Does "LGBT" reflect a kind of social pecking order within "the gay community"?

[janeway529]

If not, why is it not in alphabetical order? Lesbians appear to have the top billing which goes with how “gay rights” has always been a part of militant feminism.

Actually, there is a reason for the order of the acronym. The full acronym should be LGBTQIA.

L = Lesbian

G = Gay

B = Bisexual

T = Transgender (Person born as either male or female but grows up feeling emotionally and psychologically of the opposite sex. Person may decide to take estrogen or testosterone treatments and possible surgery to go Male to Female or Female to Male.)

Q = Questioning

I = Intersexed (Person born with both male and female genitalia, and doctor chooses which one to remove. Later in life, the individual feels the doctor chose wrongly.)

A = Ally (Straight Person, usually a friend or family member)

The “L” comes before the “G” because of the feminist idea that men are not greater than women, even in the “gay world.” Those who are Bisexual usually are the ones discriminated against in their community (“Can’t you make up your mind?”). Those who are Transgendered are actually higher up in the pecking order than Bisexuals, and the bottom rung are the Intersexed and Questioning.

 

[Rin]

I think that some put more faith in their far right politics than the teachings of the church.

I’ve observed this too, and I have to admit it annoys me. It is something I associate with Protestantism, not Catholicism. As someone placed firmly in the center of politics (though I’d probably be considered a “value conservative” by liberals due to my view on abortion, but then again far-right conservatives would probably consider me liberal for not getting what baking a cake has to do with religious freedom), I’m equally annoyed by the far left and the far right. They’re both fallacious, and dangerous to the Faith as well as society.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I respect that you are celibate. If the homosexual political movement promoted celibacy I would see your point. But, “gay rights” has generally come to mean the right to indulge in and seek public approval for homosexual behavior. So, when I’m trying to make a point about the political alliance between lesbians and “gay” men, I’m speaking in general political terms without reference to the anecdotal celibate homosexuals.

Having said that, friends usually have a lot in common. Whether homosexual or heterosexual, men and women generally have little in common. But when a hetero man and woman don’t have much in common they have sexual attraction to each other in common, and this attraction is what draws them together. If they didn’t have this in common the human race would have died out almost as soon as it first began, and none of us would be here discussing this because none of us would have ever been born. But, homosexual men and women have little in common and are sexually repulsed by each other. So, this makes it a counterintuitive alliance.

I’ve received abuse over perceived sexual orientation. I am not LGB, but even if I was people would have no right to abuse me as they have. My lack of dating the opposite sex (I’ve never dated anyone or even had a first kiss) makes me considered a suspected “homo”.

Even if women weren’t attracted to men many would still be with men to prevent other men from hurting them. A rather nice racket men have going for them.

Yes, me too. Why the need for scare quotes? These people exist in reality so why surround them with scare quotes? Personally I doubt the existence of one gay community. They are individuals and as divided as anyone else.

I think that some put more faith in their far right politics than the teachings of the church. The CCC states that these individauls are to be treated with dignity and respect, yet I see little of either from the right, just derision.

It is my hypothesis ( and I could be way off on this) that the right always needs a “other, an enemy” to keep people stirred up and paranoid about. First it was Jews, then Communists and the no longer extant Soviet Union, then African Americans and that is still present in the right with their “birtherism”, and now homosexuals. Who will be next?

“Others” will be next, they always are, if there are no “others” they will be created to be such.

No, NO we are NOT sexually repulsed by each other. We just aren’t physically attracted in the same way. This is what I’m trying to get across to you LVU. I think James Roday is highly attractive, for example, but I don’t avoid Psych in the way that I literally ignore my TV when VS commercials come on. I can recognize he’s an attractive guy, but I have no visceral reaction of being turned on. Attraction to the same sex is not the same thing as repulsion to the opposite sex.

Indeed.

I’ve observed this too, and I have to admit it annoys me. It is something I associate with Protestantism, not Catholicism. As someone placed firmly in the center of politics (though I’d probably be considered a “value conservative” by liberals due to my view on abortion, but then again far-right conservatives would probably consider me liberal for not getting what baking a cake has to do with religious freedom), I’m equally annoyed by the far left and the far right. They’re both fallacious, and dangerous to the Faith as well as society.

I have definitely seen it.

 

[livingwordunity]

The “L” comes before the “G” because of the feminist idea that men are not greater than women, even in the “gay world.”

That supports the OP theory, that the first letter represents the position of superiority over the rest. I wonder if it makes the radical feminists angry when they see it occasionally spelled “GLBT” (most likely, the arrangement of a man).

 

[SMGS127]

The “L” comes before the “G” because of the feminist idea that men are not greater than women, even in the “gay world.” Those who are Bisexual usually are the ones discriminated against in their community (“Can’t you make up your mind?”). Those who are Transgendered are actually higher up in the pecking order than Bisexuals, and the bottom rung are the Intersexed and Questioning.

This entire post is wrong. Like, the entirety of it.

First of all, if there were a pecking order, it would go Gay/Lesbian/Intersexed/Asexual > Bisexual > Queer >> Questioning >>>> Transgender, which is almost entirely different than what you claim.

Secondly, how many gay people have you heard say “can’t you make up your mind?” That is an extraordinarily straight biphobic response to bisexuality. A gay person who is biphobic would likely use the “oh they’re still in their gateway phase” expression or the “oh they want to pretend like they like the opposite sex too to fit in ” expression.

Third of all, AGAIN, GLBT and LGBT are used interchangably. In fact, GLAAD is “Gays, Lesbians, and Allies Against Defamation.” How many feminist groups do you see railing against that? Zero.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I’ve heard that L is first because gay can be used for both men and women and having L come second makes the inclusion of lesbians look like an afterthought. I’m royally paraphrasing but that’s how I understood it.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

This entire post is wrong. Like, the entirety of it.

First of all, if there were a pecking order, it would go Gay/Lesbian/Intersexed/Asexual > Bisexual > Queer >> Questioning >>>> Transgender, which is almost entirely different than what you claim.

Secondly, how many gay people have you heard say “can’t you make up your mind?” That is an extraordinarily straight biphobic response to bisexuality. A gay person who is biphobic would likely use the “oh they’re still in their gateway phase” expression or the “oh they want to pretend like they like the opposite sex too to fit in ” expression.

Third of all, AGAIN, GLBT and LGBT are used interchangably. In fact, GLAAD is “Gays, Lesbians, and Allies Against Defamation.” How many feminist groups do you see railing against that? Zero.

I think you overestimate the place of Transgender people in the pecking order.

 

[livingwordunity]

Has anyone ever seen it as BGLT?

 

[livingwordunity]

Third of all, AGAIN, GLBT and LGBT are used interchangably. In fact, GLAAD is “Gays, Lesbians, and Allies Against Defamation.” How many feminist groups do you see railing against that? Zero.

“GLAAD” cuts off the BT. I guess it’s easy for the “L” and “G” to forget about the “B” and “T” backseat passengers.

 

[SMGS127]

“GLAAD” cuts off the BT. I guess it’s easy for the “L” and “G” to forget about the “B” and “T” backseat passengers.

Or they didn’t want their name to be GLAB TAD because GLAAD sounds nicer in conversation and is easier to remember?

Seriously, LVU, I used to think you were doing this out of honest curiousity (even though the questions are ridiculous), but now it sounds like you’re actively trying to ridicule the community. Please check yourself.

 

[meltzerboy]

Has anyone ever seen it as BGLT?

No, because that would be too close to a BLT! (A little humor, folks.)

 

[Kamaduck]

This entire post is wrong. Like, the entirety of it.

First of all, if there were a pecking order, it would go Gay/Lesbian/Intersexed/Asexual > Bisexual > Queer >> Questioning >>>> Transgender, which is almost entirely different than what you claim.

Secondly, how many gay people have you heard say “can’t you make up your mind?” That is an extraordinarily straight biphobic response to bisexuality. A gay person who is biphobic would likely use the “oh they’re still in their gateway phase” expression or the “oh they want to pretend like they like the opposite sex too to fit in ” expression.

Third of all, AGAIN, GLBT and LGBT are used interchangably. In fact, GLAAD is “Gays, Lesbians, and Allies Against Defamation.” How many feminist groups do you see railing against that? Zero.

Is intersex that high up? I almost never see people talking about intersex conditions in online LGBT spaces, no matter which acronym they use. But on the other hand I guess I haven’t seen them get any flak unless they’re also percieved as trans. And then asexuals are the same thing, they don’t have many resources but also don’t seem to get any more hate than gay or lesbian people. Plus they seem to have their own communities, so I guess it’s OK. Most people just aren’t aware of them (possibly in part because their letter keeps being stolen by “ally”).

Has anyone ever seen it as BGLT?

I haven’t, but I’ve never actually been a part of the community. I just hear about it.

 

[livingwordunity]

Or they didn’t want their name to be GLAB TAD because GLAAD sounds nicer in conversation and is easier to remember?

Seriously, LVU, I used to think you were doing this out of honest curiousity (even though the questions are ridiculous), but now it sounds like you’re actively trying to ridicule the community. Please check yourself.

I am not criticizing individual homosexuals. I’m only criticizing the political lobby. Just as not every black person agrees with the direction that the NAACP is going, I’m working with the assumption that not every homosexual agrees with the direction that the “gay” lobby is going in.

 

[Kamaduck]

I am not criticizing individual homosexuals. I’m only criticizing the political lobby. Just as not every black person agrees with the direction that the NAACP is going, I’m working with the assumption that not every homosexual agrees with the direction that the “gay” lobby is going in.

So your original question is intended as a criticism.

I have to ask, why? Why do you think that putting L before G is any more sexist than putting G before L? Even if it were a conscious choice at one time, it’d be mostly a symbolic one. Lesbians are not given preference over gay men within the movement (although there probably are attempts to correct for societal sexism).

 

[livingwordunity]

So your original question is intended as a criticism.

I have to ask, why? Why do you think that putting L before G is any more sexist than putting G before L? Even if it were a conscious choice at one time, it’d be mostly a symbolic one. Lesbians are not given preference over gay men within the movement (although there probably are attempts to correct for societal sexism).

I am criticizing the hypocrisy of the lobby.

 

[Usagi]

I am criticizing the hypocrisy of the lobby.

What hypocrisy?

So far, you are making up controversies and divisions that don’t actually seem to exist within the community itself. At least learn about actual issues and focus on those.

Usagi

 

[livingwordunity]

What hypocrisy?

So far, you are making up controversies and divisions that don’t actually seem to exist within the community itself. At least learn about actual issues and focus on those.

Just to be sure where you are coming from, are you saying that you believe that there is no hypocrisy at all in the “gay” lobby?

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Just to be sure where you are coming from, are you saying that you believe that there is no hypocrisy at all in the “gay” lobby?

There is hypocrisy everywhere.

 

[Usagi]

Just to be sure where you are coming from, are you saying that you believe that there is no hypocrisy at all in the “gay” lobby?

I’m saying only that I have no idea what you are talking about, and that you seem to be theorizing from ignorance.

Usagi

 

[livingwordunity]

I’m saying only that I have no idea what you are talking about, and that you seem to be theorizing from ignorance.

Judging from this thread, there is at least a trace of truth to the OP theory. The BGLT are not without some degree of internal conflict. And that’s all it takes to justify asking the question.