Does it really matter

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Lara said:
Two things that contradict one another can’t both be true. For instance, either same-sex sexual relationships are okay with God or they aren’t okay with God. Some Protestant religions actively promote these relationships as okay, and some as not okay. The fact that they differ means there has to be a higher authority. In this case, that higher authority is the Catholic Church and more to the point, God who leads the Catholic Church.

If I have a beam in my eye, it’s because I’m a sinner, not because I’m Catholic.
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Lara, that is my point. Apparently the Vatican is quite influenced with homosexuality. There are parishes in the US that cater to the homosexual community as well as priests coming out of the closet during Mass. So obviously, some Catholics think it is ok and others do not. Of course, the doctrine of the Church never changes, just the interpretation of it. Not so different from the Protestant situation. Peace.
 
When you say “priests coming out of the closest during Mass” don’t you really mean “a single priest revealed to his congregation that he had same sex tendencies”.

Those are two remarkably differing statements and I quite frankly don’t like your method.

From where I sit, the Vatican is not as you say “quite influenced with homosexuality”.
 
Our Lord did not found a generic group of vague believers. He founded His mystical Body on this earth - an organic whole that was tasked with spreading the word like yeast in dough. A group so selfless that they would gladly give their lives for the sake of the Body. Men and women who would agree to suffer for the remainder of their lives for the sake of that unified Body.

Why not return to your local parish and find out when they offer adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Go and sit before your Lord - present to you. Lay your doubts out before Him. Then just contemplate and be as patient with Him as He has been with yo. When you receive your confirmation, you will be changed. Doubt will melt like frost in the midday sun.

You have nothing to lose, only to recover that which is already lost.
 
Darryl_B said:
When you say “priests coming out of the closest during Mass” don’t you really mean “a single priest revealed to his congregation that he had same sex tendencies”.

Those are two remarkably differing statements and I quite frankly don’t like your method.

From where I sit, the Vatican is not as you say “quite influenced with homosexuality”.
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All I know is what I read. I frankly don’t like your method either so I guess we’re even. 😐
 
Mack26 said:
Genuine questions…it seems were all so torn over the petty details. When we should come together over the common Savior, Christ! … or maybe I’m a newbie who is way off .
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Our Lord instituted the Eucharist and did not lose any time celebrating it with his disciples on the road to Emmaus. Yes, I think the Eucharist matters a great deal to Our Lord, and that when he said, “Do this in memory of me,” he meant it. If you look at the account of the Institution of the Eucharist in Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, the importance becomes very clear:

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.

That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; but since we are judged by [the] Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. 1 Cor. 11:23-32

I don’t see how a Christian reads that and comes to the conclusion that the Eucharist is not important to the Lord or that a Christian might dismiss it as being of no account. That conclusion doesn’t make sense.

As for whether you pray to the saints or not, it is kind of like going through rehab all by yourself. It is theoretically possible, but why would you? Is the work not hard enough? Is there some assurance of success no matter how many graces you spurn? There isn’t. Why prefer the company of those who still labor under the work of trying to figure out how to become holy while disdaining the help of those who have had victory, and who by miracles worked by their intercession have been recognized by God as being reliable helpers in the work? It is not as if doing it the hard way is a sure thing.

I don’t know why you wouldn’t simply go to confession, come back, and avail yourself of the sacraments, especially the Holy Eucharist. It is theoretically possible for God to bring anyone to salvation, but why would you want to have to answer for refusing such a great gift and the opportunity offered by the memorial instituted by Our Lord himself for the good of His Body? Why stay away? What’s your reasoning?
 
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The Eucharist makes all the difference.

What if Protestants are Right about the Eucharist?
At first, it seems like such a revelation would be a tragedy. Receiving the Eucharist is the most intimate encounter with Jesus Christ possible this side of eternity. Suddenly to discover that this intimacy was a sham, and that what we thought was God was actually just bread, would be disheartening, to put the matter mildly. Worse, it would mean that those hours spent in adoration were something approaching idolatry rather than proper worship of God.

But the true tragedy would be greater still—it would mean that the Church has been wrong about the Eucharist from the beginning. For the earliest Christians universally believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. The well-respected early Church historian J.N.D. Kelly, a Protestant, has acknowledged that “Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood” (Early Christian Doctrines, 440).
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Gorgias said:
The Church doesn’t teach it that way…
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It does but understood properly. If you are in purgatory you are Christian, a Catholic in fact. It is possible you lived your life as something else. But at the personal judgment all who make their way to purgatory will have accepted the truth Faith. They will be Christians and Catholic.
 
exnihilo said:
It does but understood properly. If you are in purgatory you are Christian, a Catholic in fact.
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Yes… and no.

I’d buy the statement “if you’re in Purgatory then you’re a member of the ‘communion of the saints’”, but not “you’re a Catholic”. There are Catholics who like to say that – even though it really ticks off non-Catholic Christians! – but it isn’t really accurate. The Catholic Church won’t exist, per se, in heaven. That body was created by Christ for the benefit of us on earth. In heaven, we’ll merely be sons and daughters of God, experiencing the Beatific Vision. We’ll believe all the things that the Catholic Church teaches on earth – after all, we’ll know that they’re true, rather than just believing them! But, that doesn’t mean that we’ll all be “members of the Catholic Church” in heaven…

But, if what you’re attempting to say is merely that “those in the process of purgation will know Christ,” then sure… that makes sense.
 
Everyone in Heaven is part of the Church. That Church is the Catholic Church.
 
We will all have the Catholic Faith in purgatory and Heaven. You can’t get to purgatory or Heaven without having the Catholic Faith. So you can’t be in those places without the Catholic Faith. You may obtain this at the last moment but you will be Catholic in that sense if you escape Hell.
 
And there will be Catholics in hell. Sadly, some Catholics will reject Christ.
 
exnihilo said:
We will all have the Catholic Faith in purgatory and Heaven.
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Yep. Fair enough. We believe that the Catholic Church teaches the fullness of the truth, so naturally, we will all hold to the things the church teaches, in heaven. 👍
 
Well, was there something in the catholic faith that validly hindered you from spiritual fulfillment, assuming you went somewhere else because of “greener” pastures, that had fruit to bare. Is not then that valid hindrance worthy to “deal with”. I suppose that could be said of anyone finding deeper truths, experiences, fruits in another church. We should want all valid hindrances to be looked at, in hopes of elimination.
 
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Then I would recommend broadening your reading. Parroting is not a beautiful addition to one’s soul.
 
Just a thought about the Church as the Bride of Christ … earthly marriage is “until death us do part.”

Makes sense what you say about it being different in heaven.
Gorgias said:
That body was created by Christ for the benefit of us on earth. In heaven, we’ll merely be sons and daughters of God, experiencing the Beatific Vision.
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catholic1seeks said:
The Eucharist makes all the difference.

What if Protestants are Right about the Eucharist?
At first, it seems like such a revelation would be a tragedy. Receiving the Eucharist is the most intimate encounter with Jesus Christ possible this side of eternity. Suddenly to discover that this intimacy was a sham, and that what we thought was God was actually just bread, would be disheartening, to put the matter mildly. Worse, it would mean that those hours spent in adoration were something approaching idolatry rather than proper worship of God.

But the true tragedy would be greater still—it would mean that the Church has been wrong about the Eucharist from the beginning. For the earliest Christians universally believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. The well-respected early Church historian J.N.D. Kelly, a Protestant, has acknowledged that “Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood” (Early Christian Doctrines, 440).
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I think JND Kelly hit the nail on the head. “The consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Saviors body and blood”. This is quite different from actually becoming the literal body and blood. This I believe is how my church has understood the Last Supper and how it approaches Communion and how it handles the elements.
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Wannano said:
I think JND Kelly hit the nail on the head. “The consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Saviors body and blood”. This is quite different from actually becoming the literal body and blood.
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Yes, obviously, taking/treating/designating consecrated bread and wine to be something other than what they appear to be does not mean that the taker/treater/designator is correct in his or her assessment. So what’s your point?
 
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