Does Jesus know all?

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DeProfundis1

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I just can’t reconcile these passages. Jesus claims that something is unknown to him, yet he is God right? But then the disciples say that they belieive he knows everything. God in the OT knows all, so should Jesus not share this?

John 16:29-30
Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.”

Mark 13:32
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Matthew 24:36
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Isaiah 46:9-10
I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.

Job 37:16
Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit.

Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.
 
DeProfundis1 said:
I just can’t reconcile these passages. Jesus claims that something is unknown to him, yet he is God right? But then the disciples say that they belieive he knows everything. God in the OT knows all, so should Jesus not share this?

John 16:29-30
Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.”

Mark 13:32
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Matthew 24:36
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Isaiah 46:9-10
I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.

Job 37:16
Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit.

Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.
Click to expand...
Jesus is God and He is Man.
He learnt as every man. when He went to School, he learnt as every man learnt.
But as God, He knows everything.

A little comparison. You are soul, bright, strong, invisible, capable of fast learning. Yet, as you are in a human body, you are slow learner, visible, weak and so on… But after death, you will know what you can do, 1 million fold of what you do now.
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
Jesus is God and He is Man.
He learnt as every man. when He went to School, he learnt as every man learnt.
But as God, He knows everything.

A little comparison. You are soul, bright, strong, invisible, capable of fast learning. Yet, as you are in a human body, you are slow learner, visible, weak and so on… But after death, you will know what you can do, 1 million fold of what you do now.
Click to expand...
But in John 16:29-30, Christ had not died yet and the disciples were saying he knows everything. So are the disciples account not accurate? But then we have to question everything else if so.

Also, if Jesus was limited in this way, what makes him God? Knowledge? Certaintly not miracles, the prophets have been given them. But we see he lacks some knowledge.

Numbers 23:19
“God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.”

So is God changing his mind, so now he does not know everything?

It just doesn’t make sense because,

Isaiah 46:9-10
“I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.”

Job 37:16
“Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.”

Isaiah 40:25
“To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.
 
DeProfundis1… your concern is one which was shared by many Christians through history. In fact, not all the manuscripts have “Nor the son” in Matthew 24:36. Apparently some were reluctant to attribute ignorance to Jesus and didn’t put that in the text.

Jesus is speaking about the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. … But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. (Matthew 24:34,36)

The temple was destroyed within one generation of Jesus’ telling the disciples that it would happen. Jesus clearly knew that it would happen and the general time it would take place but it is also clear that he claimed ingnorance of the exact hour and day when it would take place.

I don’t know the answer, but I have an idea.

Jesus says that he did not know, but he does not say that he was incapable of knowing. I think Jesus didn’t simply didn’t ask the Father for that information.

Remember that Jesus drew all his strength from God the Father, praying all the time to the Father, even crying to the Father in the garden on the night before he died. He took the form of a slave, obedient to death, even death on a cross. I think that as God Jesus could have known, but as a human he simply didn’t ask the Father.

He clearly knows that it will happen, and the general time it will take place, but not the exact hour, and he does not want to tell the disciples the exact time and date because he wants them to remain vigilant. If he told them that 1.2 million Jews would be killed and that the temple would be destroyed at 4:00 PM on July 30 in 70AD, they would have become lax, and boastful, and full of pride.

Right after this passage - the Olivet Discourse - about the destruction of the temple, the end of the Old Kingdom and the establishment of his new kingdom which is the Church - right after this discourse Jesus launches into the parable about the faithful and unfaithful servant.

***…the servant’s master will come on an unexpected day *and at an unknown hour… (Matthew 24:50)

He doesn’t want them to become lax and lazy and boastful. He wants them to stay vigilant. He wanted them to watch carefully, and note everything that was to take place exactly as he told them, and when it began to happen, they could begin to escape, and when it did happen, they would believe and know that their being saved from the destruction of Jerusalem was a gift from God. His idea clearly worked. Not one Christian was killed in the destruction of Jerusalem. They had all fled to the mountains.

When they had gathered together they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He answered them, It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has established by his own authority. (Acts 1:6-7)

Concerning times and seasons, brothers, you have no need for anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief at night. (1 Thessalonians 5:2)

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, (2 Peter 3:10)

***Remember then what you received and heard; keep that, and repent. If you will not awake, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come *upon you. (Revelation 16:3)

The New Testament is thick with the idea of vigilance. Standing watch for the coming of the Lord in the middle of the night is one of the reasons why monks get up at 3:30 and pray - they are standing vigil and will be ready for Jesus when he comes unexpectedly.

So the short answer is, I think, that Jesus simply didn’t ask the Father for the exact time and date.

-Tim-
 
Jesus is divine person, but with two natures, divine and human.

Jesus as a divine person therefore knew everything that ever was, is, or will be.

Jesus in his human nature could increase in knowledge experimentally as a human.
He could feel different objects, and experience seeing color thru human eyes,
tast different flavors of food, and so on.

As divine, Jesus knew all of this already, but not experimentally in a human way.

But when He said that no one knows the hour, not even himself, IMO, he was speaking in a loose sense, meaning that he wasn’t ready to devulge that knowledge. It was polite way of saying that it isn’t any of your concern.

Just a few thoughts.
 
DeProfundis1 said:
I just can’t reconcile these passages. Jesus claims that something is unknown to him, yet he is God right? But then the disciples say that they belieive he knows everything. God in the OT knows all, so should Jesus not share this?

John 16:29-30
Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.”

Mark 13:32
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Matthew 24:36
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Isaiah 46:9-10
I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.

Job 37:16
Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit.

Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.
Click to expand...
It is difficult to reconcile such seemingly contradicting Scriptures and Knowledge/Revelation… I think part of the problem lies in our inability to surrender our intellect and ego…

I find that there are clues to, if not full comprehension, at least accepting God’s Way above ours…

It is Revealed that Jesus is God and that He existed with God (the Father) since the Beginning… so Jesus is God.

It is Revealed that Jesus is Eternal; God is the only Eternal Being, ergo, Jesus is God.

It is Revealed that Jesus Created everything that exists and that nothing came into existence but through Him… OK, OK, Jesus is God!

…then Jesus states something like ‘no one knows, not even the Son of man, only the Father knows…’ or ‘…the Father is stronger than all…’ ‘…the Son of man must die…’

…wow… Confucius might have been confused at reading through such revelations… but, luckily, we do not have to go at it alone (1 Coritnthings 2:1-16); it is the Holy Spirit that can grant us the ability to understand that Scriptures are not in conflict… that Jesus as that Incarnate Word did not cease to be Divine, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (Philippians 2:6-8), but simply opted to put aside His Divinity (Omnipotence) in order to become like us, in everything but sin, so that He would be able to take our place as the Wrath of God had to be released against sin (Colossians 1:15-23)… and, as the Lamb of God, Jesus did not come to Reveal everything (St. John 16:12-15) but to Save us (St. John 3:16-21)… so in His Capacity as the Son of man (Lamb of God) Jesus did not need to Reveal anything outside of the Salvific Plan…

…the clearer comparison that I can offer is the fact that only when the Time had arriaved were Jesus’ persuers able to take hold of Him, imprison Him, torture Him, and put Him to death… all other times Jesus simply walked away from the bloodthisty mobs that wished to kill Him…

…hope this helps!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
DeProfundis1 said:
But in John 16:29-30, Christ had not died yet and the disciples were saying he knows everything. So are the disciples account not accurate? But then we have to question everything else if so.

Also, if Jesus was limited in this way, what makes him God? Knowledge? Certaintly not miracles, the prophets have been given them. But we see he lacks some knowledge.

Numbers 23:19
“God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.”

So is God changing his mind, so now he does not know everything?

It just doesn’t make sense because,

Isaiah 46:9-10
“I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.”

Job 37:16
“Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.”

Isaiah 40:25
“To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.
Click to expand...
…the problem is in how we interprete Scriptures… when God sent Jonas to preach Jonas refused… he understood that God would forgive the sin of the people if they repented… Jonas was given a tiny window into God’s Reasoning: you wish to die because of something that you’ve done nothing for… and I’m not to seek that man should not die?

God does not change His Mind but makes ample efforts to grant us Salvation… it is part of the Mystery of Mercy (Isaiah’s Suffering Servant) where God Himself becomes a lowly servant of man by taking on a likeness of man and submitting Himself to man’s injustice in order to Save humanity… He retains the final Word on Who, What, When, and How on both Creation and Salvation.

…as for the miracles… you are comparing seeds to the farmer: seeds are alloted space, time, water, and energy by the farmer that determines what, how much, where, and how long to allow the various seeds to be sowed, develop, and live…

Maran atha!

Angel
 
TimothyH said:
DeProfundis1… your concern is one which was shared by many Christians through history. In fact, not all the manuscripts have “Nor the son” in Matthew 24:36. Apparently some were reluctant to attribute ignorance to Jesus and didn’t put that in the text.

Jesus is speaking about the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. … But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. (Matthew 24:34,36)

The temple was destroyed within one generation of Jesus’ telling the disciples that it would happen. Jesus clearly knew that it would happen and the general time it would take place but it is also clear that he claimed ingnorance of the exact hour and day when it would take place.

I don’t know the answer, but I have an idea.

Jesus says that he did not know, but he does not say that he was incapable of knowing. I think Jesus didn’t simply didn’t ask the Father for that information.

Remember that Jesus drew all his strength from God the Father, praying all the time to the Father, even crying to the Father in the garden on the night before he died. He took the form of a slave, obedient to death, even death on a cross. I think that as God Jesus could have known, but as a human he simply didn’t ask the Father.

He clearly knows that it will happen, and the general time it will take place, but not the exact hour, and he does not want to tell the disciples the exact time and date because he wants them to remain vigilant. If he told them that 1.2 million Jews would be killed and that the temple would be destroyed at 4:00 PM on July 30 in 70AD, they would have become lax, and boastful, and full of pride.

Right after this passage - the Olivet Discourse - about the destruction of the temple, the end of the Old Kingdom and the establishment of his new kingdom which is the Church - right after this discourse Jesus launches into the parable about the faithful and unfaithful servant.

***…the servant’s master will come on an unexpected day ***and at an unknown hour… (Matthew 24:50)

He doesn’t want them to become lax and lazy and boastful. He wants them to stay vigilant. He wanted them to watch carefully, and note everything that was to take place exactly as he told them, and when it began to happen, they could begin to escape, and when it did happen, they would believe and know that their being saved from the destruction of Jerusalem was a gift from God. His idea clearly worked. Not one Christian was killed in the destruction of Jerusalem. They had all fled to the mountains.

When they had gathered together they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He answered them, It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has established by his own authority. (Acts 1:6-7)

Concerning times and seasons, brothers, you have no need for anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief at night. (1 Thessalonians 5:2)

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, (2 Peter 3:10)

***Remember then what you received and heard; keep that, and repent. If you will not awake, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come ***upon you. (Revelation 16:3)

The New Testament is thick with the idea of vigilance. Standing watch for the coming of the Lord in the middle of the night is one of the reasons why monks get up at 3:30 and pray - they are standing vigil and will be ready for Jesus when he comes unexpectedly.

So the short answer is, I think, that Jesus simply didn’t ask the Father for the exact time and date.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Hi, Tim!

…one observation… this “when” is referring to the end of times not the destruction of the Temple:
36 But as for that day and hour, nobody knows it, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, no one but the Father alone. 37 'As it was in Noah’s day, so will it be when the Son of man comes. 38 For in those days before the Flood people were eating, drinking, taking wives, taking husbands, right up to the day Noah went into the ark,
39 and they suspected nothing till the Flood came and swept them all away. This is what it will be like when the Son of man comes. (St. Matthew 24:36-39)
Click to expand...
…this reflects back to vv 25-31; many prophecies employ a duality: here we can find both the destruction of the Temple (vv 15 through 21–compare Jesus’ Revelation to the Samaritan woman: St. John 4:20-26) and the end of times, the Parousia, (vv 3-51); interestingly enough, though, we find verse 34:
34 In truth I tell you, before this generation has passed away, all these things will have taken place.
Click to expand...
…if we simply run with the visual content of the text… one could easily claim that it all has happened (there are those who claim that the Parousia did take place)… but if we recall another one of Jesus statements:
22 And if that time had not been shortened, no human being would have survived; but shortened that time shall be, for the sake of those who are chosen.
Click to expand...
Jesus speaks not of a limited time when these things will happen (x # of yrs); rather, it is a limitation of periods where the Church will be persecuted, allowed to flourish, and persecuted again and again (check historical evidence of this)…

Maran atha!

Angel
 
DeProfundis1 said:
But in John 16:29-30, Christ had not died yet and the disciples were saying he knows everything. So are the disciples account not accurate? But then we have to question everything else if so.

Also, if Jesus was limited in this way, what makes him God? Knowledge? Certaintly not miracles, the prophets have been given them. But we see he lacks some knowledge.

Numbers 23:19
“God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.”

So is God changing his mind, so now he does not know everything?

It just doesn’t make sense because,

Isaiah 46:9-10
“I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.”

Job 37:16
“Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.”

Isaiah 40:25
“To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.
Click to expand...
As I told you, Christ, as God, knows everything.
What makes him God is that He is God.
Do not use Old testament quotes…
 
jcrichton said:
Hi, Tim!

…one observation… this “when” is referring to the end of times not the destruction of the Temple:

I disagree. I believe everything Jesus spoke about happened. But I’ll leave it there. I hope we both get to find out some day.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
 
TimothyH said:
I disagree. I believe everything Jesus spoke about happened. But I’ll leave it there. I hope we both get to find out some day.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
…you are free to have your own thoughts on any matter, including Scriptures!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
DeProfundis1 said:
I just can’t reconcile these passages. Jesus claims that something is unknown to him, yet he is God right? But then the disciples say that they belieive he knows everything. God in the OT knows all, so should Jesus not share this?
Click to expand...
I think that they both know all. They are one just like the bible states along with the Holy Spirit. Other than that, lets just keep trusting in our God and make sure our behavior is pure or saintly. Peace and good for all.🙂
 
…I’ve just clicked on the wrong link… I hope this reestablishes my subscription… 🤷
 
I believe Jesus to be Omnipresent–he know’s all. He must know all if he is to be your judge.
 
fred_conty said:
Jesus is divine person, but with two natures, divine and human.

Jesus as a divine person therefore knew everything that ever was, is, or will be.

Jesus in his human nature could increase in knowledge experimentally as a human.
He could feel different objects, and experience seeing color thru human eyes,
tast different flavors of food, and so on.

As divine, Jesus knew all of this already, but not experimentally in a human way.

But when He said that no one knows the hour, not even himself, IMO, he was speaking in a loose sense, meaning that he wasn’t ready to devulge that knowledge. It was polite way of saying that it isn’t any of your concern.

Just a few thoughts.
Click to expand...
👍
 
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