Does 'repetition' = 'vain repitition'?

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MariaG said:
First, where did I compare myself to angels? I said, that according to your interpretation, angels MUST be praying like heathens since they repeat over and over and over the same thing. But I see you have chosen to add a new rule on who can repeat and who can’t.

But as already pointed out, the psalmist’s, inspired by God, wrote repetitve prayers. Words repeated over and over and over. So why are these prayers not like the heathen?

I really am trying to make sense of your position. Maybe if you analyzed a psalm and told me exactly why these repetitive prayers are not like a heathen I could better understand you? All I see are repeated words that are not vain repetition, but you seem to see something else since you refuse to acknowledge that one can repeat something over and over and it not be vain repetition.
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Angels can’t pray like heathens because heathens don’t pray to God.
 
believers said:
The psalmist was writing to man not praying to God. Who should give thanks? We should. Why? for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

Psa 136:1
O give thanks unto the LORD; for [he is] good: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.

Psa 136:2
O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.
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The psalms are in fact prayers to God. They were made for praise and worship of Him.
from New Advent Psalms
Not only these songs of praise, but the entire collection of psalms made up a manual for temple service – a service chiefly of praise; hence the name “Praises” was given to the manual itself.
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MariaG said:
First, where did I compare myself to angels? I said, that according to your interpretation, angels MUST be praying like heathens since they repeat over and over and over the same thing. But I see you have chosen to add a new rule on who can repeat and who can’t.
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Maria, this is an absolutely fantastic point, and right to the heart of the matter. In his condemnation of vainly repetitious prayer, Jesus does not qualify who is and isn’t permitted to utter repetitious prayer. ‘believers,’ you are trying to make the scriptures say something they don’t by adding qualifications to Jesus’ words, that only certain beings can offer repetitious prayers. I don’t see anything in Matthew 6 that says, “oh, but you angels in heaven, you’re exempt from this rule about vain repetition because you don’t need salvation.”
MariaG said:
But as already pointed out, the psalmist’s, inspired by God, wrote repetitve prayers. Words repeated over and over and over. So why are these prayers not like the heathen?
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Apparently, according to ‘believers,’ it is OK to repetitiously remind any audience of the attributes of God (as in the case of Psalm 136, with his never-ending and limitless mercy). But it isn’t OK to pray such things to God yourself. So, we can repeat ourselves to a human audience, but not to God. That’s another qualification ‘believers’ has just added to Matthew 6 - that you may repeat yourself to human audiences, but not to God.
 
djrakowski said:
Apparently, according to ‘believers,’ it is OK to repetitiously remind any audience of the attributes of God (as in the case of Psalm 136, with his never-ending and limitless mercy). But it isn’t OK to pray such things to God yourself. So, we can repeat ourselves to a human audience, but not to God. That’s another qualification ‘believers’ has just added to Matthew 6 - that you may repeat yourself to human audiences, but not to God.
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Yes, it would be nice if a definition would be given by believers since one gets the idea that the definition keeps changing so as to make sure Catholic prayer is prayer like the heathen:rolleyes:
 
believers said:
He’s God, you’re not. He obviously wasn’t praying like the heathen. He didn’t have a rosary either.
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Ah, yet another qualification on the words of scripture that aren’t in the actual text. I don’t recall seeing the words, “Do not pray in vain repetitions as the heathens do, while counting on their prayer beads.”

My Catholic brothers and sisters, do you see these words in the text, or those that restrict repetitious prayer to either angels praying around the throne in heaven, or Jesus praying in the garden, or the psalmist writing a hymn of praise to the Lord?
 
MariaG said:
Yes, it would be nice if a definition would be given by believers since one gets the idea that the definition keeps changing so as to make sure Catholic prayer is prayer like the heathen:rolleyes:
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[SIGN]Bingo![/SIGN]

Funny how I’ve gotten the same impression. The definition and bounds within which repetitious prayers are permitted keeps shifting as my Catholic brothers and sisters bring forth more scriptures that continue to refute the claims made by ‘believers.’
 
believers said:
Angels can’t pray like heathens because heathens don’t pray to God.
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MariaG said:
So again, one can repeat words, phrases, entire prayers TO GOD?
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I quote myself to add and clarify to as to try and pin down your defintion.

Since Angels are praying to God, that makes it intrinsically okay, even if they repeat themselves? Vainly repetitious like the heathens includes that which they are repeating AND praying to a false god? “Praying” defined as talking/worshiping to God or thinking one is talking/worshipping God in the case of the heathen?

Or if the only reason it is okay for the angels to repeat because they do not need salvation, where in scripture does it tell us this? And again, what about the psalmist since they were in fact written to praise and worship God? They were written to God, not men. They were written for the USE of men, but not TO men.
 
djrakowski said:
Ah, yet another qualification on the words of scripture that aren’t in the actual text. I don’t recall seeing the words, “Do not pray in vain repetitions as the heathens do, while counting on their prayer beads.”

My Catholic brothers and sisters, do you see these words in the text, or those that restrict repetitious prayer to either angels praying around the throne in heaven, or Jesus praying in the garden, or the psalmist writing a hymn of praise to the Lord?
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Yes, those things are NOT restricted in scripture and I don’t see why God would allow Christ, Paul, the psalmist, and His angels to give us such a bad example…

So now the logic seems to be:

it’s ok to pray repetitiously if 1) you’re not heathen (like the angels and Christ are not) and 2) you don’t use beads.

Well, as I said before, I’m certainly not heathen, so by ‘believers’ own logic I’m in the clear if I don’t use beads.
 
MariaG said:
So again, one can repeat words, phrases, entire prayers TO GOD?
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Yes, but apparently, only of one is an angel in heaven and not in need of salvation, or one is Jesus himself and praying to the Father in heaven and also not in need of salvation, or one is a psalmist writing songs of praise for use in the temple assembly who is in need of salvation.

The definitions and qualifications for what is and who can perform repetitious prayers are getting quite complicated!
 
djrakowski said:
Yes, but apparently, only of one is an angel in heaven and not in need of salvation, or one is Jesus himself and praying to the Father in heaven and also not in need of salvation, or one is a psalmist writing songs of praise for use in the temple assembly who is in need of salvation.

The definitions and qualifications for what is and who can perform repetitious prayers are getting quite complicated!
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And people say Catholics are rule bound with things not found in scripture:rolleyes:
 
believers said:
Angels can’t pray like heathens because heathens don’t pray to God.
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So earlier when you listed out 10 repetitions of the Lord’s Prayer, implying it was vainly repetitious to pray so…who exactly did you think those prayers were intended toward? God, surely!

I agree with you that angels can’t pray as heathens do. But I also assert that any person who sincerely intends his prayers for God, can repeat words, phrases, even entire prayers, and not be vainly repetitious.
 
believers said:
Thanks… “It’s SCRIPTURE!.Except for the last part” Then it’s UNSCRIPTURAL.
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Talk about playing with words to twist a meaning.

All except the last part is repeating scripture.
That last part is asking someone to pray for us.
While the text of the prayer is not a scripture quote is it absolutely scriptural to pray for our brothers and sisters and to ask them to pray for us.

PLEASE tell me you think it’s okay for us to pray to God for each other.

michel
 
believers said:
I can’t because you’re not defining the word “repeating”. I’m referring to “reptition”

If you say the Lord’s prayer… then say it again at some other time… then it’s not repititon. Heathens use repitition.

However, if you say the Lord’s prayer and immediately say it again, then immediately say it again, then again… then you’re praying like the heathen.
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No! Heathens use VAIN repitition!
 
cecilia97 said:
So earlier when you listed out 10 repetitions of the Lord’s Prayer, implying it was vainly repetitious to pray so…who exactly did you think those prayers were intended toward? God, surely!

I agree with you that angels can’t pray as heathens do. But I also assert that any person who sincerely intends his prayers for God, can repeat words, phrases, even entire prayers, and not be vainly repetitious.
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What part of the “as the heathens do” don’t you understand. Why don’t you listen to them. It’s exactly what you do.
 
believers said:
Yes they do. And, heathens also have a rosary to keep track of how many prayers they’ve said. Sound familiar?
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believers said:
What part of the “as the heathens do” don’t you understand. Why don’t you listen to them. It’s exactly what you do.
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Conduct Rule
#7Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.

Care to explain how Calling Catholic Christians heathens is repsectful of the Catholic Christian faith?
 
But I will say, good one.

When unable to actually explain your constant man-made rule changes, attack.

Where again in scripture does it tell us not to pray like Christ and the angels do?
 
MariaG said:
Care to explain how Calling Catholic Christians heathens is repsectful of the Catholic Christian faith?
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I think this line from believers’ profile may explain: “born into Catholicism; born-again into Christianity.” You see, we’re apparently not Christians, and therefore, the bounds of charity don’t apply :rolleyes:
 
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