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cecilia97
Guest
Luke 1:43 “And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my LORD should come to me?”
Sounds like Elizabeth is calling Mary the Mother of God…unless she had some other Lord.
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MariaG
Guest
Certainly I will discuss this with you as I too went off tangent, but first can we focus on whether or not Repeating a prayers is what was meant by vainly repetitious?
Unless you wish to continue to deny the scripture that REPEATS prayers, like many psalms and are saying those inspired words of God, those prayers, are prayers like the heathen? God inspired heathen like prayers? God has the angels pray to Him as heathens pray? Christ prayed as heathens prayed? Paul prayed as heathens prayed?
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MariaG
Guest
Actually, I have to go, so any further discussion from me with have to wait. I know you have to be deeply disappointed believers
But I will be interested if you are capable of admitting that repeating a prayer is not the same thing as praying like a heathen since we see repetitious prayer throughout God’s inspired word.
Vainly Repetitous (prayers like a heathen) are NOT the same as repeating a prayer as even Our Lord did, as Paul did, as God inspired the psalmists to do, as the angels do.
God Bless and good night.
Maria
But I will be interested if you are capable of admitting that repeating a prayer is not the same thing as praying like a heathen since we see repetitious prayer throughout God’s inspired word.
Vainly Repetitous (prayers like a heathen) are NOT the same as repeating a prayer as even Our Lord did, as Paul did, as God inspired the psalmists to do, as the angels do.
God Bless and good night.
Maria
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maryjk
Guest
A Catholic Prayer : Hail Mary, full of Grace…
A Protestant Prayer: Lord, we just wanna…
How is one vain repetition and one isn’t?
Do Protestants write down their prayers every day so that they don’t say the same thing again? I think not, since almost every prayer that I have heard a Protestant say starts with, “Lord, I/We just wanna…”
Jesus prayed the same things over and over again.
Angels pray the same things over and over again.
But since “believers” says that Catholics pray with vain repetition if we pray the same prayer, we should stop.
. I think not.
A Protestant Prayer: Lord, we just wanna…
How is one vain repetition and one isn’t?
Do Protestants write down their prayers every day so that they don’t say the same thing again? I think not, since almost every prayer that I have heard a Protestant say starts with, “Lord, I/We just wanna…”
Jesus prayed the same things over and over again.
Angels pray the same things over and over again.
But since “believers” says that Catholics pray with vain repetition if we pray the same prayer, we should stop.
. I think not.
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George_Craft
Guest
KJV= for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
DRB= For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.
Sounds like the same thought from both versions, speaking repetitively to be heard. That isn’t even close to meditative prayer. We know God hears our prayers, we’re not repeating them to be heard.
For me personally, the repetition of the “Glory Be to the Father, to the Son and to the Holy Spirit” clears my mind and opens me to contemplate the mysteries of my Lord’s life.
I can’t possibly consider that the same as heathens shouting to their gods so they’ll be heard.
With love,
George
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believers
Guest
If you want to take it upon yourself to say what is vain repitition and what isn’t, then by all means build your christian foundation with those materials (1Cr 3:12). You can have your rosary beads just like the heathens. Pray to Mary if that’s what you believe.
I will not even go there. I won’t test the waters or push the envelope. A method of praying is obviously forbidden. The creator said it so it must be important.
Jesus and Paul did not pray as heathens. The unbelieving gentiles are heathens.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
G945
βαττολογέω
battologeō
bat-tol-og-eh’-o
From Βάττος Battos (a proverbial stammerer) and G3056; to stutter, that is, (by implication) to prate tediously: - use vain repetitions.
I have noticed that Protestants that created the Strong’s Dictionary tend to make up phrases. These made up phrases are usually at the end with a hyphen separating it from the original and true meaning.
Also Strong’s dictionary always uses the root of the actual word in an attempt delude people
here is the actual word from the greek:
βατταλογήσητε from:
Προσευχόμενοι δὲ μὴ βατταλογήσητε ὥσπερ οἱ ἐθνικοί, δοκοῦσιν γὰρ ὅτι ἐν τῇ πολυλογίᾳ αὐτῶν εἰσακουσθήσονται.
βατταλογήσητε differs greatly from βαττολογέω
βατταλογήσητε
βαττολογέω
I have tried to fins a web site that will translate βαττολογέω to english. Every website comes up nil.
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believers
Guest
The Hail Mary is a prayer to a creature. I pray to the creator only.A Catholic Prayer : Hail Mary, full of Grace…
A Protestant Prayer: Lord, we just wanna…
How is one vain repetition and one isn’t?
Do Protestants write down their prayers every day so that they don’t say the same thing again? I think not, since almost every prayer that I have heard a Protestant say starts with, “Lord, I/We just wanna…”
Jesus prayed the same things over and over again.
Angels pray the same things over and over again.
But since “believers” says that Catholics pray with vain repetition if we pray the same prayer, we should stop.
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believers
Guest
Like the heathen. Look up that part too while you’re at it.
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exoflare
Guest
I don’t think you know what “pray” means.
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maryjk
Guest
The Hail Mary is asking someone to pray for me. I am asking Mary, the Mother of God to pray for me.
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners, now
And at the hour of our death.
And you didn’t comment on the repetitiousness of Protestants.
The whole point is that you are claiming that any repetition is vain repetition. But time and time again, we have shown you that it is not. Everyone uses repetition in prayer. Repeating a prayer does not make it vain.
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exoflare
Guest
It still depends on how you look at it.
Let’s wait for believers to tell us if they know what “pray” means.
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cecilia97
Guest
Sadly, I think what believers is claiming is that Catholic repetition is vain and the repetition found in the bible and in non-Catholic churches is not. But so far nothing in this thread has shwon how the three are different, so it must be up to one’s personal opinion. Oh, and that somehow beads make things vain…because some non-Christian religions have beads in common with Catholics.
This is why I had given up trying to use logic in religious discussions. Why I changed my mind I have no idea.
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maryjk
Guest
So, if I use a book or my fingers, I am okay?Oh, and that **somehow beads make things vain…**because some non-Christian religions have beads in common with Catholics.
This is why I had given up trying to use logic in religious discussions. Why I changed my mind I have no idea.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
A protestant Pastor Dr David Jeremiah of Turning Point made a serious statement about prayer.A Catholic Prayer : Hail Mary, full of Grace…
A Protestant Prayer: Lord, we just wanna…
How is one vain repetition and one isn’t?
Do Protestants write down their prayers every day so that they don’t say the same thing again? I think not, since almost every prayer that I have heard a Protestant say starts with, “Lord, I/We just wanna…”
Jesus prayed the same things over and over again.
Angels pray the same things over and over again.
But since “believers” says that Catholics pray with vain repetition if we pray the same prayer, we should stop.
Here is the jist(gist?) of it:
David equated it to vain usage of the persons name. He went on to say that too many christians do that when they pray to God. Their prayer made be 100 sentences and every sentence starts with God.
So take the Lords prayer:
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
notice how it never reference God at all.
Now this is how some of my inbred Protestant Pentecostal relatives would render the same prayer if Jesus gave it to them in a dream and they wrote it down after waking up.
GOD you is our Father.
GOD you be in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name God.
GOD your kingdom come,
GOD your will be done in earth,
as it is in heaven GOD.
GOD give us this day our daily bread.
And GOD forgive us our debts,
as we forgive our debtors GOD.
And GOD lead us not into temptation,
but GOD deliver us from evil:
GOD is the kingdom,
and GOD is the power,
and the GOD is glory,
GOD is for ever.
Amen GOD .
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
I remember my days as a youth in a Congregational Holiness church Sunday morning, night, and wednesday night…
They would have Altar Call and every body would come around and start praying after about 10 minutes everybody would just stand around for another 20 minutes saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over.
One would be saying “Praise Jesus” over and over and over and over and over and over.
Another would be saying something else similar over and over and over and over and over.
Vain Repitition?
They would have Altar Call and every body would come around and start praying after about 10 minutes everybody would just stand around for another 20 minutes saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over.
One would be saying “Praise Jesus” over and over and over and over and over and over.
Another would be saying something else similar over and over and over and over and over.
Vain Repitition?
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
Better cut dem fangers off. Don’t wont to off-fend Gawd!So, if I use a book or my fingers, I am okay?
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cecilia97
Guest
Yes, I think if it keeps you from looking Muslim or Buddhist, you’re in the clear.So, if I use a book or my fingers, I am okay?
Wondering now if the angels in heaven are Buddhist? …
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MariaG
Guest
At this point I would just be happy for you to admit that repeating prayers does not NECESSARILY mean something is vainly repetitious since scripture is filled with prayers that repeat.
If you do not wish to further explore whether or not the Rosary is vainly repetitious, we certainly won’t go there.
However, the decision on whether or not the Rosary is “vainly repetitious” cannot be made simply on the argument that the prayers are repeated.
As we both can agree, Jesus and Paul did not pray like the heathens. Yet they DID repeat their prayers, therefore, repeating a prayer is not something that makes it intrinsically a prayer like the heathen.
Can you outright admit that? Repeating prayers does not necessarily make it vainly repetitious? Again, this will not be seen as an admission specifically towards whether or not the Rosary is vainly repetitious.
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