Does Romney's support of minimum wage indicate shift in GOP?

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Miss_Felicity said:
As I explained in my earlier post, I am not trying to bankrupt a company, I’m not even trying to make what I made in my field, nor are most people I know who support raising the minimum wage but considering the lack of aid for working professionals especially those for have undergraduate degrees (despite loss of wage) unlike those who do not have an undergrad degree. Practically the money can only go so many places, so its food on the table, clothes on your backs or back to school in many cases. This is how many people end up “stuck” in jobs well below the wage they deserve or are trained for.
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If there isn’t sufficient aid i.e. financing, available for working professionals to finance education in new fields then that is something that governments can address.
Miss_Felicity said:
I think part of the problem is businesses are not adding higher level jobs to replace the ones that were lost, they have either turned into unpaid/underpaid internships, pay much less or have 1 person doing 2-3 people’s jobs.
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No the problem is thinking that businesses are required to provide higher level jobs. They aren’t. Business are created when a person or group of persons see an opportunity to provide a product or service that people will purchase that allows a living wage. Having higher level jobs comes with the success of the business.
Miss_Felicity said:
I don’t want to drive businesses to close their doors but businesses are not monolith, and to say they are overburdened is again an over simplification when many businesses have CEO’s making 300-450 times more than the lowest level employees. There will always be a wage gap between business owners and their lowest level employees but I just cannot wrap my brain around CEO’s that make on average of $8,000 an hr having an issue with raising minimum wage to one where a family or worker is not still dependant on the government for healthcare and food stamps.
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Actually many businesses don’t have a CEO and only a few make 300-450 times more than the lowest level employees. Most businesses are small and they are the biggest employers collectively.
 
Robert_Sock said:
👍 Nicely put. Our economic system is most complex, and promotes a good degree of poverty. People do not need luxuries, but they really need to earn enough to support a family. To claw your way upwards requires a certain aggressiveness that many people do not possess. If it was only education and training to achieve financially, that’s one thing, but such a person needs to become a competitor, in addition to having a good degree of intelligence.

LOVE! ❤️
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Our economic system does not promote a good degree of poverty. The quality of life for our poor is vastly superior to most of the rest of the world. Did you know that what we take as the standard of living for our poor is more than the average wage of most of the countries in the world? Do you know how many social welfare programs we have? Food stamps, WIC, TANF, Medicaid, Medicare, SS, SSI, etc. You want to see real poverty, look at the third world.

There has been no system, as yet discovered, that has improved the lot of the ordinary man more than Capitalism. There has been no system, as yet discovered, that can hold a candle to the productive powers that are unleashed by free market, free enterprise Capitalism.
 
Miss_Felicity said:
As I explained in my earlier post, I am not trying to bankrupt a company, I’m not even trying to make what I made in my field, nor are most people I know who support raising the minimum wage but considering the lack of aid for working professionals especially those for have undergraduate degrees (despite loss of wage) unlike those who do not have an undergrad degree. Practically the money can only go so many places, so its food on the table, clothes on your backs or back to school in many cases. This is how many people end up “stuck” in jobs well below the wage they deserve or are trained for.

I think part of the problem is businesses are not adding higher level jobs to replace the ones that were lost, they have either turned into unpaid/underpaid internships, pay much less or have 1 person doing 2-3 people’s jobs.
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Businesses will do what is best for the health of the business. Not many jobs if the business fails…

Regarding the earlier part of your post - what makes you think that professionals looking for a job “deserve” any kind of aid? There are numerous fields to go in, numerous majors. Some graduate with skills that are highly in demand. On the other hand, if the market for a profession is saturated, then perhaps that is something that should have been considered earlier. One of the issues is the price of higher education. It has increased way out of proportion to regular inflation. People graduate with huge student loans and are unable to find a job. I think some would be better off going to a vocational tech school where they could learn a skill that would help them get a job much sooner and make more than minimum wage. Maybe not as much as they would like but at least it would be more than minimum wage and there wouldn’t be so much debt. One important lessons to learn is that there are no guarantees in life. If you graduated with a degree in feminist studies, (I am not referring to you here) then you had better enjoy being a barista at Starbucks and be content making minimum wage.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Businesses will do what is best for the health of the business. Not many jobs if the business fails…

Regarding the earlier part of your post - what makes you think that professionals looking for a job “deserve” any kind of aid? There are numerous fields to go in, numerous majors. Some graduate with skills that are highly in demand. On the other hand, if the market for a profession is saturated, then perhaps that is something that should have been considered earlier. One of the issues is the price of higher education. It has increased way out of proportion to regular inflation. People graduate with huge student loans and are unable to find a job. I think some would be better off going to a vocational tech school where they could learn a skill that would help them get a job much sooner and make more than minimum wage. Maybe not as much as they would like but at least it would be more than minimum wage and there wouldn’t be so much debt. One important lessons to learn is that there are no guarantees in life. If you graduated with a degree in feminist studies, (I am not referring to you here) then you had better enjoy being a barista at Starbucks and be content making minimum wage.

Ishii
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I’m going to back out of this conversation, but I do want to thank you and everyone else in this thread for the discussion. I will have to agree to disagree on several things. I think there are fundamental differences of opinion which is fine, I just don’t think we will hash it out here. I chose a college major that was versatile and I could do a lot with, I had two concentrations. Most of all I chose what I love. While I know that there will be wage disparities based on field I think that people should do what they love and not only go to school for what they think will make the most money. I have been blessed, I had jobs making very good money and I also have made less money I’ve always survived, sometimes better than other times but I have always found a way to eat.

Indeed there are no guarantees in life, I hope I didn’t imply there were. I am interested in people being able to eat, I am interested in people living good lives overall. I know three people who have some sort of degree in feminist studies, none work at Starbucks, surprisingly both of the people I know who studied business do. Part of the reason I tell people to choose something they love. As for professionals deserving aid, I think people who have worked, paid taxes, and contributed should have some options in being able to take next steps. Perhaps thats the social justice part of me shrug. I admit I’m not a excellent capitalist.
 
Miss_Felicity said:
I’m going to back out of this conversation, but I do want to thank you and everyone else in this thread for the discussion. I will have to agree to disagree on several things. I think there are fundamental differences of opinion which is fine, I just don’t think we will hash it out here. I chose a college major that was versatile and I could do a lot with, I had two concentrations. Most of all I chose what I love. While I know that there will be wage disparities based on field I think that people should do what they love and not only go to school for what they think will make the most money. I have been blessed, I had jobs making very good money and I also have made less money I’ve always survived, sometimes better than other times but I have always found a way to eat.

Indeed there are no guarantees in life, I hope I didn’t imply there were. I am interested in people being able to eat, I am interested in people living good lives overall. I know three people who have some sort of degree in feminist studies, none work at Starbucks, surprisingly both of the people I know who studied business do. Part of the reason I tell people to choose something they love… Perhaps thats the social justice part of me shrug. I admit I’m not a excellent capitalist.
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I am sorry you’re backing out of the conversation - that’s too bad. But let me correct a misconception I may have given you: I don’t think people should only go to school for what they think will help them make the most money. Quite the contrary. However, people should think about the responsibility for providing themselves (and others) and take the necessary steps to ensure that they have marketable skills that will help them stay employed. We don’t always have the luxury of “doing what we love.”

I have no idea what you mean here:
Miss_Felicity said:
As for professionals deserving aid, I think people who have worked, paid taxes, and contributed should have some options in being able to take next steps
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Next steps? The problem is that taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for anyone’s “next step” or desire to do what they love. Furthermore, I highly doubt that in this country where obesity is becoming an epidemic, people are having difficulty putting food on the table. I am interested in people living good lives too - and I truly understand that its difficult currently in this job market. Hopefully the workers who have attended college but are underemployed will find something more fulfilling and meaningful - and rewarding financially.

Ishii
 
freeRadical said:
Our economic system does not promote a good degree of poverty. The quality of life for our poor is vastly superior to most of the rest of the world. Did you know that what we take as the standard of living for our poor is more than the average wage of most of the countries in the world? Do you know how many social welfare programs we have? Food stamps, WIC, TANF, Medicaid, Medicare, SS, SSI, etc. You want to see real poverty, look at the third world.

There has been no system, as yet discovered, that has improved the lot of the ordinary man more than Capitalism. There has been no system, as yet discovered, that can hold a candle to the productive powers that are unleashed by free market, free enterprise Capitalism.
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nclej.org/poverty-in-the-us.php

Census figures released in September 2013 confirm that record-high numbers of Americans are living in poverty. The latest data reveal:

One out of seven people in the USA are living in poverty.

In 2012, 46.5 million people were living in poverty in the United States—the largest number in the 54 years the Census has measured poverty.

The poverty rate (the percentage of all people in the United States who were poor) also remained at high levels: 15% for all Americans and 21.8% for children under age 18.

The United States Bureau of the Census measures poverty by comparing household income to the poverty threshold for a household of a given size. The poverty threshold is adjusted each year to take account of changes in the cost-of-living. The poverty threshold is not, however, representative of what a family actually needs for a decent living. For example, in 2012, the weighted average poverty threshold for a household of four was only $23,492.

Almost one out of sixteen people in the USA are living in deep poverty.

People with income 50% below the poverty line are commonly referred to as living in deep poverty; Census figures show that, in 2012, 6.6% of our population, or 20.4 million people, were living in deep poverty.

Our standard of living may be higher in here in America, but the poverty rates are still very large.

LOVE! ❤️
 
ishii said:
The changes that need to be made to our economy are fewer regulations and lower taxes.
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Most businesses don’t have any tax liability. You can’t get any lower than an effective rate of 0% so I’m not sure what you mean by lowering taxes. In terms of regulations, we need stronger ones not fewer ones. The West Fertilizer plant explosion and the Elk River chemical spill are proof of that.
ishii said:
I think Romney was on to something when he suggested that we need to drill more and explore more. If we had been doing that for the past few years instead of investing in failed green technology and keeping the energy supply low and expensive, we would have much better economic growth than the 0.1% that was reported for the last quarter.
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Oil is a global commodity and its prices are set globally. Drilling for more oil here won’t make it less expensive here. It will only succeed in destroying the environment and maintaining a status quo dependency on a finite and damaging resource.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Can you provide some data that supports this?
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"Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report released Tuesday.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue."

Link.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Code: 
Most businesses don't have any tax liability. You can't get any lower than an effective rate of 0% so I'm not sure what you mean by lowering taxes. In terms of regulations, we need stronger ones not fewer ones. The West Fertilizer plant explosion and the Elk River chemical spill are proof of that.
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US has one of the highest corporate tax rates among the industrialized nations. And small businesses suffer from the cost of high regulations - especially individuals trying to start small business. A taxi license in New York city cost $700,000. In Washington DC a license cost $125. I wonder which city has more taxis and cheaper fares? :hmmm:

But don’t take my word for it, here is the liberal’s liberal, George McGovern complaining about excessive regulation of business:

I learned by owning the Stratford Inn is that legislators and government regulators must more carefully consider the economic and management burdens we have been imposing on U.S. business. As an innkeeper, I wanted excellent safeguards against a fire. But I was startled to be told that our two-story structure, which had large sliding doors opening from every guest room to all-concrete decks, required us to meet fire regulations more appropriate to the Waldorf-Astoria. A costly automatic sprinkler system and new exit doors were items that helped sink the Stratford Inn – items I was convinced added little to the safety of our guests and employees. And a critical promotional campaign never got off the ground, partly because my manager was forced to concentrate for days at a time on needlessly complicated tax forms for both the IRS and the state of Connecticut.
Read more: inc.com/magazine/19931201/3809.html#ixzz31QVGk9Mh

And don’t get me going on ADA regulations - which recently required that every swimming pool with public access - this includes small hotels, motels, etc. - must have a device that can lower someone into the pool. And anyone who doesn’t have that will get a visit from the lawyers: the date which the businesses had to be compliant with the ADA law saw a flood of lawyers out to get the businesses which weren’t in compliance. Excessive, nonsense regulations are really just a way for lawyers to make money. And guess what? Lawyers are one of the Democrat party’s biggest fundraisers.
EmperorNapoleon said:
Oil is a global commodity and its prices are set globally. Drilling for more oil here won’t make it less expensive here. It will only succeed in destroying the environment and maintaining a status quo dependency on a finite and damaging resource.
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Lack of supply of oil here in the US - due to limits on drilling offshore as well as on government land have led to higher gas prices. I don’t think our economy is quite ready to be powered by windmills, EmperorNapoleon. And high energy prices lead to higher prices for consumer goods - which hurts people trying to make ends meet - like that person driving to his minimum wage job. I truly wish that liberals better understood (or cared about) the effect of their policies on the lower and middle classes struggling to make ends meet. Maybe we do need to increase the minimum wage so that people can afford the gas it takes to drive to work.

Ishii
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
"Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report released Tuesday.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue."

Link.
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Since the overwhelming majority of US businesses are Subchapter S Corporations, who’s profits are taxed on the owners personal return, this is a meaningless statistic
 
estesbob said:
Since the overwhelming majority of US businesses are Subchapter S Corporations, who’s profits are taxed on the owners personal return, this is a meaningless statistic
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True, about 61% of corporations are S corporations, and it we add in REITS, MLPs and other pass through entities, it is not to much of a stretch to say that two thirds of corporations don’t pay income tax, but the receivers of their incomes do pay tax.

%between%
 
stinkcat_14 said:
True, about 61% of corporations are S corporations, and it we add in REITS, MLPs and other pass through entities, it is not to much of a stretch to say that two thirds of corporations don’t pay income tax, but the receivers of their incomes do pay tax.

%between%
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And the fact many foreign corps don’t pay income tax is a rather meaningless figure also given they are given a credit for taxes they pay to their home country.

The truth is the profits of “C” corps are double taxed. Their income is taxed at the federal and state level and the distribution of that profit to the owners is taxed again at the federal and state level
 
ishii said:
US has one of the highest corporate tax rates among the industrialized nations.
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The average effective corporate tax rate among those who actually pay taxes is only 12.6% so, in actuality, we have one of the lowest corporate tax rates among industrialized nations.
ishii said:
And small businesses suffer from the cost of high regulations - especially individuals trying to start small business. A taxi license in New York city cost $700,000. In Washington DC a license cost $125. I wonder which city has more taxis and cheaper fares? :hmmm:
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New York has a completely different taxi system than Washington DC so you’re comparing apples and oranges. New York has a medallion system which allows taxi drivers to pick up customers off the street who hail them. If you don’t purchase a medallion then you have to operate as a regular car service (what people outside of New York know as taxis) which responds to pick-up requests over the phone. Fares are also calculated differently in DC than they are in New York so its hard to draw any comparison between the two.
ishii said:
Lack of supply of oil here in the US - due to limits on drilling offshore as well as on government land have led to higher gas prices.
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Oil is a global commodity so it doesn’t matter how many barrels the United States alone produces.
ishii said:
I don’t think our economy is quite ready to be powered by windmills, EmperorNapoleon. And high energy prices lead to higher prices for consumer goods - which hurts people trying to make ends meet - like that person driving to his minimum wage job. I truly wish that liberals better understood (or cared about) the effect of their policies on the lower and middle classes struggling to make ends meet. Maybe we do need to increase the minimum wage so that people can afford the gas it takes to drive to work.
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So pull the plug on oil, gas, coal, and utility subsidies and see how long the poor last on fossil fuels. While we’re at it, the taxpayers can stop paying to maintain the infrastructure of utility companies and we can see how long we all have electricity flowing to our homes. You’re not going to win by comparing alternative energy to a source of energy and delivery on life support courtesy of the taxpayers.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
The average effective corporate tax rate among those who actually pay taxes is only 12.6% so, in actuality, we have one of the lowest corporate tax rates among industrialized nations.
.
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Again you ignore the double taxation on the profits
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
The average effective corporate tax rate among those who actually pay taxes is only 12.6% so, in actuality, we have one of the lowest corporate tax rates among industrialized nations.
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I am not sure where you get your information, but from a GAO study they found:
The average U.S. effective tax rate on the domestic income of large
corporations with positive domestic income in 2004 was an estimated 25.2
percent.
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gao.gov/assets/280/279648.pdf
 
Robert_Sock said:
Why not create jobs where owners can afford to pay an increased minimum wage? What’s going to happen to the work that needs to be done at those 500,000 jobs? They have to get somebody to do it, unless they can automate or can afford to eliminate the jobs. Surly we can figure out a way to stamp out severe poverty.

LOVE! ❤️
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Higher pay means the owner makes less money. If you’re the owner, do you want a pay cut?

The illuminati want and need inflation. It’s that simple. That’s why they love unions. Higher cost of living means inflation. The illuminati know that they need inflation and the positive psychology associated with the ink on people’s paychecks getting larger. Then everyone with a larger pay check is happy as long as they remain ignorant of the economics of how the increased cost of goods ate up their larger pay check, keeping their buying power the same as before, but the psychology works. For a little while, anyway. They don’t honestly believe that people deserve more money. Inflation is just an economic and psychological necessity. “Just go with it.”
 
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