Does it take courage to commit suicide?

[InJesusItrust]

I would have tried suicide a third time had God not answered my prayer and showed me His presence for once in my life. If you cry out to Jesus in despair He can console you. There really is no rational reason to live in unending suffering in life without God, so God is the answer, even if no one wants to hear it.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Then you have not checked the facts. Consider the Eucharistic miracles, Marian apparitions, testimonies of converts who have experienced the Presence of God. No one can be 100% certain God of not existing, but one can be 100% certain after meeting Him. In the face of eternity even an uncertainty of 9e-(10^10^10) is a stupid bet. I remember reading the bible as a skeptic, and when Jesus claimed to have seen a person when he was not physically present made me wonder if He saw me reading the bible even back then at that very moment. If indeed there is the slightest chance that He is God, and that He claimed that He would be found when we sought Him, the rational conclusion is to seek Him, even if you are wrong. Eternity is forever.

Maybe I’m not understanding what you are saying, but I never said I don’t believe that God exists; I said I am 100% certain I’m going to Hell because I have no reason to believe I won’t be.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

If you cry out to Jesus in despair He can console you.

I’ve tried. He doesn’t answer. Never has.

There really is no rational reason to live in unending suffering in life without God, so God is the answer, even if no one wants to hear it.

I’m willing to hear it. Believe me, I’m all ears. But I’m getting tired of waiting.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Maybe I’m not understanding what you are saying, but I never said I don’t believe that God exists; I said I am 100% certain I’m going to Hell because I have no reason to believe I won’t be.

Sounds like you’ve been lied to, like many of us are lied to our whole lives.

It’s as if the default destination for us is hell unless we can do something pretty darned good to keep that from being the case.

I reject that as nonsense. But this is what we’re constantly told. We’re not worthy. We don’t measure up. Nothing we can do will be good enough. These things may be technically true but they have the wrong connotation… That’s because Jesus already got us in the club. We can’t earn our way into the kingdom, but it isn’t because we are miserable wretches; it is because we already have access!

We don’t have to measure up to any self-righteous person’s yardsticks. The only way we go to hell is if we make an intentional separation from God. Sometimes the going mentality sounds like just the opposite.

Alan

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Sounds like you’ve been lied to, like many of us are lied to our whole lives.

It’s as if the default destination for us is hell unless we can do something pretty darned good to keep that from being the case.

I reject that as nonsense. But this is what we’re constantly told. We’re not worthy. We don’t measure up. Nothing we can do will be good enough. These things may be technically true but they have the wrong connotation… That’s because Jesus already got us in the club. We can’t earn our way into the kingdom, but it isn’t because we are miserable wretches; it is because we already have access!

We don’t have to measure up to any self-righteous person’s yardsticks. The only way we go to hell is if we make an intentional separation from God. Sometimes the going mentality sounds like just the opposite.

Alan

I don’t have the time or space to get into my life story. My no one “lied” to me in the way you suggest. I simply know, deep i my heart, that God has my number and I am not one of his chosen people. He has already made up his mind that I will go to Hell when I die. Spare me the talk that “God does not send us to Hell; we send ourselves to Hell.” Well, in this case He is making the decision; not me.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Lost Sheep… Just read your Butch Hancock quote on your member’s page and laughed. I know that has nothing to do with this thread topic, but just wanted to say it anyway. Awesome quote! LOL!

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Maybe, does it take greater courage to face God? ----- > If the person knows God, in all His mercy and grace and justice, they would tremble at the idea of facing God after suicide in such a horrible spiritual state.

Maybe they erroneously felt God was trying to defeat them rather than viewing their troubles as the only way God could bring them closer to Him and thus bring them out of misery? ----->
This is basically putting God’s Mercy and Justice to the test. He asks us to pick up our crosses and follow Him. And if they have that idea, then truly that is a very erroneous idea thinking that God pushed them to the limit to commit suicide so they they will be taken out of misery when the truth is that something else worse than misery will be waiting for them, Hell. I suggest that we go back to the story of Job in the bible.

I was speaking/guessing from more of an unbeliever or agnostic’s view, not a believer’s. Sorry, I guess I didn’t make that clear. I’m thinking it would be hard for an agnostic or unbeliever to face the truth of God’s existence… and that would take courage because it means facing your sinful self.

Anyway, I agree with what you said above. I think I must be rambling. Thinking out loud.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I don’t have the time or space to get into my life story. My no one “lied” to me in the way you suggest. I simply know, deep i my heart, that God has my number and I am not one of his chosen people. He has already made up his mind that I will go to Hell when I die. Spare me the talk that “God does not send us to Hell; we send ourselves to Hell.” Well, in this case He is making the decision; not me.

I don’t need to know your life story, but you can spare me the “I know what God’s going to do with me.”

Because you don’t.

You think you “know” deep in your heart, so you’re above and beyond listening to any other opinions.

Whether God sends you to hell or not after you die, your words have power and they’re probably keeping you in constant hell on earth.

Alan

 

[InJesusItrust]

I’ve tried. He doesn’t answer. Never has.

I’m willing to hear it. Believe me, I’m all ears. But I’m getting tired of waiting.

When I say seek God, I mean with all your heart. Cry many tears of contrition, put away all the sin in yourself (I had to renounce porn and masturbation) and take every opportunity to draw closer to God. In short you must become a lunatic to the rest of the world and not care what they think, even if you lose your friends and family because they think you are crazy.

Have you tried wearing a Miraculous Medal?

I’ll pray for you.

 

[thistle]

Most people would think of sinning as easy.

NO. Its a coward’s way out.

 

[Bezant]

Yes and no…

I mean… I saw the question posted on another board - secular. It kind of rattled me when I thought about it. I wanted to post it here because I wanted to see what the catholic response was. And maybe I wanted to just ask the question so that others might see a different response than one you might find on a secular message board somewhere. I think I just didn’t know what to think.

To be honest, I felt maybe I should not have posted this question here- I was afraid it was too controversial (and almost deleted it), but at the same time I wanted it to be discussed. From what I’ve read on the topic, its seems there is a lot of confusion these days over suicide (the topic of euthanasia seems to be brought up more and more). I should know better as a Catholic, but I guess from reading so much secular views to get a broader view on a subject, one has a tendency to start falling for any lies of the enemy… perhaps maybe I was (believing it could be an ok option-shivers). I know there are a lot of people hurting out there. (It was the news article about there being more deaths from suicide than auto accidents in the US that brought all this on.)

I wouldn’t advocate suicide- no way. Its horrific… but I can’t say I think that of the of the people who do it themselves. It couldn’t be an easy thing to decide, I think and I guess in some way that got me stumped as to how I should think about it. Perhaps I posted more out of compassion? Confusion? Frustration? Fear for souls? You wish you could have reached out in some way, I guess.

I agree full heartedly with RemRam’s reply.

chaela_may- so you mean to say then that they are being pushed towards it, and not brave to face and fight back or even know enough to recognize that which is pushing them? I think that is really keen and spot on- perhaps why suicide is so problematic- they don’t know enough about what is going on to fight back.

SilverCamellia - I’m glad you are still here. I’m sorry you had gone through that. May Jesus keep you close to His Heart.

I just wanted to check, and to be honest I’m surprised no one else did because it’s an unusual question.

 

[CompSciGuy]

By that logic, anything that is difficult cannot be sinful which is clearly false. It’s still early for me and the coffee hasn’t kicked in yet, but there are many sins which require quite a bit of effort. I’m sure others can rattle off a few.

Pre-meditative murder is one. Systematic genocide, burglary, and destruction of property to name a few more.

 

[chaela_may]

chaela_may- so you mean to say then that they are being pushed towards it, and not brave to face and fight back or even know enough to recognize that which is pushing them? I think that is really keen and spot on- perhaps why suicide is so problematic- they don’t know enough about what is going on to fight back.

i’m not saying that those who attempt suicide (whether or not they’re successful) are lacking in courage; i’m saying that regardless of the amount of courage (whether they have a lot or only a little or anywhere in between), there are other things that can outweigh how brave you are and how able you are to cope with whatever situation that you’re in. a person can be very courageous, but also very depressed, for example.

I’ll be honest, I watched a film (against my better judgement) about suicides on the golden gate bridge. At the end there was a gentleman who committed suicide. I know I am not the only one who felt horrified to watch it, even though we knew it was coming. I think there is a certain sense of … NO! Hold on!!! You want him to wait on things, hold him, or something. Its traumatic. I felt like I just witnessed a good soul (God loves all) get overwhelmed by demons- like you could almost see it occurring before he jumped, when it didn’t have to be that way at all.

When I read more about his life, I felt it was no wonder how he succumbed to it (No father all his life, no real close family, he also knew growing up that his mother, when she found out she was pregnant with him, was planning to have an abortion, and other life disappointments) , yet it still didn’t have to end that way. I often wonder if he knew and saw the outpouring for him now… now that 1,000’s of people witnessed his action that day and had such an outpouring of compassion, would he have gone through with it? It haunts me and its been several months since I watched it.

lesson learned. next time, don’t watch movies against your better judgement.

also, i think that suicide is like this for just about everyone who attempts it. (i shy from saying that it is like that for every single person because using absolutes generally makes a person sound arrogant.) i doubt very seriously that there is full consent for the vast majority of them.

I once heard it said that the word 'courage" was made up the french word for heart (c o u r) and rage, which could be translated ‘fire’. So basically, courage means ‘heart fire’, that is, something that keeps it pumping.

I would have to say suicide does have something to do with the heart and with the fire that should burn within it, but that it is not true courage to commit it… More like a mistaken identification of courage.

etymonline.com/index.php?term=courage&allowed_in_frame=0

 

[jmcrae]

If you can’t go through with it, it means you are a true coward and an even bigger failure that you thought you were. So you’ll try harder next time.

Speculating why other people do things is almost pointless, since we can’t read minds, and people who commit suicide aren’t around to tell us what they were really thinking about.

Sometimes if you’re lucky they leave a note to say good-bye, but even that could just be something they said to make you feel better, instead of the truth.

There are those who speculate that suicide is the ultimate act of hatred, not only of themselves, but of the whole world. That in killing themselves, the intent is really to kill everything that is alive, and to destroy every beautiful thing, forever - which from their own point of view, is exactly what happens.

The best and only thing anybody can do is leave them in the hands of God. He alone knows what’s really going on with them.

 

[chaela_may]

I don’t have the time or space to get into my life story. My no one “lied” to me in the way you suggest. I simply know, deep i my heart, that God has my number and I am not one of his chosen people. He has already made up his mind that I will go to Hell when I die. Spare me the talk that “God does not send us to Hell; we send ourselves to Hell.” Well, in this case He is making the decision; not me.

why do you say that?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

It depends on the situation.

Best answer so far.

People commit suicide for many different reasons.
Courage may not be a factor at all.
God alone is their judge. Not us.

 

[waitingforHim]

I am 100% certain. Why? Because I have no reason to believe anything to the contrary.

then the person is a coward for not fighting to get to heaven.
Forgiveness is available until the moment of death, and those who can’t change the way they live or can’t part with things or practices that take them away from God are cowards for not fighting against them (barring mental problems and situations out of their control)

again im not judging, but people are given the ability to find God and he can certainly fill them with His goodness. You have to be able to draw the line and say yes there is a point where no amount of effort is ever going to work, and a point where the person perceives moving closer to God as being too difficult.

 

[waitingforHim]

I don’t have the time or space to get into my life story. My no one “lied” to me in the way you suggest. I simply know, deep i my heart, that God has my number and I am not one of his chosen people. He has already made up his mind that I will go to Hell when I die. Spare me the talk that “God does not send us to Hell; we send ourselves to Hell.” Well, in this case He is making the decision; not me.

sorry you feel that way
i will be praying for you

 

[mexolic]

If suicide were that easy, more people would be doing it. I think many people who contemplate suicide grapple with it in their conscious. Suicide is murder. Even though the fifth commandment is “though shall not kill”, the more precise translation is “murder”. Would it take courage to murder someone? It’s a violation of God’s commandment. Therefore would it take courage to murder one’s self?

 

[HansTrappist]

Nobody in their right mind commits suicide or other violent acts for that matter. Sure, some may freely do so but I would wager that most either have mental/emotional issues or are possessed by demons.

Just look at most of the big news stories this year like Adam Lanza, and the naked man who was eating another person’s face, and the people that have been pushing other people in front of trains lately, etc. Secular society would like us to believe that all these kind of incidents are simply mental health issues easily treated: this is the materialist, reductionist approach and in some cases might be true. But I would wager that in most cases, the demonic is involved. I think there is a real epidemic in this country and world (one the Devil does not want any attention drawn to) of demonic possession. I once heard an exorcist give a talk where he said that many possessed people appear quite calm and rational most of the time - the demon or demons like to hide and it is only when they are commanded to identify themselves and leave that they get dramatic.