Does morality matter in video games?

[Tenofovir]

Softcore would be covered on the Catechism text, and hentai too, since these are simulations too.

I thought so too.

But someone could say they’re not simulations of sex itself. “real or simulated sexual acts”. Would just posing seductively be a simulated sexual act though? Arguably could as they would be part of “foreplay”.

 

[CesarAugustus]

I thought so too.

But someone could say they’re not simulations of sex itself. “real or simulated sexual acts”. Would just posing seductively be a simulated sexual act though? Arguably could as they would be part of “foreplay”.

Yes, simulations would be foreplay too.

From Saint Alphonsus:

…] every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act …]

 

[Kamaduck]

About making out:

We’ve already diverted a question about choices in video games into a discussion that’s mostly concerned with what counts as pornography and the effects of simulated violence. I really don’t think the morality of making out is at all relevant to the question posed in the OP.

Soft core porn is not porn then? That section of the Catechism does not involve soft core porn and only “hard core” or simulated “hard core”. But the same rationale could apply though. That woman who is modelling naked with the intent to titillate is doing that in front of a camera for money, instead of doing so with her husband or not doing it at all.

I would say that the paragraph from the catechism only clearly refers to “hard core” pornography. I can’t definitively say whether the church considers viewing “soft core” pornography to be the same sin.

Either way, I think viewing it would be wrong. Either because of the intent of the viewer (lust), or because they would be supporting something which is obviously intended to tempt other people to lust.

Why necessarily unambiguously?

Because if hypothetical-you is looking at something that might be porn, we have to debate whether it’s actually porn first. I’m just gonna assume this material that all of us would clearly consider porn.

Only if you define only sex as pornographic. But mainstream use of pornography includes soft core too. So there would be a difference between sex and mere “erotica”? ( I hate these terms.)

The short answer is that the Catechism doesn’t always use terms the way they’re used in general speech. An example off the top of my head is “sexuality”, which the Catechism seems to use to refer to maleness or femaleness. In general speech, though, the term usually refers to whether one ID’s as straight, gay, etc, or other things that have to do specifically with the sex act.

I think it’s possible that the Catechism uses the term “pornography” in a somewhat stricter sense than society in general, perhaps in part because society considers it a neutral term. I don’t know for sure, though. I’m just guessing.

 

[CesarAugustus]

We’ve already diverted a question about choices in video games into a discussion that’s mostly concerned with what counts as pornography and the effects of simulated violence. I really don’t think the morality of making out is at all relevant to the question posed in the OP.

I saw it mentioned, so I think that would be useful for reference.

I would say that the paragraph from the catechism only clearly refers to “hard core” pornography. I can’t definitively say whether the church considers viewing “soft core” pornography to be the same sin.

Since it says simulation, I think it includes softcore and drawn examples (hentai, etc) too.

Either way, I think viewing it would be wrong. Either because of the intent of the viewer (lust), or because they would be supporting something which is obviously intended to tempt other people to lust.

Yes, good point.

 

[CesarAugustus]

We’ve already diverted a question about choices in video games into a discussion that’s mostly concerned with what counts as pornography and the effects of simulated violence. I really don’t think the morality of making out is at all relevant to the question posed in the OP.

I saw it mentioned, so I think that would be useful for reference.

I would say that the paragraph from the catechism only clearly refers to “hard core” pornography. I can’t definitively say whether the church considers viewing “soft core” pornography to be the same sin.

Since it says simulation, I think it includes softcore and drawn examples (hentai, etc) too.

Either way, I think viewing it would be wrong. Either because of the intent of the viewer (lust), or because they would be supporting something which is obviously intended to tempt other people to lust.

Yes, good point.

 

[CesarAugustus]

We’ve already diverted a question about choices in video games into a discussion that’s mostly concerned with what counts as pornography and the effects of simulated violence. I really don’t think the morality of making out is at all relevant to the question posed in the OP.

I saw it mentioned, so I think that would be useful for reference.

I would say that the paragraph from the catechism only clearly refers to “hard core” pornography. I can’t definitively say whether the church considers viewing “soft core” pornography to be the same sin.

Since it says simulation, I think it includes softcore and drawn examples (hentai, etc) too.

Either way, I think viewing it would be wrong. Either because of the intent of the viewer (lust), or because they would be supporting something which is obviously intended to tempt other people to lust.

Yes, good point.

 

[CesarAugustus]

We’ve already diverted a question about choices in video games into a discussion that’s mostly concerned with what counts as pornography and the effects of simulated violence. I really don’t think the morality of making out is at all relevant to the question posed in the OP.

I saw it mentioned, so I think these would be useful for reference.

I would say that the paragraph from the catechism only clearly refers to “hard core” pornography. I can’t definitively say whether the church considers viewing “soft core” pornography to be the same sin.

I think simulated covers softcore and drawn depictions (like hentai, etc) too.

Either way, I think viewing it would be wrong. Either because of the intent of the viewer (lust), or because they would be supporting something which is obviously intended to tempt other people to lust.

Good point.

 

[Kamaduck]

I saw it mentioned, so I think these would be useful for reference.

Sorry. I was worried that other people would take it and run with the discussion in a completely different direction.

I think simulated covers softcore and drawn depictions (like hentai, etc) too.

I read “simulated” as referring to drawn or computer-created depictions, but not softcore porn. I guess it could go either way.

Either way, it would refer to the sort of “hard core” porn one might find in a video game.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Sorry. I was worried that other people would take it and run with the discussion in a completely different direction.

No problem.

I read “simulated” as referring to drawn or computer-created depictions, but not softcore porn. I guess it could go either way.

Either way, it would refer to the sort of “hard core” porn one might find in a video game.

Softcore would be a simulation too.

 

[Nate8080]

I think I can agree with this. I think there are many sex scenes that this doesn’t describe, though.

Care to elaborate? I can’t think of something which could be called a “sex scene” which isn’t explicit sexual intercourse…your Crusader Kings game definitely doesn’t count, a box of text isn’t a scene and certainly doesn’t turn anyone on.

 

[Kamaduck]

Care to elaborate? I can’t think of something which could be called a “sex scene” which isn’t explicit sexual intercourse…your Crusader Kings game definitely doesn’t count, a box of text isn’t a scene and certainly doesn’t turn anyone on.

No, I wouldn’t call the CK popup a “scene”.

I’m talking about the sort of thing you see on TV-14 television and PG-13 movies all the time- generally there’ll be two people in a bed, obviously implied to be having sex, but obscured by a sheet or something so that there’s no visible nudity.

I’m not saying I think these scenes are generally a good idea, mind you. I’m saying I wouldn’t be quick to call such scenes “pornography”.

 

[Nate8080]

No, I wouldn’t call the CK popup a “scene”.

I’m talking about the sort of thing you see on TV-14 television and PG-13 movies all the time- generally there’ll be two people in a bed, obviously implied to be having sex, but obscured by a sheet or something so that there’s no visible nudity.

I’m not saying I think these scenes are generally a good idea, mind you. I’m saying I wouldn’t be quick to call such scenes “pornography”.

No of course not…that makes sense. I’m just saying, in general, sex scenes in video games include nudity and explicit content and would thus be immoral to watch.

 

[Tenofovir]

No of course not…that makes sense. I’m just saying, in general, sex scenes in video games include nudity and explicit content and would thus be immoral to watch.

There really is no significant difference between a pretend sex scene (under covers, as on a PG14 show) and one which shows the actual act, unless one counts the sexual effects on the viewer as the difference. Both take something which is meant to be between the wife and husband and only between them, and make it public. So I have to disagree.

 

[Tenofovir]

Sorry. I was worried that other people would take it and run with the discussion in a completely different direction.

I read “simulated” as referring to drawn or computer-created depictions, but not softcore porn. I guess it could go either way.

Either way, it would refer to the sort of “hard core” porn one might find in a video game.

I think it’s obvious that “simulated” implies a simulated sexual act. I don’t think it covers hentai and animated porn at all. Simulated probably means in this context pretend sex as seen in mainstream Hollywood films, or soft core pornography. Real sex would be actual sex as in intercourse as occurs during conception.

That’s not saying that virtual simulated sex is morally OK. It’s just in this intuitively seems they imply simulated sex acts. They would speak of depictions of sex acts in text, film, picture form otherwise and would be more specific. It seems to me the focus here is more on the participants in the act too and in terms of virtual porn there are none.

Again for Caesar, that’s not to say porn in any form is permissible.

 

[Tenofovir]

I think the best thing is to approach an actual priest and ask. We’re not Protestants, that’s important to remember.

 

[Tenofovir]

I think it’s possible that the Catechism uses the term “pornography” in a somewhat stricter sense than society in general, perhaps in part because society considers it a neutral term. I don’t know for sure, though. I’m just guessing.

Kamaduck hence the term unambigously does not make sense, as you’ve used it because the Catechism would probably consider porn anything which debases the sexual aspects of the Sacrament of Marriage. What you or I consider porn or what Playboy magazine considers porn and not porn would not be relevant when it comes to that.

 

[Tenofovir]

I’m still not convinced that depictions of immoral acts which harm the dignity of persons or depict actions which move us further away from seeking the good, are themselves not immoral. If watching simulated sex when you’re not aroused by it is immoral, I don’t see why watching or playing out crimes such as stealing or sins such as lying would be any different.

 

[Nate8080]

I think the best thing is to approach an actual priest and ask. We’re not Protestants, that’s important to remember.

Let me tell you what the priests is guaranteed to say:

Video games are unhealthy, try to socialize or play board games. It’s annoying, these guys have no concept of modern entertainment. -_-

 

[Tenofovir]

Let me tell you what the priests is guaranteed to say:

Video games are unhealthy, try to socialize or play board games. It’s annoying, these guys have no concept of modern entertainment. -_-

How old are you?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

How old are you?

I hate to side with Nate against you dude but I think his complaint is quite valid. The last person who had a priest speak of video games posted their opinions here for all to see.

Needless to say only 1/10 priests gave opinions that weren’t unjustified, generalist bunk.