Does Matthew 25 contradict Catholicism?

[zach_dunn]

In reading Matthew 25:31 - 46, we see that those who have given drink to the thirsty, food to the hungry, visited prisoners, will possess the kingdom of heaven. But I don’t see where there is any mention that you have to belong to the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Is this a contradiction to Catholic teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Catechism to the rescue!!!

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

this is true today, but it was not true during the time of the Spainsh Inquisition or the Protestant Reformation.

I sure hope you don’t think that only Protestants were killed in those time periods . . .

 

[cajunboy1]

No, this does not contradict Catholicism. One thing you should no is that there is no salvation outside of the Church Period. The Cathoic Church says that our protestant bretheren are also part of the Church, just missing the fullness thats all. So, outside of the Church there is no salvation. Jesus stated the begining of the Church when he told St. Peter that he would be the rock upon which he would build his Church. So, it was and is today. If you are outside of God’s Church then you don’t beleive or know who he is.

Cajunboy1

 

[sidbrown]

No, this does not contradict Catholicism. One thing you should no is that there is no salvation outside of the Church Period. The Cathoic Church says that our protestant bretheren are also part of the Church, just missing the fullness thats all. So, outside of the Church there is no salvation. Jesus stated the begining of the Church when he told St. Peter that he would be the rock upon which he would build his Church. So, it was and is today. If you are outside of God’s Church then you don’t beleive or know who he is.

Cajunboy1

Are Jews, Hindus and Muslims also part of the Catholic Church?

 

[zach_dunn]

Are Jews, Hindus and Muslims also part of the Catholic Church?

No.

1 Corinthians 12:13
“13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink.”

Romans 12:5
“**5 **So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.”

Colossians 1:24
“24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church.”

 

[sidbrown]

No.

1 Corinthians 12:13
“13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink.”

Romans 12:5
“**5 **So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.”

Colossians 1:24
“24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church.”

They are not .Well, then can they be saved if they perform the good works as listed in Matthew 25?

 

[zach_dunn]

They are not .Well, then can they be saved if they perform the good works as listed in Matthew 25?

Here I refer you to paragraph 847 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was provided above:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

So I, personally, would say yes to that question.

 

[sidbrown]

Here I refer you to paragraph 847 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was provided above:

So I, personally, would say yes to that question.

So is it clear that Hindus, Msulims and Jews are inside or outside or a part of the Catholic Church today? It seems like Catholics are giving different answers to this question and there is no right or wrong answer?

 

[zach_dunn]

So is it clear that Hindus, Msulims and Jews are inside or outside or a part of the Catholic Church today? It seems like Catholics are giving different answers to this question and there is no right or wrong answer?

There is a right answer and it is crystal clear, they are not part of the Catholic Church. To be part of the Church, you need to be baptized in the trinitarian formula.

 

[sidbrown]

There is a right answer and it is crystal clear, they are not part of the Catholic Church. To be part of the Church, you need to be baptized in the trinitarian formula.

So they are outside of the Catholic Church. Will they then be saved if they perform the good works as listed in Matthew 25, even if they continue to remain outside of the Catholic Church and they do not convert and they are not baptised all of their own free will and with sufficient reflection.

 

[zach_dunn]

So they are outside of the Catholic Church. Will they then be saved if they perform the good works as listed in Matthew 25, even if they continue to remain outside of the Catholic Church and they do not convert and they are not baptised all of their own free will and with sufficient reflection.

Now it depends. Have they been preached the gospel and learned of Christ and His Church? Do they know that the Catholic faith is the true faith?

 

[sidbrown]

Now it depends. Have they been preached the gospel and learned of Christ and His Church? Do they know that the Catholic faith is the true faith?

They have studied the Catholic Church and they are attracted to it, and they would convert, but they don’t want to offend their families and so they remain Hindus, Jews or Muslims, so that they can worship with ther rest of their family who don’t want to have anything to do with Catholicism. Still, they perform all of the good works as listed in Matthew 25.

 

[zach_dunn]

They have studied the Catholic Church and they are attracted to it, and they would convert, but they don’t want to offend their families and so they remain Hindus, Jews or Muslims, so that they can worship with ther rest of their family who don’t want to have anything to do with Catholicism. Still, they perform all of the good works as listed in Matthew 25.

Well, then, there is nothing anyone can do for them except God. Once they realized that the Catholic faith is the true faith but do not convert, they cannot be saved.

 

[sidbrown]

Well, then, there is nothing anyone can do for them except God. Once they realized that the Catholic faith is the true faith but do not convert, they cannot be saved.

This is then another instance of what I see as a possible contradiction between what is written in Matthew 25 and what is taught by Catholicism, at least as you have said so. In Matthew 25, we see that Our Divine Lord says that those who practice the good works there will be saved:
34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. …
…
But you have added an extra condition which Our Divine Lord did not give. And you say that if this extra conditon is not fulfilled, then they will not be saved. But Our Divine Lord did not say anything like this in Matthew 25. He was completely silent on the issue that you have mentioned is necessary for salvation.

 

[zach_dunn]

This is then another instance of what I see as a possible contradiction between what is written in Matthew 25 and what is taught by Catholicism, at least as you have said so. In Matthew 25, we see that Our Divine Lord says that those who practice the good works there will be saved:

But you have added an extra condition which Our Divine Lord did not give. And you say that if this extra conditon is not fulfilled, then they will not be saved. But Our Divine Lord did not say anything like this in Matthew 25. He was completely silent on the issue that you have mentioned is necessary for salvation.

You fail to understand that our Lord did not give a full account of what is necessary to be saved in Mt 25. You are essentially purporting works-salvation which is a heresy known as Pelagianism (there is more to Pelagianism than this, but this is the gist of it). No where in the verses you provided did Jesus say that faith was required for salvation, or grace. These to things are expounded as absolutely needed in many places in Scripture [Rom 3:28; Eph 2:8; Heb 11:6]. Yet another thing that is necessary for salvation that is not mentioned here is baptism [Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:20]. And on the necessity of baptism lies the teaching of “outside the Church there is no salvation:”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

The biggest thing you have to understand is that Matthew 25 does not give a full account of what is required to be saved.

 

[sidbrown]

The biggest thing you have to understand is that Matthew 25 does not give a full account of what is required to be saved.

So in that sense then, there is a contradiction between Matthew 25 and what is taught by the Catholic Church?

 

[zach_dunn]

So in that sense then, there is a contradiction between Matthew 25 and what is taught by the Catholic Church?

Once again, no, there isn’t. The Catholic Church never said “all you need to know and do to be saved is in Matthew chapter 25,” likewise, Matthew chapter 25 does not say “the following is all you need to know and do to be saved.” As I’ve told you many times before, there is more to salvation than what is contained in Matthew 25.

 

[sidbrown]

Once again, no, there isn’t. The Catholic Church never said “all you need to know and do to be saved is in Matthew chapter 25,” likewise, Matthew chapter 25 does not say “the following is all you need to know and do to be saved.” As I’ve told you many times before, there is more to salvation than what is contained in Matthew 25.

But if there are other things to be done, why would not Our Divine Lord have mentioned them? Is it OK to be ambiguous and leave the impression that if you perform the good works listed in Matthew 25 then you will be saved, and if you don’t you will go to hell, or would it have bene better to say definitely that this is only part of what you have to do to be saved so that it would not be misinterpreted ?

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

But if there are other things to be done, why would not Our Divine Lord have mentioned them? Is it OK to be ambiguous and leave the impression that if you perform the good works listed in Matthew 25 then you will be saved, and if you don’t you will go to hell, or would it have bene better to say definitely that this is only part of what you have to do to be saved so that it would not be misinterpreted ?

He did mention them, to the Apostles. They wrote that He said “He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.” You can’t distill the teaching of Jesus down to one verse of the Bible nor can you separate the Tradition of the Church from the words of the Bible. Others do that and are languishing in so many various interpretations that many are so confused they reject Christianity.

When something appears contradictory, it is our interpretation of it that is wrong and not the Church. A cursory reading of any text, even the Bible, will not get you to the full depth of the truth. Our study of the teachings of Jesus is far from complete, ending only in heaven.

 

[diggerdomer]

No, this does not contradict Catholicism. One thing you should no is that there is no salvation outside of the Church Period. The Cathoic Church says that our protestant bretheren are also part of the Church, just missing the fullness thats all. So, outside of the Church there is no salvation. Jesus stated the begining of the Church when he told St. Peter that he would be the rock upon which he would build his Church. So, it was and is today. If you are outside of God’s Church then you don’t beleive or know who he is.

Cajunboy1

I think it’s more accurate to say the Catholic Church teaches that outside of Christ there is no salvation.

 

[zach_dunn]

I think it’s more accurate to say the Catholic Church teaches that outside of Christ there is no salvation.

Christ’s Body is the Church, as you know. Plus that’s how the Fathers expounded it, and it is how it will continue to be expounded. So . . . yeah . . .