Does Matthew 25 contradict Catholicism?

[sidbrown]

In reading Matthew 25:31 - 46, we see that those who have given drink to the thirsty, food to the hungry, visited prisoners, will possess the kingdom of heaven. But I don’t see where there is any mention that you have to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Is this a contradiction to Catholic teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church?

 

[diggerdomer]

In reading Matthew 25:31 - 46, we see that those who have given drink to the thirsty, food to the hungry, visited prisoners, will possess the kingdom of heaven. But I don’t see where there is any mention that you have to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Is this a contradiction to Catholic teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Nope

 

[sidbrown]

Nope

This does not seem to be a convincing argument against the proposition that one can be saved if one performs as indicated in Mathew 25, which makes no mention of the necessity of belonging to any one particular Church for salvation.

 

[diggerdomer]

This does not seem to be a convincing argument against the proposition that one can be saved if one performs as indicated in Mathew 25, which makes no mention of the necessity of belonging to any one particular Church for salvation.

That wasn’t an argument, it was an answer. If you want an argument see CCC 846 ff. hope this helps.

 

[mumsaab]

Good answer diggerdomer straight to the point.

 

[kimmielittle]

In reading Matthew 25:31 - 46, we see that those who have given drink to the thirsty, food to the hungry, visited prisoners, will possess the kingdom of heaven. But I don’t see where there is any mention that you have to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Is this a contradiction to Catholic teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Hiyas

IMHO…No, The Bible is written after the Church. Written ** by Church Members**. If it contradicted the Catholic Church…why would it be allowed to stand?

To me,it’s fascinating to see people trying to use the Bible …Written by early Catholics…to attempt to contradict The Church.

I hope this helps.

 

[JRKH]

In reading Matthew 25:31 - 46, we see that those who have given drink to the thirsty, food to the hungry, visited prisoners, will possess the kingdom of heaven. But I don’t see where there is any mention that you have to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Is this a contradiction to Catholic teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church?

No this does not contradict the “Catholic Church”.
Jesus founded a single community or Church upon Peter.
In Greek this single community would have been called, forgive my spelling, “kattolica ecclasia”, which translates to universal community, or universal group.
This “universal community” is the “Catholic Church”.

Also I would point out that not every requirement for attaining eternal life is spelled out in this passage. For instance nothing is mentioned about faith in Jesus or baptism. So this is obviously not a comprehensive listing of requirements for attaining the kingdom.

Peace
James

 

[Thankful10]

Hiyas

IMHO…No, The Bible is written after the Church. Written ** by Church Members**. If it contradicted the Catholic Church…why would it be allowed to stand?

To me,it’s fascinating to see people trying to use the Bible …Written by early Catholics…to attempt to contradict The Church.

I hope this helps.

You are assuming that early Catholics wrote the Bible. There are many who don’t believe the Catholic Church is the true Church of God. There are many who believe that the Catholic Church was the first Protestant Church.
I would say the true Church of God would live and teach the whole written Word of God. That is the measure, which will be used to judge us on the last day. One will not be judged by what Church one belonged to.
(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

 

[PadraigPearce]

You are assuming that early Catholics wrote the Bible. There are many who don’t believe the Catholic Church is the true Church of God. There are many who believe that the Catholic Church was the first Protestant Church.
I would say the true Church of God would live and teach the whole written Word of God. That is the measure, which will be used to judge us on the last day. One will not be judged by what Church one belonged to.
(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

So where did the canon of scripture come from then? Who compiled it?

 

[Spencerian]

You are assuming that early Catholics wrote the Bible. There are many who don’t believe the Catholic Church is the true Church of God. There are many who believe that the Catholic Church was the first Protestant Church.
I would say the true Church of God would live and teach the whole written Word of God. That is the measure, which will be used to judge us on the last day. One will not be judged by what Church one belonged to.
(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Hi, Thankful.

That the Catholic Church was the original Christian faith (with no “denominations” until the Orthodox Schism around 1066) is grounded not only Biblically (note Matthew 16:17-19 and, as the Apostles filled the empty office of Judas: Acts 1:16-26) but in history. This is why we as Catholics are not worried about so-called contradictions in the Bible, for our founding members wrote what was to become the New Testament and were former members of the Old Testament. The early writings of the Church Fathers (from St. Paul and beyond) confirm Catholic practices, which have changed very little since their inception.

Respectfully speaking, those who don’t believe that the Church isn’t the root of Christianity are ignorant of history, which is disappointing, for that is a denial of truth. The term “Protestant” means that someone was protesting against something. How could the Catholic Church protest against itself? It can do so only if a faction of it split off, which is what Martin Luther did, unwisely.

No Christian practice outside of the Catholic and Orthodox faiths are older than 600 years or so, starting at the Protestant Reformation. One man (and a Catholic priest at that), decided, on his own authority (and creating a human tradition of faith) that 1500 years of Christian teaching should be revised. Again, this is human history, but that event redefined Christianity for many into thousands of groups today, with very few of them consistent in their teachings as the Catholic Church is today.

There *is *salvation outside of the Catholic Church. I’m sure of it. There are too many good people from all walks of life that do the Lord’s will and aren’t aware of it from a standpoint of faith. I, however, would not want to throw my bets in achieving salvation that way, now that I follow the central Way.

 

[twinc]

In reading Matthew 25:31 - 46, we see that those who have given drink to the thirsty, food to the hungry, visited prisoners, will possess the kingdom of heaven. But I don’t see where there is any mention that you have to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Is this a contradiction to Catholic teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church?

here is another good example of literal being accepted by those who would choose to reject the literal elsewhere,wheras the rule is of course that the literal or obvious must always and everywhere be accepted first and foremost,but not just the literal but other senses may also be accepted.Here God does not hunger or thirst etc for food or liquid but for love and the second is as the first and by this shall men know you are my disciples in that you love one another - twinc

 

[newyorkcatholic]

This is a logic problem. It’s not the passage says, “feed the hungry, and you will go to Heaven, if you are not catholic, and even if you murder people for money to buy the food for the hungry.”

Take Scripture in context, and along with all of Scripture.

If we take it all together, along with tradition, we realize that there is no salvation outside the Church. Of course we understand that a person outside the visible communion of the Catholic Church may be saved, but we don’t know exactly how, and we do know it is still through the Church … even if that person doesn’t know it yet.

Gaia, Vishnu, secular humanism … will not save their followers. They cannot. If they are saved, it is because of Jesus, through His instrument of salvation … the Catholic Church.

 

[Thankful10]

Hi, Thankful.

That the Catholic Church was the original Christian faith (with no “denominations” until the Orthodox Schism around 1066) is grounded not only Biblically (note Matthew 16:17-19 and, as the Apostles filled the empty office of Judas: Acts 1:16-26) but in history. This is why we as Catholics are not worried about so-called contradictions in the Bible, for our founding members wrote what was to become the New Testament and were former members of the Old Testament. The early writings of the Church Fathers (from St. Paul and beyond) confirm Catholic practices, which have changed very little since their inception.

Respectfully speaking, those who don’t believe that the Church isn’t the root of Christianity are ignorant of history, which is disappointing, for that is a denial of truth. The term “Protestant” means that someone was protesting against something. How could the Catholic Church protest against itself? It can do so only if a faction of it split off, which is what Martin Luther did, unwisely.

No Christian practice outside of the Catholic and Orthodox faiths are older than 600 years or so, starting at the Protestant Reformation. One man (and a Catholic priest at that), decided, on his own authority (and creating a human tradition of faith) that 1500 years of Christian teaching should be revised. Again, this is human history, but that event redefined Christianity for many into thousands of groups today, with very few of them consistent in their teachings as the Catholic Church is today.

There *is *salvation outside of the Catholic Church. I’m sure of it. There are too many good people from all walks of life that do the Lord’s will and aren’t aware of it from a standpoint of faith. I, however, would not want to throw my bets in achieving salvation that way, now that I follow the central Way.

Personally it does not matter to me who says they are members of the true Church of God. The Greek Orthodox Church will tell people that the Roman Catholic Church broke off from the Greek Orthodox Church. Making the Roman Catholics the first Church to separate from the original Church.
I believe a person would be well advised to look to him or herself and ask him or herself if their church is bringing them to a spiritual walk with God. A spiritual walk that keeps one free from sin, and Satan’s grasp.
People should read the written Word of God, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide them to the true understanding of God’s Word. A mature Christian will only follow God’s voice.

(John 10:1-5)“I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”
Notice that Jesus said his people would hear his voice, and call him or her by name. Why would anyone listen to man’s understanding of scripture when they have Jesus/Holy Spirit living in them, to teach and guide.

 

[ahollars]

So where did the canon of scripture come from then? Who compiled it?

:tsktsk: Shhhh… that’s an unfair, irrelevant, and divisive question only Catholics ask that needs to be ignored, and Catholics are supposed to forget about it in the name of “tolerance”.

We’re not worthy! :bowdown: We’re not worthy!

 

[erikd]

There *is *salvation outside of the Catholic Church. I’m sure of it. There are too many good people from all walks of life that do the Lord’s will and aren’t aware of it from a standpoint of faith. I, however, would not want to throw my bets in achieving salvation that way, now that I follow the central Way.

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 847

 

[Spencerian]

Personally it does not matter to me who says they are members of the true Church of God. The Greek Orthodox Church will tell people that the Roman Catholic Church broke off from the Greek Orthodox Church. Making the Roman Catholics the first Church to separate from the original Church.
I believe a person would be well advised to look to him or herself and ask him or herself if their church is bringing them to a spiritual walk with God. A spiritual walk that keeps one free from sin, and Satan’s grasp.
People should read the written Word of God, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide them to the true understanding of God’s Word. A mature Christian will only follow God’s voice.

(John 10:1-5)“I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”
Notice that Jesus said his people would hear his voice, and call him or her by name. Why would anyone listen to man’s understanding of scripture when they have Jesus/Holy Spirit living in them, to teach and guide.

We all hear many voices. On the radio. Television. Books. Each other. Even within our own minds. Yet are we, as individuals, fully capable of discerning which voice is speaking truth and which isn’t?

There are many lost souls from Jonestown that would likely disagree with your definition of following a voice.

While nothing is guaranteed, the benefit of Catholicism is its consistency in its message, the Sacred Scripture combined with the Sacred Traditions and a teaching authority recognized by and practiced by St. Paul, the Apostles and their disciples and followers long, long before the New Testament become a compiled book.

It’s not the adherence to the written Word that I argue with you, but its interpretation. I do not try to interpret for myself the complete Word per se. There is a very big picture in many stories in the Bible and trying to DIY the Word will lead me to error and the wrong path. The Church leaders have led for countless people for thousands of years and have authority to do this since the Lord ascended. It’s a good thing, too, for otherwise there would *be *no Bible to guide you or I.

That’s not to say that Catholics are automatons to the Magistarium. We are many parts, and some of those parts speak in error. But we have the teaching authority to always answer definitively on how to apply or interpret the Word. Where in the Bible does it say that man as individuals can assume on their personal authority that they will interpret the Bible properly?

It doesn’t. And that’s why the folks of Jonestown were sadly led to a wrong path. And why the Gates of Hell remain unsuccessful in destroying the Bride of Christ, the Catholic Church–and (by extension, thankfully) most denominations that hold fast to at least some of the truths of the early Church.

 

[Jotobo]

Hi, Thankful.

That the Catholic Church was the original Christian faith (with no “denominations” until the Orthodox Schism around 1066) is grounded not only Biblically (note Matthew 16:17-19 and, as the Apostles filled the empty office of Judas: Acts 1:16-26) but in history. This is why we as Catholics are not worried about so-called contradictions in the Bible, for our founding members wrote what was to become the New Testament and were former members of the Old Testament. The early writings of the Church Fathers (from St. Paul and beyond) confirm Catholic practices, which have changed very little since their inception.

Respectfully speaking, those who don’t believe that the Church isn’t the root of Christianity are ignorant of history, which is disappointing, for that is a denial of truth. The term “Protestant” means that someone was protesting against something. How could the Catholic Church protest against itself? It can do so only if a faction of it split off, which is what Martin Luther did, unwisely.

No Christian practice outside of the Catholic and Orthodox faiths are older than 600 years or so, starting at the Protestant Reformation. One man (and a Catholic priest at that), decided, on his own authority (and creating a human tradition of faith) that 1500 years of Christian teaching should be revised. Again, this is human history, but that event redefined Christianity for many into thousands of groups today, with very few of them consistent in their teachings as the Catholic Church is today.

There *is *salvation outside of the Catholic Church. I’m sure of it. There are too many good people from all walks of life that do the Lord’s will and aren’t aware of it from a standpoint of faith. I, however, would not want to throw my bets in achieving salvation that way, now that I follow the central Way.

My two cents is that this is a phenomenal answer.

 

[Thankful10]

We all hear many voices. On the radio. Television. Books. Each other. Even within our own minds. Yet are we, as individuals, fully capable of discerning which voice is speaking truth and which isn’t?

There are many lost souls from Jonestown that would likely disagree with your definition of following a voice.

While nothing is guaranteed, the benefit of Catholicism is its consistency in its message, the Sacred Scripture combined with the Sacred Traditions and a teaching authority recognized by and practiced by St. Paul, the Apostles and their disciples and followers long, long before the New Testament become a compiled book.

It’s not the adherence to the written Word that I argue with you, but its interpretation. I do not try to interpret for myself the complete Word per se. There is a very big picture in many stories in the Bible and trying to DIY the Word will lead me to error and the wrong path. The Church leaders have led for countless people for thousands of years and have authority to do this since the Lord ascended. It’s a good thing, too, for otherwise there would *be *no Bible to guide you or I.

That’s not to say that Catholics are automatons to the Magistarium. We are many parts, and some of those parts speak in error. But we have the teaching authority to always answer definitively on how to apply or interpret the Word. Where in the Bible does it say that man as individuals can assume on their personal authority that they will interpret the Bible properly?

It doesn’t. And that’s why the folks of Jonestown were sadly led to a wrong path. And why the Gates of Hell remain unsuccessful in destroying the Bride of Christ, the Catholic Church–and (by extension, thankfully) most denominations that hold fast to at least some of the truths of the early Church.

You stated “And that’s why the folks of Jonestown were sadly led to a wrong path.”
I say that is just what is happening to all the people that are allowing man to tell him or her what is to be understood in the written Word of God. You should see that if prophets were allowed to speak, and would be listened to, much of the false teaching would never have happened.
I have listened to your explanation of why an individual can’t be trusted to interpret the Word of God for many years. You say the Church: “have the teaching authority to always answer definitively on how to apply or interpret the Word.” Now you can’t see that is the same line that Jones used to lure his followers down the path to destruction.
Jesus told us that he would call his people by name, and they would follow him, and no other. Jesus also gave us his Holy Spirit to teach and guide us. But people in authority of the churches can’t trust that God will make sure his people will follow him.
Another error in your thinking is when Jesus/Holy Spirit instructs a person using the written Word; it is not a personal interpretation.
Jesus told us that; if we would live his Word he would show himself to us.
How many people do you know that Jesus has shown himself to, and called him or her by name? It should be every Christian.
People who witness that Jesus speaks to them are ridiculed. This forum frowns on anyone sharing his or her personal experiences with God.
How many people do you know that are spiritual; people who live sinless lives?

 

[Spencerian]

You stated “And that’s why the folks of Jonestown were sadly led to a wrong path.”
I say that is just what is happening to all the people that are allowing man to tell him or her what is to be understood in the written Word of God. You should see that if prophets were allowed to speak, and would be listened to, much of the false teaching would never have happened.
I have listened to your explanation of why an individual can’t be trusted to interpret the Word of God for many years. You say the Church: “have the teaching authority to always answer definitively on how to apply or interpret the Word.” Now you can’t see that is the same line that Jones used to lure his followers down the path to destruction.
Jesus told us that he would call his people by name, and they would follow him, and no other. Jesus also gave us his Holy Spirit to teach and guide us. But people in authority of the churches can’t trust that God will make sure his people will follow him.
Another error in your thinking is when Jesus/Holy Spirit instructs a person using the written Word; it is not a personal interpretation.
Jesus told us that; if we would live his Word he would show himself to us.
How many people do you know that Jesus has shown himself to, and called him or her by name? It should be every Christian.
People who witness that Jesus speaks to them are ridiculed. This forum frowns on anyone sharing his or her personal experiences with God.
How many people do you know that are spiritual; people who live sinless lives?

Hm. I think you are discussing a private path of revelation from Christ. I’m not qualified enough to discuss private revelation except to note that Christ’s mission of salvation is complete that further revelation would be anti-climatic (although some private revelations have been important points in Catholic history, such as Fatima and Our Lady of Guadalupe).

Maybe I can note something of history and Scripture that helps. After Peter declared to Christ that He was the Son of God, Christ said to him, “And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:13-19) These are the central verses in Scripture (also supported by Acts 1:15-26, and others) that show that Peter was tasked to be the first leader of the Church–the first pope (although it wasn’t called that back then).

A future Pope would find the seat of his office later surrounded by war that threatened not only himself, but virtually everything and everyone in the Church. But Christ said that the gates of the netherworld (hell) would not prevail against it, and so it didn’t during World War II, while surrounded by fascist Italy and ally to Nazi Germany.

If that wasn’t a time where the Church should have fallen (the Nazis were no friend to the Catholics), I don’t know what is.

But you still appear to be “stuck” on the exclusivity of Sacred Scripture, which did not guide the early Church. The writings that you and I treasure in the New Testament did not exist in a collected form until it started to be written down, slowly, around 45 A.D, and not formalized until around the Council of Carthage in 397, if I researched correctly. Guided by the Holy Spirit, the Church took Sacred Tradition and teachings and made it into written form. Christ said that He would guide his Apostles (Pentacost) and He has done so.

If that is not true, be wary of what you read, for the Bible was penned by man. By questioning the ability of the Holy Spirit to guide the early fathers in the compilation of the New Testament, you undo the validity of Scripture. Realistically, the Bible did not drop down from the heavens; someone had to write down what the the Father and Word and the Spirit said to us. The Catholic Church as an entity to itself is inerrant, since the Holy Spirit guides it. But all the bishops and popes that have been its stewards were sinners. Yet the Church never lets the sins of some of the lesser leaders to change the Church’s path or mission.

It’s important to discern for yourself if the early Catholic Church fathers that used Sacred Tradition and the Holy Spirit to create the books and writings that formed the New Testament were as guided in the Spirit that indeed guides you.

No one here frowns on your experiences with God; please continue with what you experience. But please understand that we may charitably disagree on some particulars as we exchange thoughts on Scripture.

 

[sidbrown]

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 847

So there is salvation outside of the Catholic Church and the previous teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church was not correct?