Does purgatory really exist?

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Mickey said:
What does this mean?
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Fire, retribution, pain, idea of “place,” temporal measurement of time.

Gotta go. I hope another Eastern or Oriental can help you out on further questions.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Mickey said:
It is very simple rinnie. Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition does not point to such a doctrine. When the Churches were one, such an odd doctrine did not exist.

ps–I also do not accept the RC theory of development of this doctrine after the Churches split.
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Actually scripture does. That story was in the bible and part of Holy Scripture and Tradition long before the split.
 
mardukm said:
Fire, retribution, pain, idea of “place,” temporal measurement of time.
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Interesting. You deny that “purgatory” might be a place. And you deny that “purgatory” might involve suffering by fire.

I think there are many Roman Catholics that might disagree with you.
 
rinnie said:
Lets say I give you this, where was he experiening it at? In heaven or hell? Because you deny purgatory. so where was he.
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Newsflash. The general Resurrection has not yet ocurred. What do you think he was experiencing? Here is a clue: His tongue was burning. He was begging for a drop of water.

Do you think that purgatory is a third place?
 
Mickey said:
Where?
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In that story. Jesus said that the rich man could see Lazurus and Lazurus looked pretty happy. He was indeed in heaven was he not. Because if there was no heaven then where was Lazurus?😃
 
Mickey said:
Newsflash. The general Resurrection has not yet ocurred. What do you think he was experiencing? Here is a clue: His tongue was burning. He was begging for a drop of water.

Do you think that purgatory is a third place?
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Also Hell is total separation from God, how did Abraham get there. Are you saying Abraham was in hell. I know what he was experiencing I want to hear you answer.
 
rinnie said:
Also Hell is total separation from God, how did Abraham get there. Are you saying Abraham was in hell. I know what he was experiencing I want to hear you answer.
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You are confused. I am talking about the rich man. Lazarus was elsewhere with Abraham.

Why would you say that Abraham is in hell?
 
rinnie said:
In that story. Jesus said that the rich man could see Lazurus and Lazurus looked pretty happy. He was indeed in heaven was he not. Because if there was no heaven then where was Lazurus?
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I thought you were trying to make a case for purgatory? :confused:
 
Mickey said:
You are confused. I am talking about the rich man. Lazarus was elsewhere with Abraham.

Why would you say that Abraham is in hell?
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I never said he was, you did. Who was the rich man talking to, and where was he when he was talking?
 
Mickey said:
You are confused. I am talking about the rich man. Lazarus was elsewhere with Abraham.

Why would you say that Abraham is in hell?
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How can this be. Lets start again, who was the rich man talking to, and where was he when he was talking to this person? (it may take me while to get back to you. don’t think I am ignoring you, I work at home and have 2 colors comming any minute).
 
rinnie said:
Lets start again, who was the rich man talking to, and where was he when he was talking to this person?
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It should also be observed that the Rich Man saw Abraham with Lazarus in his bosom. He saw the glory of Abraham, but he had no share in this glory. By contrast, Lazarus both saw it and participated in it. This is a very significant point, for it shows that in that other life everyone will see God, but the righteous will have communion, participation, while the sinners will not. A characteristic example is what Christ said about the coming judgement. All will see the Judge, all will converse with Him, but some will enjoy His glory and others will experience the caustic energy of divine grace.
****Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos
 
Mickey said:
Interesting. You deny that “purgatory” might be a place. And you deny that “purgatory” might involve suffering by fire.

I think there are many Roman Catholics that might disagree with you.
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That’s fine. I don’t mind if they disagree with me. I’m secure in the fact that the Magisterium does not impose their particularly Latin beliefs on me. I believe exactly what the DOGMA states as a faithful Catholic.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
I’m secure in the fact that the Magisterium does not impose their particularly Latin beliefs on me.
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Are you not compelled to accept these “particularly Latin beliefs” of the Magisterium under pain of ex-communication.

I would think that your comment may offend many Latin Catholics.
 
Mickey said:
Are you not compelled to accept these “particularly Latin beliefs” of the Magisterium under pain of ex-communication.
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The particularly Latin beliefs are not dogmatic, so I’m not compelled to accept any of them. I accept the dogma and that’s the only thing I as a faithful Orthodox in communion with Rome am required to accept.
I would think that your comment may offend many Latin Catholics.
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I hope any Latin Catholics that read this would offer their opinion if they are insulted that I do not accept the particularly Latin beliefs on Purgatory.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Mickey said:
Are you not compelled to accept these “particularly Latin beliefs” of the Magisterium under pain of ex-communication.

I would think that your comment may offend many Latin Catholics.
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I can’t speak for other Catholics but I was a pre-VatII Latin cradle Catholic who left the Church and later, as a Protestant, rejected the doctrine of purgatory outright as unbiblical but even then I never considered the language which described it as a “place” with fire and punishment to be necessarily literal. We were even told back then, I believe, that the idea of it being a place was probably a figurative usage of the word-that we didn’t know exactly how the program worked “there”.
 
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