Does it matter who is more HOLY?

[prodigalson12]

btw … I didn’t take the devil inference to heart (whether or not he was joking around … doesn’t concern me much, I mean it does say in your bible that unbelievers are evil, it might even use the word beast).

With regard to bigotry … saying an atheist is bigoted against the religious simply because he or she refused to believe it is a logical fallacy. There is an objective standard to bigotry & it is not mere intellectual disagreement (though the religious would like to frame as such probably to defame atheists, which is understandable … since it helps them retain believers through the “us against them” psychology).

Some believers are able to transcend this (because they’re fairly logical reasonable people). However, if you believe the bible is the inspired word of your god then you must believe that god views me as evil (because I don’t believe he exists).

However, you make compromises because you really don’t want to view others (particularly those who don’t warrant such a label) as evil for such an arbitrary reason.

Religion at its core uses basic human psychology quite effectively. It’s designers were not stupid men. Did Paul believe he really saw Jesus on that road to Damascus? I’m not really sure, but if I were to speculate I would say no he didn’t. Did Moses really split a sea in two parts to facilitate the escape from Egypt? There’s no evidence of this … so it’s just a fable. Did Muhammad receive a revelation from god? Did the incarnation of Vishnu as allegedly told to Arjuna really happen (as Hindu’s believe). These are all ancient fables, no more true than the myth of Remus and Romulus (and their mother the Vestal Virgin Rhea Silvia), or Zeus, or the Odin of Norse mythology.

You come here to put down what we believe, for what purpose? Why is it you waste your time here, it’s totally illogical. Nobody has converted to athiesm because of you, nobody ever will, the only thing you are doing is making it clear, I want nothing to do with an athiest, not in business, not in my personal life, certainly not in my church, and the more you speak, the more ignorant you appear to be. You cannot even reference biblical source text correctly, this clearly shows how unlearned you are on the subject. Come on, honestly, why are you here? The only conclusion I can make is to cause disruption, to create hostility, to in general, make this forum a place that’s of less value to us Christians.

The very last thing I ever want to do when I read these threads is here the spew from an atheist putting down our beliefs. You waste my time with each and every offensive post you make, yet you are allowed to be here. Perhaps I should rant about what I think about lawyers, for that’s your profession, how about what I think about government, for that’s something you too are in favor of. I could write volumes on it, and to be blunt, I have never seen a lawyer do anything outside of lie to me and my friends, they all did, every single one.

So, you want to play your games, play them elsewhere, I’d love to just have that ignore button on this board, for you would be the first to get clicked. For now, I’m ignoring every single post you make, you will never get a response from me again, no matter how vial it is, and if everybody follows my lead here, you have nothing to debate anymore, for we all are ignoring you…

 

[humble_in_doubt]

You come here to put down what we believe, for what purpose? Why is it you waste your time here, it’s totally illogical. Nobody has converted to athiesm because of you, nobody ever will, the only thing you are doing is making it clear, I want nothing to do with an athiest, not in business, not in my personal life, certainly not in my church, and the more you speak, the more ignorant you appear to be. You cannot even reference biblical source text correctly, this clearly shows how unlearned you are on the subject. Come on, honestly, why are you here? The only conclusion I can make is to cause disruption, to create hostility, to in general, make this forum a place that’s of less value to us Christians.

please show me where I’ve cited biblical text incorrectly? You sound like an angry man to me … why are you such a hateful person? What value is Christ if you have such hatred toward others? Aren’t you the kind of guy the bible scorns?

The very last thing I ever want to do when I read these threads is here the spew from an atheist putting down our beliefs. You waste my time with each and every offensive post you make, yet you are allowed to be here. Perhaps I should rant about what I think about lawyers, for that’s your profession, how about what I think about government, for that’s something you too are in favor of. I could write volumes on it, and to be blunt, I have never seen a lawyer do anything outside of lie to me and my friends, they all did, every single one.

So, you want to play your games, play them elsewhere, I’d love to just have that ignore button on this board, for you would be the first to get clicked. For now, I’m ignoring every single post you make, you will never get a response from me again, no matter how vial it is, and if everybody follows my lead here, you have nothing to debate anymore, for we all are ignoring you…

OK … gotta love the warm embrace of Christianity

Kill the heretics, burn em alive, and praise god!!! What lunacy …

 

[josie_L]

btw … I didn’t take the devil inference to heart (whether or not he was joking around … doesn’t concern me much, I mean it does say in your bible that unbelievers are evil, it might even use the word beast).

The reference to unbelievers (in the Bible) are for those who do not believe (in Jesus) and commit much sin , remember, there were quite a few people in the Bible who were considered righteous who were not believers (yet), think of the centurion. But in your case you have decided not to believe anymore? Do I know how God will judge you, not really, but I know that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and you gave that up? If this statement bothers you then there’s not much I can do about that, I’m trying to be as honest as I can be.

P.S. The Bible does not use the word beast for unbelievers, it does say however, that many will follow the anti-christ/beast.

 

[josie_L]

With regard to bigotry … saying an atheist is bigoted against the religious simply because he or she refused to believe it is a logical fallacy. There is an objective standard to bigotry & it is not mere intellectual disagreement (though the religious would like to frame as such probably to defame atheists, which is understandable … since it helps them retain believers through the “us against them” psychology).

I never said you were a bigot because you refuse/d to believe, I said you’re being a bigot because you implied that believers are all bigoted. There’s a big difference in what you just posted (above) and what you originally said.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

I never said you were a bigot because you refuse/d to believe, I said you’re being a bigot because you implied that believers are all bigoted. There’s a big difference in what you just posted (above) and what you originally said.

I didn’t say “all” believers were bigots, but I do admit I view bigotry as somewhat inherent in religion (maybe I’m wrong & need an attitude adjustment … who knows?).

The obvious problem with most world religions is that they necessarily view those who disagree with them as evil, heathen, heretics, and so on. This is true whether Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or even among different sects within those religious systems. Religion divides up the world according to a standard that cannot be reasoned with.

If you believe a god demands you think in a certain way … it becomes pretty hard to sway you with logic.

To quote Luther: “reason is devil’s greatest whore”

 

[josie_L]

Some believers are able to transcend this (because they’re fairly logical reasonable people). However, if you believe the bible is the inspired word of your god then you must believe that god views me as evil (because I don’t believe he exists).

I do believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and it states no where that God considers you, an unbeliever, evil, unless of course, you are simultaneously committing many mortal sins without repenting. Then, yes you are being evil and/or deserve to be called evil. Let’s call it what it is. Furthermore, It is not God who sends people to Hell, it is their own wickedness that does - their complete hatred of all that is good.

However, you make compromises because you really don’t want to view others (particularly those who don’t warrant such a label) as evil for such an arbitrary reason.

I will not compromise on the truth, and have not when I say I do not consider you evil for not believing, however, I would say it is detrimental to your soul (not implying you are going to Hell) by refusing to believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I do pray for you humble, I sense a lot of good in you and I also sense a lot of hurt. I am not trying to get all wishy washy on you but that is my perception of things, call it female/spiritual intuition.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

The reference to unbelievers (in the Bible) are for those who do not believe (in Jesus) and commit much sin , remember, there were quite a few people in the Bible who were considered righteous who were not believers (yet), think of the centurion. But in your case you have decided not to believe anymore? Do I know how God will judge you, not really, but I know that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and you gave that up? If this statement bothers you then there’s not much I can do about that, I’m trying to be as honest as I can be.

P.S. The Bible does not use the word beast for unbelievers, it does say however, that many will follow the anti-christ/beast.

I won’t follow an anti-Christ either … why? Because there’s no such thing! Christians have been waiting for this ellusive beast for nearly two thousand years. There’s always a crowd who tells us the end is imminent. Well, the only way life on earth as we know it will end in the foreseeable future is if mankind destroys himself (probably as the result of some religious war). The only other way I could imagine is if we are struck by an astroid (but even that’s pretty unlikely); or a deadly virus crops up.

Like I said previously I put my hope in the tangible, the things I know are true and do not have a mountain of circumstantial evidence telling me is false. Science, technology, diplomacy, free market economics, liberty, human rights and dignity for all peoples … these are things I know are real and I know have the potential to shape our world for the better.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

I will not compromise on the truth, and have not when I say I do not consider you evil for not believing, however, I would say it is detrimental to your soul (not implying you are going to Hell) by refusing to believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I do pray for you humble, I sense a lot of good in you and I also sense a lot of hurt. I am not trying to get all wishy washy on you but that is my perception of things, call it female/spiritual intuition.

I appreciate the kind words … but why do you think someone who doesn’t believe as you do is necessarily “hurting”? Isn’t that an arrogant view (to think only your religious system can provide happiness)? Furthermore, isn’t it stereotyping to say atheists are necessarily unhappy?

 

[josie_L]

I didn’t say “all” believers were bigots, but I do admit I view bigotry as somewhat inherent in religion (maybe I’m wrong & need an attitude adjustment … who knows?).

Yes, you do need an attitude adjustment.

The obvious problem with most world religions is that they necessarily view those who disagree with them as evil, heathen, heretics, and so on. This is true whether Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or even among different sects within those religious systems. Religion divides up the world according to a standard that cannot be reasoned with.

Christianity is different in that it requires a lot of love, patience, mercy, and forgiveness, this is why God states we are not to judge who will go to Heaven or Hell. I can say with conviction that certain people who are practicing heretical doctrines are not in and of themselves evil.

If you believe a god demands you think in a certain way … it becomes pretty hard to sway you with logic.

Ok, will it make you feel better if I said I don’t believe in Jesus/God, and that right now my IQ just went up 20 points (make that 30) , in fact, I already feel more logical. Praise the void, I’m free.

To quote Luther: “reason is devil’s greatest whore”

I never liked Luther.

 

[josie_L]

I appreciate the kind words … but why do you think someone who doesn’t believe as you do is necessarily “hurting”? Isn’t that an arrogant view (to think only your religious system can provide happiness)? Furthermore, isn’t it stereotyping to say atheists are necessarily unhappy?

You’re putting words in my mouth, I never stated the reasons as to why I thought you were hurting, I only said that I sensed you were hurting. I would say, however, it’s in the manner to which you respond to others that has made me think thusly; that there is more than what you are letting us in on (obviously).

 

[josie_L]

I won’t follow an anti-Christ either … why? Because there’s no such thing! Christians have been waiting for this ellusive beast for nearly two thousand years. There’s always a crowd who tells us the end is imminent. Well, the only way life on earth as we know it will end in the foreseeable future is if mankind destroys himself (probably as the result of some religious war). The only other way I could imagine is if we are struck by an astroid (but even that’s pretty unlikely); or a deadly virus crops up.

You don’t need to believe in the anti-christ, but evil exists nevertheless, whether we call it the anti-christ or not. Those who claim they know when the world will end are not following scripture, you did read the Bible, you should know that. Maybe religion and then again maybe not, I rather think it will be a combination of things that will end this world.

In the Bible, there is reference to the false prophet (a supposed ideology or person/s following that ideology) and the false lamb (someone or some ideology that parades itself as all that is good, much like secular humanism) that will do much harm to this world.

Like I said previously I put my hope in the tangible, the things I know are true and do not have a mountain of circumstantial evidence telling me is false. Science, technology, diplomacy, free market economics, liberty, human rights and dignity for all peoples … these are things I know are real and I know have the potential to shape our world for the better.

We all have to believe in something.

 

[prodigalson12]

josie, remember where I mentioned, that if we all completely ignore him, he will go away, for it’s pointless to keep posting when nobody is going to respond, that is the best way to handle a troll, and a troll he very much is.

 

[josie_L]

josie, remember where I mentioned, that if we all completely ignore him, he will go away, for it’s pointless to keep posting when nobody is going to respond, that is the best way to handle a troll, and a troll he very much is.

I’m not so sure he’s a troll, but I know that he is seeking something, whether that something is good or bad is not important, I will make good use of his time here, by at the very least softening his attitude towards religion or people of faith.

 

[josie_L]

please show me where I’ve cited biblical text incorrectly? You sound like an angry man to me … why are you such a hateful person? What value is Christ if you have such hatred toward others? Aren’t you the kind of guy the bible scorns?

OK … gotta love the warm embrace of Christianity

Kill the heretics, burn em alive, and praise god!!! What lunacy …

Stop baiting him!!! It’s not well done of you. And stop your stereotyping. It’s annoying. And If you think you’re better than Christians then start acting it. Because right now all I’m getting from this post, is a man bent on ridiculing others.

 

[adelore]

**Does it matter who is more Holy? **

I guess I never thought of a question like this before. I don’t see or compare myself to others, as more Holy, or not more Holy. Why would I? This is not for me to judge, only God would know that answer as He can see into each of our hearts. He knows our life and how we live it and worship Him.

I will say I do believe there are many people who are very Holy, this includes Catholics and Protestents. Just because someone may be Catholic or Protestent it really depends on their realitionship with God, not the “Church” they attend. There are many Catholics and Protestents “out there” who may not have a close relationship with God. Yet from the outside, they attend church, does this make them more Holy just because they attend Church/Mass every Sunday? Nope, not really, not if they are going just out of Habit, or it’s because they “have to.”

My answer…Only God knows who is Holy.

 

[josie_L]

I appreciate the kind words … but why do you think someone who doesn’t believe as you do is necessarily “hurting”? Isn’t that an arrogant view (to think only your religious system can provide happiness)? Furthermore, isn’t it stereotyping to say atheists are necessarily unhappy?

This is totally irrelevant to the post, but when you were a soldier, what caused you to leave the war? And how old were you when you were deployed?

 

[prodigalson12]

I’m not so sure he’s a troll, but I know that he is seeking something, whether that something is good or bad is not important, I will make good use of his time here, by at the very least softening his attitude towards religion or people of faith.

Jose, he’s clearly a troll, only here to elicit negative responses, nothing more. You cannot reason with him, I and many others here have tried. I don’t waste my time with atheists any more, they have rejected God, so I reject them, period, end of story. You cannot turn these lost ones back, trust me, I’ve tried. It’s like telling someone that the sky is blue when they insist there is no sky in the first place because they are blind.

 

[elvisman]

Jose, he’s clearly a troll, only here to elicit negative responses, nothing more. You cannot reason with him, I and many others here have tried. I don’t waste my time with atheists any more, they have rejected God, so I reject them, period, end of story. You cannot turn these lost ones back, trust me, I’ve tried. It’s like telling someone that the sky is blue when they insist there is no sky in the first place because they are blind.

You can never turn anyone back - only God can.

 

[josie_L]

**You can never **turn anyone back - only God can.

Yes, very true, elvis. How are you?

 

[elvisman]

Yes, very true, elvis. How are you?

Peachy, Josie - just peachy!
Hope all is going well with you my friend!