Does it take courage to commit suicide?

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They would certainly be cowards under the value system we, as Christians, profess. For a religion where they are considered spiritual heroes for dying in the process of taking out other humans, would you say that also is cowardice? And would it be personally cowardly, or is it mitigated if it’s institutionalized?

Another related question is, what is considered “courageous” in protecting one’s own life? Like St. Maria Gordetti, who chose to end her life rather than compromise her virginity. Would it not have been more courageous for her to endure the injury and insult, and then have to live with it – than to accept a quick end to her life? I’m not saying I believe that – I’m only posing it as a question to ponder. On that last point, would it be morally required for a Catholic woman to “courageously” disregard police advice and refuse to submit to an attacker? :hmmm:

Alan
Alan, forgot to say that I also have pondered that same question!
 
I once heard it said that the word 'courage" was made up the french word for heart (c o u r) and rage, which could be translated ‘fire’. So basically, courage means ‘heart fire’, that is, something that keeps it pumping.

I would have to say suicide does have something to do with the heart and with the fire that should burn within it, but that it is not true courage to commit it… More like a mistaken identification of courage.
 
They would certainly be cowards under the value system we, as Christians, profess. For a religion where they are considered spiritual heroes for dying in the process of taking out other humans, would you say that also is cowardice? And would it be personally cowardly, or is it mitigated if it’s institutionalized?
It couldn’t be completely mitigated, because a “religion” that advocates terrorism and suicide bombing (just like one that advocates child sacrifice or cannibalism) has automatically falsified itself, and is self-accused as being a human work and not from God. Of course, in individual cases, there could be greater mitigations (despair, overwhelming life circumstances, or even the delusions of a mental illness), and the greater blame would attach to those who did the brainwashing or indoctrinating, but I doubt very much we’ll see any suicide bombers in Paradise, or even in Purgatory.
Another related question is, what is considered “courageous” in protecting one’s own life? Like St. Maria Gordetti, who chose to end her life rather than compromise her virginity. Would it not have been more courageous for her to endure the injury and insult, and then have to live with it – than to accept a quick end to her life? I’m not saying I believe that – I’m only posing it as a question to ponder. On that last point, would it be morally required for a Catholic woman to “courageously” disregard police advice and refuse to submit to an attacker? :hmmm:
That’s another interesting question. The traditional answer is that women such as St. Maria Goretti (whose case was exceptional; she was a young girl who could hardly use judo or karate) have shown what is called “heroic virtue”; besides, her death also lead to the repentance and conversion of her attacker. Having said this, the Church certainly accepts the legitimacy of self-defense, and where a question of faith or virtue is not involved (say, someone breaks into your house and threatens your family), there is a positive obligation to defend oneself and those under one’s care. (Which, extended to a nation, leads to the concept of a Just War, but that’s a topic for another day.) 😃
 
but I doubt very much we’ll see any suicide bombers in Paradise, or even in Purgatory.
Once Jeff Dunham asked his dummy “Achmed the Dead Terrorist” whether anybody told him it would be 72 female virgins. 😛
 
It takes no courage if you have never heard of the concept of hell or don’t believe in God. It take silly bravado to say that the suffering in this life is worse than suffering for all eternity.

I have tried suicide when I despaired as an unbeliever. If there is no such thing as eternity suicide is a rational choice in response to meaninglessness and suffering. I can’t understand people who hate suicide but approve of mercy killing. They are just saying that the less suffering there is and the more pleasure, the more valuable a person’s life is.
 
Some people think suicide is the coward’s way out, but personally, I think it is the ultimate way of taking control of your life.
That might be true, but it is a self defeating action though. It might be the most free choice you could possibly make in the sense that you made a life determining decision, and you ultimately had control over your life. But it ends your life at the same time. The one big decision you make ends up being your own destruction.

By the way, it think this is the perspective of one of the characters in Dostoevsky’s Demons. He ends up killing himself because he believes it is the ultimate act of freedom.
 
It takes no courage if you have never heard of the concept of hell or don’t believe in God. It take silly bravado to say that the suffering in this life is worse than suffering for all eternity.
Yes, but if you are certain you are going to Hell anyway, what difference does it really make?
 
No. It takes a lot of despair and fear of the world to commit suicide.

If you are thinking about suicide and you find that you can’t go through with it, that means that even a sliver of hope remains in your spirit.
I am a mental health social worker and it takes a state of total despair that is the culmination of hopelessness that the situation/life will never change and helplessness/powerlessness to effect any change that would make them want to go on living. So they see no hope and no way to get out of the situation that would make a gamble to go on living worthwhile.

Since humans possess an inborn “will to live” it is generally believed that one cannot usually be suicidal and in one’s right mind. If someone is seriously contemplating suicide and/or talking seriously about a plan or desire to harm themselves they need immediate hospitalization. Most ER’s have a mobile response crisis team that comes in and evaluates them and they are trained to spot trickery and malingering (pretending to be sick) and will then recommend admission to the psychiatric unit or referral to a psychiatrist later (if it is determined they weren’t serious).

The lack of hope and power to change the situation is usually the big factor. Many who do it have been suffering horrifically with depression, anxiety, and sometimes hallucinations and hearing voices and never tell anyone how badly they feel. Some who are massively depressed will usually just get to the point where they “can’t take it anymore” We need to always remember all of those who suffer with mental illness and those who love them.

The church no longer says that people who commit suicide automatically go to hell due to the large number who are mentally ill and that they are in God’s hands. One can also still have a Catholic funeral and burial. It’s not being a coward, it’s hurting really bad and compassion and a watchful eye on anyone who is appearing depressed or exhibiting radical mood changes is key to seeing what could be a life threatening situation.

God bless
 
Unless you are 100% certain, you are making a foolish mistake. Even the remotest chance that you can be saved should be heeded to in the face of eternal suffering. 100% is equivalent to 10^10^10 out of 10^10^10. Even 99% certainty is foolish in the face of eternity–forever, never ending, no second chances. Eternity is not even the age of the universe dated by naturalists. Those who ridicule Pascal’s wager do not apprehend probability.
 
If you are thinking about suicide and you find that you can’t go through with it, that means that even a sliver of hope remains in your spirit.
If you can’t go through with it, it means you are a true coward and an even bigger failure that you thought you were. So you’ll try harder next time.
 
Unless you are 100% certain, you are making a foolish mistake. Even the remotest chance that you can be saved should be heeded to in the face of eternal suffering. 100% is equivalent to 10^10^10 out of 10^10^10. Even 99% certainty is foolish in the face of eternity–forever, never ending, no second chances. Eternity is not even the age of the universe dated by naturalists.
I am 100% certain. Why? Because I have no reason to believe anything to the contrary.
 
Maybe, does it take greater courage to face God? Could suicide be a mistaken path to try and face God in the wrong way? Maybe they erroneously felt God was trying to defeat them rather than viewing their troubles as the only way God could bring them closer to Him and thus bring them out of misery?
Maybe, does it take greater courage to face God? ----- > If the person knows God, in all His mercy and grace and justice, they would tremble at the idea of facing God after suicide in such a horrible spiritual state.

Maybe they erroneously felt God was trying to defeat them rather than viewing their troubles as the only way God could bring them closer to Him and thus bring them out of misery? ----->
This is basically putting God’s Mercy and Justice to the test. He asks us to pick up our crosses and follow Him. And if they have that idea, then truly that is a very erroneous idea thinking that God pushed them to the limit to commit suicide so they they will be taken out of misery when the truth is that something else worse than misery will be waiting for them, Hell. I suggest that we go back to the story of Job in the bible.
 
Most people would think of sinning as easy.
I would think it takes cowardice; for those who commit suicide are trying to run away from what is aching them. Though many probably do it in a state of anguish mental disorder. Those who plan a calculated act of suicide are committing premeditated murder…
 
I would think it takes cowardice; for those who commit suicide are trying to run away from what is aching them. Though many probably do it in a state of anguish mental disorder. Those who plan a calculated act of suicide are committing premeditated murder…
3 thumbs up!
 
I am 100% certain. Why? Because I have no reason to believe anything to the contrary.
Then you have not checked the facts. Consider the Eucharistic miracles, Marian apparitions, testimonies of converts who have experienced the Presence of God. No one can be 100% certain God of not existing, but one can be 100% certain after meeting Him. In the face of eternity even an uncertainty of 9e-(10^10^10) is a stupid bet. I remember reading the bible as a skeptic, and when Jesus claimed to have seen a person when he was not physically present made me wonder if He saw me reading the bible even back then at that very moment. If indeed there is the slightest chance that He is God, and that He claimed that He would be found when we sought Him, the rational conclusion is to seek Him, even if you are wrong. Eternity is forever.
 
The problem we have is we are trying to tell a person they should care about what God is going to do with them for eternity. Their question is, where’s God now? And I think they have a point. This wonderful but elusive God that doesn’t do anything basically except watch us and judge us, and then after we’re dead we get the feedback? That’s the Bad News.

If we actually knew how to invite God to work in our lives to the point where we are all walking gospels – which theoretically if we weren’t so hard-headed we would be – then we would know how to listen to and comfort somebody rather than take an already confused individual and tell them they should care about about a God who only cares about what happens to them after they die. If that’s the case, then maybe they should go ahead and do it so they can finally meet this “God.”

The main things you have to remember with suicide cases is listening, and empathy. It is almost always unwise to offer any suggestions especially at first. You need to listen and reflect back to them, “so were you feeling more angry, or just left out when that happened?” Ask them these sorts of questions to verify you understand not only the story but how it made them feel. Ask intelligent questions, not just “uh huh” or “then what” like, “wait, was this the same guy you were talking about who had just yelled at you?”

And don’t say, “I know how you feel,” because you don’t, even if you’ve been suicidal yourself. You may say, “I felt pretty desperate once and it kept me down for months,” or if they have a particularly compelling story, “wow, I can’t even imagine what that would be like.” I’d rather “not imagine” than to say, “I know your feelings,” because as soon as you claim to know them you set a flag that may be hard to reset.

This could be the first time EVER that the person ever got to actually express him/herself. That’s because most people either react in horror, leaving them thinking “I knew you wouldn’t want to hear my story,” or tell them it’s a bad idea, “not only is life unmanageable, I’m stupid on top of it,” or try to fix them. These are the biggest obstacles the person may have met in trying to tell their story.

Rather, you might say, “wow, that sounds like a pretty bad situation. I can understand why you want to get away from it.” This validates them as thinking people – SOMEBODY finally heard that what’s going on in their life is worth escaping. But it does not validate the suicide because the next step if you have a willing caller could be, “I wonder how you could just get away from the pressure for a little while and maybe it would help you regain some sanity?” Asking as an “I wonder” question rather than a "you should … " statement opens their mind rather than making it more defensive. It says to them, “yes, you need to escape but maybe we don’t need a permanent fix to a temporary problem.”

You can sometimes tell them about “permanent fix to a temporary problem,” depending on how the conversation goes, but I’d be fairly sparing with it unless you get to know the person’s conversational style pretty good.

Do not preach to them like, “you need to have courage so you wouldn’t want to chicken out and end your life like this.” To them, courage is FINALLY getting it together and going through with their plans of self-destruct. To them, the fact they haven’t already killed themselves could be testimony to their cowardice. So don’t even throw around the “coward” thing unless you want to risk giving them the double-dog-dare.

I used to counsel suicidal children on a Youth Crisis Hotline. The idea is to empathize with them by listening and showing them you want to hear them out. Then you can try to reframe it – they may not have. But the first things is to hear the story. After that it gets more customized for each caller. Give them ideas without preaching. Questions are usually better than “answers.”

Oh, and don’t try to tell them about what killing themselves will do to their afterlife, unless THEY bring it up.

Alan
 
Once Jeff Dunham asked his dummy “Achmed the Dead Terrorist” whether anybody told him it would be 72 female virgins. 😛
LOL! 😃

Not to mention that, even if he does make it to Paradise (out of, well, invincible ignorance!), there is “no marrying or giving in marriage there!” 😉
 
The problem we have is we are trying to tell a person they should care about what God is going to do with them for eternity. Their question is, where’s God now? And I think they have a point. This wonderful but elusive God that doesn’t do anything basically except watch us and judge us, and then after we’re dead we get the feedback? That’s the Bad News.

If we actually knew how to invite God to work in our lives to the point where we are all walking gospels – which theoretically if we weren’t so hard-headed we would be – then we would know how to listen to and comfort somebody rather than take an already confused individual and tell them they should care about about a God who only cares about what happens to them after they die. If that’s the case, then maybe they should go ahead and do it so they can finally meet this “God.”

The main things you have to remember with suicide cases is listening, and empathy. It is almost always unwise to offer any suggestions especially at first. You need to listen and reflect back to them, “so were you feeling more angry, or just left out when that happened?” Ask them these sorts of questions to verify you understand not only the story but how it made them feel. Ask intelligent questions, not just “uh huh” or “then what” like, “wait, was this the same guy you were talking about who had just yelled at you?”

And don’t say, “I know how you feel,” because you don’t, even if you’ve been suicidal yourself. You may say, “I felt pretty desperate once and it kept me down for months,” or if they have a particularly compelling story, “wow, I can’t even imagine what that would be like.” I’d rather “not imagine” than to say, “I know your feelings,” because as soon as you claim to know them you set a flag that may be hard to reset.

This could be the first time EVER that the person ever got to actually express him/herself. That’s because most people either react in horror, leaving them thinking “I knew you wouldn’t want to hear my story,” or tell them it’s a bad idea, “not only is life unmanageable, I’m stupid on top of it,” or try to fix them. These are the biggest obstacles the person may have met in trying to tell their story.

Rather, you might say, “wow, that sounds like a pretty bad situation. I can understand why you want to get away from it.” This validates them as thinking people – SOMEBODY finally heard that what’s going on in their life is worth escaping. But it does not validate the suicide because the next step if you have a willing caller could be, “I wonder how you could just get away from the pressure for a little while and maybe it would help you regain some sanity?” Asking as an “I wonder” question rather than a "you should … " statement opens their mind rather than making it more defensive. It says to them, “yes, you need to escape but maybe we don’t need a permanent fix to a temporary problem.”

You can sometimes tell them about “permanent fix to a temporary problem,” depending on how the conversation goes, but I’d be fairly sparing with it unless you get to know the person’s conversational style pretty good.

Do not preach to them like, “you need to have courage so you wouldn’t want to chicken out and end your life like this.” To them, courage is FINALLY getting it together and going through with their plans of self-destruct. To them, the fact they haven’t already killed themselves could be testimony to their cowardice. So don’t even throw around the “coward” thing unless you want to risk giving them the double-dog-dare.

I used to counsel suicidal children on a Youth Crisis Hotline. The idea is to empathize with them by listening and showing them you want to hear them out. Then you can try to reframe it – they may not have. But the first things is to hear the story. After that it gets more customized for each caller. Give them ideas without preaching. Questions are usually better than “answers.”

Oh, and don’t try to tell them about what killing themselves will do to their afterlife, unless THEY bring it up.

Alan
FANTASTIC ADVICE. 👍👍 I worked on a suicide hotline for adults for close to 2 yrs.
 
This does not help anyone that is contemplating suicide…and sadly enough I’ve been there…and here recently.

One already feels low, and like a coward for allowing “the sadness” to overwhelm them in the first place and even get to the point of thinking about suicide.

So many things factor into what leads one to think about taking their own lives…is it a courageous act? NO.

But when people are in the despair that they are in…you never know what lies in ones heart…tread lightly when speaking of suicide…it’s not an option that people want…it’s the last option when hope seems to have left…
 
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