allegations.

**
Even today when the buses pass through Hijaz, the very young children sell flowers to the travellors. If the travellors ask them as to wherefrom they brought these flowers, the children reply " Min Bariyyate Faran", i.e from the jungle of Faran.**

This has nothing to do with the blessing given to Israel by Moses in Deuteronomy 33.

**
It is proved from the bible that Ishmael lived in the wilderness of Faran. So there is no need to deny anything. The Arabs, the descendents of Ishmael were 12 princes. they settled in all parts of Arabia. Even the many cities of Arabia are names after those twelve princes who are named in the bible.**

How sad it is for Muslims to NEED the Bible to prove their Islamic tenets and assertions true!

The Koran never relates when and why Abraham went to Mecca and how this was related to the biblical promise given to Abraham.

 

[Angelos]

The word PARAN in the Torah:

**Genesis 14:6 **
and the Horites in their hill country of Seir, as far as El Paran, which is near the desert

Genesis 21:21
He lived in the wilderness of Paran. His mother found a wife for him from the land of Egypt.

Numbers 10:12
So the Israelites set out on their journeys from the wilderness of Sinai; and the cloud settled in the wilderness of Paran.

Numbers 12:6
After that the people moved from Hazeroth and camped in the wilderness of Paran.

Numbers 13:3
So Moses sent them from the wilderness of Paran at the command of the Lord. All of them were leaders of the Israelites.

Deuteronomy 1:1
This is what Moses said to the assembly of Israel in the Transjordanian wastelands, the arid country opposite Suph, between Paran and Tophel, Laban, Hazeroth, and Di Zahab.

When Moses is in question, the word Paran is always associated with God’s Theophany and the declaration of the Law during Israel’s journey in the wilderness. It indicates a location, not a cryptic name predicting Mohammad’s supposed prophetic mission.

 

[choosechrist]

Muslims intend to worship the same God. However, their understanding of that God is distorted, limited, and corrupted by the false messages. Now, does this make Allah different than our God? Yes and no.

Man cannot change God, so from that standpoint the deficient understanding of Allah does not change him. However, when you worship that which is not correctly God, you are no longer worshiping God.

I agree with you. They think they know God, but they have made him a pupit for their idea of society. Its either their way or the highway. Do they ever use prudence to judge whether their beliefs are correct. No, they dont liek something so they get a fatwa and then can go ahead and kill.

God gave us the Ten Commandments, in which is stated that we cannot kill. These ten commandments no where appear in their book.

Even the devils know that God exists, but they can and often mislead people to think that God is asking them to do things. Why there are so many religions out there that think human sacrifice is accepted by God, so also this religion which thinks that you can kill someone just because he does not accept your idea of who God is.

Anyways, as Christ said many will even kill thinking that they are doing the will of God, but on the day of judegment these poor souls will find out how wrong they were. Let’s pray for them, becuase no amount of convinceing will work with a brainwashed people. Thier hearts and minds are dulled to sleep to ever question the rationality of their beliefs.

 

[planten]

I agree with you. They think they know God, but they have made him a pupit for their idea of society. Its either their way or the highway. Do they ever use prudence to judge whether their beliefs are correct. No, they dont liek something so they get a fatwa and then can go ahead and kill.

Thanks for coming back on topic. But you are deraling the topic by fatwas. The God of Islam is the same as that of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses and Jesus. You people with idea of Jesus meddled into The God have upset the whole belief about God. Your idea is totally different to the idea of Jews and Muslims. So you are the odd ones out, not Muslims. We have one vote on our side. You christians have none.

God gave us the Ten Commandments, in which is stated that we cannot kill. These ten commandments no where appear in their book

.

Where did god give any commandments to the christians?. Are you a Jew? If I did not note or understand then forgive me. But I believe that the TEN Commandments were given to the Jews only.

The christians abondoned those commandments and said that the law of Moses was a curse.

About killing matter I cannot reply until I know whether you are a Jew or a christian.
.

Even the devils know that God exists, but they can and often mislead people to think that God is asking them to do things. Why there are so many religions out there that think human sacrifice is accepted by God, so also this religion which thinks that you can kill someone just because he does not accept your idea of who God is.

Nobody is killing any one for not being Muslim. It is a crime of the highest order. But I do not know what is the order of the day about killing amongst christians and Jews.

In Islam there is no order to kill or persecute any one just for the difference of religion.

Anyways, as Christ said many will even kill thinking that they are doing the will of God, but on the day of judegment these poor souls will find out how wrong they were. Let’s pray for them, becuase no amount of convinceing will work with a brainwashed people. Thier hearts and minds are dulled to sleep to ever question the rationality of their beliefs.

I have got you. You are a christian. Now please tell me where you got the ten commandments? They were for the Jews. You have discarded the law of Moses. Is that not true? You do not follow that law and commandments, sabath etc.

I agree that Jesus was caught too quickly and could not get to the point of killing any one. I do not know who said (must have been God), “You shall not kill.” That is meaningful. It only means you shall not kill any innocent person. It also means you shall not kill any one without the due process of law… Otherwise,the sentence, “You shall not kill” is meaningless. It would be like other sayings of Jesus “I am what I am”, “Before Abraham, I am”.

 

[choosechrist]

Thanks for coming back on topic. But you are deraling the topic by fatwas. The God of Islam is the same as that of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses and Jesus. You people with idea of Jesus meddled into The God have upset the whole belief about God. Your idea is totally different to the idea of Jews and Muslims. So you are the odd ones out, not Muslims. We have one vote on our side. You christians have none.

.

Where did god give any commandments to the christians?. Are you a Jew? If I did not note or understand then forgive me. But I believe that the TEN Commandments were given to the Jews only.

The christians abondoned those commandments and said that the law of Moses was a curse.

About killing matter I cannot reply until I know whether you are a Jew or a christian.
.

Nobody is killing any one for not being Muslim. It is a crime of the highest order. But I do not know what is the order of the day about killing amongst christians and Jews.

In Islam there is no order to kill or persecute any one just for the difference of religion.

I have got you. You are a christian. Now please tell me where you got the ten commandments? They were for the Jews. You have discarded the law of Moses. Is that not true? You do not follow that law and commandments, sabath etc.

I agree that Jesus was caught too quickly and could not get to the point of killing any one. I do not know who said (must have been God), “You shall not kill.” That is meaningful. It only means you shall not kill any innocent person. It also means you shall not kill any one without the due process of law… Otherwise,the sentence, “You shall not kill” is meaningless. It would be like other sayings of Jesus “I am what I am”, “Before Abraham, I am”.

Your tone shows that you cannot tolerate anyone else statements, and I dont chose to argue with you.

I’ll say one thing. The Prophets including Moses were prophesing Christ and none else, therefore it makes no sense for me to throw out thier predictions, on the contrary the fact that their predictions were proved by Christ’s coming proves the love of God for every single human being.

The Laws of God in the Ten Commandments are meant for all people and Chritiainty arose from among the Jewish people. I am not a Jew because I was not born a Jew, but I am a Christian because I used my free will to accept the salvation that God is offering every human being.

We Christians never discarded the Laws given by God through Moses, how you came to this conclusion I don’t care, its not true and you cannot prove it.

Thou shall not kill means just that. We have no right under any circumstance to kill another human being.

As I said I dont wish to argue with you. You and I worship the same God, but you don’t follow His Holy Will, only your idea of His Will.

God is a God of creation not distruction. If God loves you, then I cannot hate you that is what I believe. And I know you will never understand this because you believe in judgment. I believe that judgment belongs to God alone. I have no right to hate you, God never gave me that right. Therefore, I am more free to follow the Law of God because I do not have the burden of buring with judgment over others. One day, we both will stand before the throne of God, my suggestion is let’s work towards our own good and the good of others so that we are not ashamed to stand before God rather than you trying to prove something to me.