Does Obama have a Catholic problem?

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Yes, Obama has a Catholic problem. He has a Catholic problem with respect to policies on abortion, gay marriage, DOMA, conscience protection for religious groups, Planned Parenthood funding, embryonic stem cell destruction, and a number of other issues.
I agree with you, of course, but the bigger question being raised is how does this translate into a block of votes representing Catholics which is able to project power and influence policy. The President does stand in opposition against the American bishops in many of the issues you mentioned, but politically speaking, is this really a problem if there is no power representing the Catholic position offering opposition or alternatives to these issues? Not really. To be a political player you must project power. Power is represented by the number of votes you control or influence and the elections you are able to win by manipulating that vote. At one time in American history, the Catholic bishops were able to project such power through the immigrant Catholic vote. I don’t believe that is possible today. I believe this points to a change in the political concept of the “Catholic voter.” What is a “Catholic” voter and how is it possible to harness the power such votes might have? Ishii’s post points to a new way of looking at what constitutes a “Catholic” voter, but I’m not convinced that this new block has congealed or will be able to project political power on its own in the near future. In this sense, the President has a problem with the Catholic bishops, but not necessarily with the Catholic voter, and if the bishops are unable to project political power through the Catholic voter, then the President has no political problem at all.
 
The pill doesn’t always prevent conception - sometimes a woman will ovulate even while using it. However, the hormones in the pill also make the lining of uterus too thin to support implantation - so the fertilized egg fails to implant and dies from lack of nourishment. Hence it has both “abortifacient” as well as a contraceptive properties.

NFP capitalizes on the same principle - couples time their intercourse for those periods when a women is not “fertile” which includes the time between ovulation as well as the time when the uterus is not ready for implantation. That means that sometimes conception occurs, but the fertilized egg fails to implant and dies from lack of nourishment.
Good news for you, as a faithful Roman Catholic: you don’t have to use NFP. 👍

You absolutely can’t use artificial birth control, though.

Now, let’s get back to the actual topic.
 
I agree with you, of course, but the bigger question being raised is how does this translate into a block of votes representing Catholics which is able to project power and influence policy. The President does stand in opposition against the American bishops in many of the issues you mentioned, but politically speaking, is this really a problem if there is no power representing the Catholic position offering opposition or alternatives to these issues? Not really. To be a political player you must project power. Power is represented by the number of votes you control or influence and the elections you are able to win by manipulating that vote. At one time in American history, the Catholic bishops were able to project such power through the immigrant Catholic vote. I don’t believe that is possible today. I believe this points to a change in the political concept of the “Catholic voter.” What is a “Catholic” voter and how is it possible to harness the power such votes might have? Ishii’s post points to a new way of looking at what constitutes a “Catholic” voter, but I’m not convinced that this new block has congealed or will be able to project political power on its own in the near future. In this sense, the President has a problem with the Catholic bishops, but not necessarily with the Catholic voter, and if the bishops are unable to project political power through the Catholic voter, then the President has no political problem at all.
Yes, there is no monolithic Catholic vote for several reasons. It used to be that no politician of either party would ever get on the wrong side of say, Cardinal Spellman or Archbishop Sheen. Now, Catholic politicians openly dissent from their bishops, condescend to them, dismiss Catholic teaching, and the bishops take no action.

Not only that, but many Catholics have effectively gone over to the other side on issues affecting such matters as abortion on demand, gay marriage, funding for Planned Parenthood, and threats to religious liberty. Some Catholics have simply turned away from Catholic doctrine on the most basic issues affecting the survival of family and civilization, and told the Church “I’ll see you at mass on Sunday, and nowhere else.”

Catholics started out the 20th century as Democrats, and largely remained so. When that party became the “party of death,” to quote one bishop, nobody batted an eye or particularly objected to it. Is it any wonder that the politicos take Catholics for granted or ignore them entirely?
 
I agree with you, of course, but the bigger question being raised is how does this translate into a block of votes representing Catholics which is able to project power and influence policy. The President does stand in opposition against the American bishops in many of the issues you mentioned, but politically speaking, is this really a problem if there is no power representing the Catholic position offering opposition or alternatives to these issues? Not really. To be a political player you must project power. Power is represented by the number of votes you control or influence and the elections you are able to win by manipulating that vote. At one time in American history, the Catholic bishops were able to project such power through the immigrant Catholic vote. I don’t believe that is possible today. I believe this points to a change in the political concept of the “Catholic voter.” What is a “Catholic” voter and how is it possible to harness the power such votes might have? Ishii’s post points to a new way of looking at what constitutes a “Catholic” voter, but I’m not convinced that this new block has congealed or will be able to project political power on its own in the near future. In this sense, the President has a problem with the Catholic bishops, but not necessarily with the Catholic voter, and if the bishops are unable to project political power through the Catholic voter, then the President has no political problem at all.
The Bishops do not tell us how to vote - didn’t you read the “voter guide”? Catholics are expected to vote their conscience - and many Catholics are NOT impressed with either political party.

But I agree with you that this not a problem for the politicians. However, it is a problem for Catholics who do not wish to compromise any of their values.
 
Some Catholics have simply turned away
The overwhelming majority have turned away. My pastor puts it at about 80 percent right now, and that’s just the number of those who “self-identify” that don’t attend mass on Sunday. Factor in, then, that the overwhelming percentage of Catholics that do attend, do not believe in Catholicism, but believe in Private Interpretation.

I find that to be a large part of why it’s a joke to speak of the “Catholic vote”.
 
The overwhelming majority have turned away. My pastor puts it at about 80 percent right now, and that’s just the number of those who “self-identify” that don’t attend mass on Sunday. Factor in, then, that the overwhelming percentage of Catholics that do attend, do not believe in Catholicism, but believe in Private Interpretation.

I find that to be a large part of why it’s a joke to speak of the “Catholic vote”.
Well, that’s pretty sad. I don’t think it’s 80% in this area, but there’s no doubt that there is a great deal of silent apostasy.

Still, I have seen a great many young people around here in the Catholic grade and high schools, who seem resolutely more orthodox in their Catholicism than their elders.
 
The overwhelming majority have turned away. My pastor puts it at about 80 percent right now, and that’s just the number of those who “self-identify” that don’t attend mass on Sunday. Factor in, then, that the overwhelming percentage of Catholics that do attend, do not believe in Catholicism, but believe in Private Interpretation.

I find that to be a large part of why it’s a joke to speak of the “Catholic vote”.
If what you describe is not a “Catholic problem” - I don’t know what is.😦
 
It is a problem, and one that I’m grateful to not be a part of. I don’t argue with what the Church teaches, publicly, or privately.
Not to be uncharitable or anything, but that’s a bit arrogant. :rolleyes:

FYI: You’re a sinner too. Remember?
 
I wanted to quote a post that basically listed all of the policies Obama had which made a Catholic problem: abortion, contraception, DOMA, medical conscience rights, planned parenthood, etc. With experience, I feel that quoting people SOMETIMES makes people skip over your post, bc they think they’re only responding to that person.

I hate to be cynical. No seriously, I don’t want to add this cynical comment here. But, I feel I must. And, I know y’all will agree with me.

I can see how Obama has a Catholic problem… but only with roughly half of Catholics in this country who actually vote for politicians that are pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, pro-family. Only about half of Catholics vote for politicians who take the Church’s stance on the above mentioned issues.

I think 54% of Catholics voted for Obama in 2008, is that right?

So… even if Obama has a problem with orthodox Catholics… it seems to me that there are enough unorthodox Catholics in this country to cancel out this ‘problem’, or to solve it. So, I would say, out of cynicism, that he does not have a Catholic problem for the election.

An attempt at optimism would be: hopefully the priests would give homilies which inform the laity how to vote this time around. Which, is to tick the box that isn’t Barack Obama.
 
Obama and those that support his anti-life agenda are unknowing dupes of the forces of death, much like Margaret Sanger.
 
I wanted to quote a post that basically listed all of the policies Obama had which made a Catholic problem: abortion, contraception, DOMA, medical conscience rights, planned parenthood, etc. With experience, I feel that quoting people SOMETIMES makes people skip over your post, bc they think they’re only responding to that person.

I hate to be cynical. No seriously, I don’t want to add this cynical comment here. But, I feel I must. And, I know y’all will agree with me.

I can see how Obama has a Catholic problem… but only with roughly half of Catholics in this country who actually vote for politicians that are pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, pro-family. Only about half of Catholics vote for politicians who take the Church’s stance on the above mentioned issues.

I think 54% of Catholics voted for Obama in 2008, is that right?

So… even if Obama has a problem with orthodox Catholics… it seems to me that there are enough unorthodox Catholics in this country to cancel out this ‘problem’, or to solve it. So, I would say, out of cynicism, that he does not have a Catholic problem for the election.

An attempt at optimism would be: hopefully the priests would give homilies which inform the laity how to vote this time around. Which, is to tick the box that isn’t Barack Obama.
Obama is in danger of losing the Catholic vote, as you will see in my next post.
 
In an op-ed for The Hill, John Feehery nails Obama’s Catholic Problem:
Code:
[INDENT]The Obama administration is treading on dangerous water here. Catholics don’t vote as a straight bloc, but winning the Catholic vote is critical to winning elections.

Catholics also don’t necessarily all agree on every issue. There are plenty of pro-choice Catholic voters, just as there are orthodox Catholics who agree with the pope on everything.

But what Catholic voters don’t like is the idea of the federal government attacking the church for being what it is.
That last line is the money quote: Catholics don’t like being attacked for simply being Catholic.

That’s what the Obama administration has been doing when it, for instance, mandates Catholic hospitals to cover contraception help CatholicVote oppose this], or when the (Obama-stacked) National Labor Relations Board decides that St. Xavier –a Catholic university– is not Catholic enough, and that it can force the university to accept labor unions.

These two issues are only the tip of the iceberg. I’ve chronicled in the past years numerous other instances where Obama has made it difficult for the Catholic Church to pursue her mission: on conscience rights, on protecting the unborn, on preserving and promoting the institution of marriage, on religious liberty — you name it. But don’t just take my word, read what Feehery writes.

In fact, there’s good evidence to suggest that Obama has already lost the Catholic Vote. The question is whether he can possibly get it back. It’s critical that he does — because, as Feehery and others point out, if you lose the Catholic vote in the presidential election, you lose. Period.

Here’s why Obama has probably already lost the Catholic Vote — or why it is at least up for grabs. Exit polling from the last national elections in 2010 show, depending on which polls you consult, anywhere from a 24-point **to an **URL=“http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=11150”]18-point Catholic swing from supporting Democrats to supporting Republicans. The Associated Press claimed Catholics supported the GOP by 58%, CNN said it was 55%, and a CNN exit poll pegged Catholic support of the GOP in 2010 at 53%.

Bush beat Kerry in 2004 with only 52% of the Catholic Vote. Which means that whatever poll you consult, Obama was already at least 6 points behind Bush’s 2004 winning-level of support in 2010, and Obama’s poll numbers have only decreased since then.

Here’s the caveat: lots of Democrats didn’t go out and vote in 2010, and off-year elections are always tougher on the incumbent party in power (in 2010 that was the Democrats). Additionally, Democrats largely neglected Catholic outreach in the 2010 elections. So 2012 will be more of an uphill climb because we can count on Democrats to have learned their lesson about not courting Catholics. But the prognosis remains favorable if the current trends hold.

That’s why we’ll need all hands on deck to keep Catholics in the column of the candidate and party that best represents Catholic social teaching on foundational issues as life, marriage, family, subsidiarity, and religious freedom in 2012.

Please visit CatholicVote’s homepage to see how you can immediately help.

And continue to prepare for the good fight ahead.

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=20989[/INDENT]
 
Perhaps, but those babies are not intended to survive either now are they?

But forgive me, I’m in a grumpy mood. I just read that Steve Jobs has died. That makes me kind of sad and not in the mood for gratuitous Obama bashing which is how the OP appears to me.
So don’t enter the topic. What did you expect?
 
Obamas i good president in my eyes, he done alot for change, i would think more than wrong? what do you think?
SPAM alert. You can always spot these posters. I expect the next few posts my ARMSDAY will be discounts on Reeboks made in Botswana.
 
The Bishops do not tell us how to vote - didn’t you read the “voter guide”? Catholics are expected to vote their conscience - and many Catholics are NOT impressed with either political party.

But I agree with you that this not a problem for the politicians. However, it is a problem for Catholics who do not wish to compromise any of their values.
Oh yes, I understand that the Bishops do not tell Catholics how to vote, but it would be naive to assume that the Bishops are not influential in shaping the vote of many Catholics. Catholics are expected to vote an informed conscience, which of course necessitates some understanding of the faith and why the Church holds certain positions and not others. As I’ve stated in a previous post, I’m not all that convinced that there is a Catholic vote that can be harnessed by political parties. I believe there was such a thing in the past, and the Bishops certainly did not hesitate to use the Catholic vote to impress political parties of their influence, but I think the concept of what constitutes a “Catholic voter” is changing. At one time the term “Catholic” was almost a cultural term. That cultural aspect of Catholicism, though still present, does not provide as strong an identitity for Catholics as it once did. In order to harness a “Catholic” block, that identity will have to be reasserted and I don’t see that happening for a while yet.
 
Yes, there is no monolithic Catholic vote for several reasons. It used to be that no politician of either party would ever get on the wrong side of say, Cardinal Spellman or Archbishop Sheen. Now, Catholic politicians openly dissent from their bishops, condescend to them, dismiss Catholic teaching, and the bishops take no action.

Not only that, but many Catholics have effectively gone over to the other side on issues affecting such matters as abortion on demand, gay marriage, funding for Planned Parenthood, and threats to religious liberty. Some Catholics have simply turned away from Catholic doctrine on the most basic issues affecting the survival of family and civilization, and told the Church “I’ll see you at mass on Sunday, and nowhere else.”

Catholics started out the 20th century as Democrats, and largely remained so. When that party became the “party of death,” to quote one bishop, nobody batted an eye or particularly objected to it. Is it any wonder that the politicos take Catholics for granted or ignore them entirely?
I don’t think Obama has ignored the “Catholic vote” at all. What was he doing at Notre Dame? Why did he appoint Sebelius and Sotomayor? There is a dissident segment of Catholics, and Obama could not possibly fail to know that. For those who fundamentally reject the magesterium of the Church, the option, for years and not because of Obama, has been a sort of “Liberation Theology Lite”, a vague notion that somehow pursuing “social justice” in the form of taxing others for presumably altruistic purposes is a superior moral course over following the laws of the Church (including charity) in all respects.

Many commentators have opined that there are 'two Catholic Churches" in the U.S.; the one that follows the magesterium and the one that excuses itself from doing so by falling back on the “Liberation Theology Lite” way of seeing things. Obama knows that, and courts the “LTL” church while oppressing the faithful one.

It isn’t as stark a thing as the division of the Church in China between the government-compliant “Patriotic Church” and the real one, but it’s of the same general nature.

Parenthetically, it may be noted that, while 54% of Catholics voted for Obama, only 46% of white Catholics did. 46% is a lot, but the difference was made up of the Hispanic vote. Now, one might ask what kind of catechesis are they, in particular, getting, not that the catechesis of white Catholics is all that superlative. It may be considered odd that Hispanics, who are believed to be anti-abortion, would nevertheless vote for an abortionist candidate. Did they know? Or, knowing, did they think other objectives could be achieved with Obama and swallowed his pro-abortion stance in order to achieve them?

Here, I think, is Obama’s “Catholic problem”. A percentage of Catholics; perhaps close to 50% simply will not vote for him, no matter what. Some, undoubtedly, because of the policies of death, and some, probably, because of economic or secular philosophical reasons. But regardless, almost 50% are lost to him, no matter what.

What about the others, then? Do Hispanics still not know he’s pro-abortion? Do they know but still think he can somehow deliver economic benefits to them and will support him anyway, in the face of no economic accomplishments? And what about dissident Catholics who accept his abortionism but think he has economic goods to deliver to “the poor” or to themselves, i.e., the “State(ist) Catholic Church”?

In other words, will Obama’s “State Catholic Church” still be there, in full, for him in 2012?
Lacking, as he does, the power enjoyed by Chinese leaders, he cannot compel compliance with his vision of the Church. He can promise favor for complicity, but his performance so far belies his ability to deliver. He has a stick with which to beat the faithful Church and is using it to the extent he can. But I think he just might be out of carrots for the members of the State Church.
 
It’s interesting that Obama would attacks the Catholics and Christians yet he exempt Obamacare for Muslim. ObamaCare is DEMANDING that every American Catholics and Christians of good conscience who believes in the Jesus put themselves in a position wherein they are in grave sin and are rejecting and betraying Christ, and are thus in danger of eternal damnation, according to the teachings of Christ and His Church. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT. ObamaCare makes it FUNCTIONALLY IMPOSSIBLE to be a Catholic. It prohibits the FREE EXERCISE of Catholicism. Period. This is not debatable. It is an objective fact.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I guess the separation of church and state no longer exist with the Obama administration. A few weeks ago, Obama supporters compare him to Jesus (youtube.com/watch?v=r3sJF5vdGys&feature=player_embedded).

Obama compares himself with the three Jewish prophets Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego/ Obama insinuating that faith in Obama’s policies is kind of like faith in God (campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/obama-asks-biblical-faith-his-agenda).

Almost 1/4 of all hospitals are run by Catholic Charities. If Obama try to force them to do abortions or faced heavy fines, the Church will eventually close the hospitals. Who loses then? Can we afford more people out of work ? If you are a Catholic and you voted for Obama, I think you should stop being a Catholic and the church should refuse you communion, since you no longer believe in the church teaching and the sanctity of life.
 
cnsnews.com/news/article/darn-tooting-obama-brags-about-hhs-reg-catholic-bishops-call-attack-liberty

(CNSNews.com) - Bantering with the audience at a fundraiser in St. Louis yesterday, President Barack Obama bragged about a new regulation, proposed by the Department of Health and Human Services, that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has denounced as an “unprecedented attack on religious liberty.”

“Darn right!” an audience member at the fundraiser shouted as Obama described the regulation.

“Darn tooting!” Obama said back.

The proposed regulation, designed to implement part of Obamacare, will require all private health plans in the United States to cover sterilizations and all FDA-approved contraceptives–including those that cause abortions—without charging any fees or co-pay. These regulations were drawn to implement a provision in Obama’s health-care law that calls for all health-care plans to cover “preventive services.”

Obama continued. “No longer can insurance companies discriminate against women just because you guys are the ones who have to give birth.”

I find our president crass, among other things.
Amen on your last line!

Another reason why Obama has to be ‘booted out’ of office come next November.

He hates the Catholic Church and will do everything to destroy Her influence in this country.

He MUST BE STOPPED! He MUST BE DEFEATED AT THE POLLS!
 
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