Does "Saved by Faith Alone" really make sense

[ralphinal]

You jump all over it when a Protestant says something that cannot be telegraphed word for word in the Bible, but when it come to the Immaculate Conception or the Assumption, we are just supposed to take it on faith huh?

Naturally What is the difference? I’ll give them to you if you give me mine.

Seriously, because we have all beaten all these topics to death, and you know it, what should stay: the Actual Protestant understanding of sola fide (which you posted) or sola scriptura. As the former cannot be proven using the later, one or the other is wrong.

 

[chworkman05]

The problem is that with out hearing there is no faith. Faith is worked through the spirit by hearing the word. Man has no free will in matters of faith. Our free will only exists in matter of law and the earthly realm. To say one would be saved by good works he ends up committing a mortal sin for as soon as one thinks it a good work it is a mortal sin. See “Thesiss 16 The Problem of Will” Martin Luther.(Catholics favorite heretic)
Faith is also given in the sacrament of baptism which we relive through daily repentence and contrition we drownd the old Adam.
This is brought by the work of the spirit not man.

 

[SIA]

Naturally What is the difference? I’ll give them to you if you give me mine.

Seriously, because we have all beaten all these topics to death, and you know it, what should stay: the Actual Protestant understanding of sola fide (which you posted) or sola scriptura. As the former cannot be proven using the later, one or the other is wrong.

Paul tells us that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. Are you saying that he mistakingly left something out there?

 

[ralphinal]

Paul tells us that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. Are you saying that he mistakingly left something out there?

Yes. What is faith?

 

[chworkman05]

Faith is instilled by the Holy Spirit. Through no reasoning of man. For it is impossible to belive without hearing the word and the spirit works throgh the word.

 

[ralphinal]

Faith is instilled by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, but what is faith?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Faith is a gift from God. I think the Catechism has the perfect definition of faith:

Para 166 Faith is a personal act - the free response of the human person to the initiative of God who reveals himself. But faith is not an isolated act. No one can believe alone, just as no one can live alone. You have not given yourself faith as you have not given yourself life. The believer has received faith from others and should hand it on to others. Our love for Jesus and for our neighbor impels us to speak to others about our faith. Each believer is thus a link in the great chain of believers. I cannot believe without being carried by the faith of others, and by my faith I help support others in the faith.

and

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.

 

[ralphinal]

Faith is a gift from God. I think the Catechism has the perfect definition of faith:

Para 166 Faith is a personal act - the free response of the human person to the initiative of God who reveals himself. But faith is not an isolated act. No one can believe alone, just as no one can live alone. You have not given yourself faith as you have not given yourself life. The believer has received faith from others and should hand it on to others. Our love for Jesus and for our neighbor impels us to speak to others about our faith. Each believer is thus a link in the great chain of believers. I cannot believe without being carried by the faith of others, and by my faith I help support others in the faith.

and

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.

Would any non-Catholics disagree?

 

[chworkman05]

Yes, but what is faith?

Lets start with what faith is not. Faith is not just the knowledge of history.
Faith that believes the history and the effects of history. Grace, righteousness, and forgiveness of sins throght Christ.

 

[Reformed]

Would any non-Catholics disagree?

I’m catholic, so I can’t answer. I believe in the Apostle’s Creed too.

 

[ralphinal]

Lets start with what faith is not. Faith is not just the knowledge of history.
Faith that believes the history and the effects of history. Grace, righteousness, and forgiveness of sins throght Christ.

Ok. Do you accept what manny posted?

 

[ralphinal]

I’m catholic, so I can’t answer. I believe in the Apostle’s Creed too.

Did I miss something?

 

[Reformed]

Originally Posted by ralphinal
Would any non-Catholics disagree?

Originally Posted by Reformed
I’m catholic, so I can’t answer. I believe in the Apostle’s Creed too.

Did I miss something?

from reformed.org

The Apostles’ Creed

The basic creed of Reformed churches, as most familiarly known, is called the Apostles’ Creed. It has received this title because of its great antiquity; it dates from very early times in the Church, a half century or so from the last writings of the New Testament.​

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell. [See Calvin]

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
*The word “catholic” refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[ralphinal]

from reformed.org

The Apostles’ Creed

The basic creed of Reformed churches, as most familiarly known, is called the Apostles’ Creed. It has received this title because of its great antiquity; it dates from very early times in the Church, a half century or so from the last writings of the New Testament.​

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell. [See Calvin]

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

---

Articles:
The Apostles’ Creed-- The Oldest Creed: by James Orr
Exposition of The Apostles’ Creed: by James Dodds, D.D.
*The word “catholic” refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

He descended into hell to see Calvin?

Now, you know good and well that you are not Catholic. You are Christian and no semantics will make you Catholic.

 

[chworkman05]

Ok. Do you accept what manny posted?

Yes I do but with these additions.
-The apostels creed
-The Nicene creed
-The Athanasian creed

 

[Reformed]

He descended into hell to see Calvin?

Now, you know good and well that you are not Catholic. You are Christian and no semantics will make you Catholic.

Ahh… Reformed.org and the Apostle’s Creed verifies that I am too catholic. I’m signing off to read the Gideon Bible in my hotel. And guess what, it only has 66 books. I always found a Bible with 66 books in my extensive travels, how about you?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Yes I do but with these additions.
-The apostels creed
-The Nicene creed
-The Athanasian creed

You could be a Pseudo Catholic.

The definition of faith came from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[ralphinal]

Yes I do but with these additions.
-The apostels creed
-The Nicene creed
-The Athanasian creed

Ok. I was looking for a conceptual understanding, but the concrete does help.

 

[ralphinal]

Ahh… Reformed.org and the Apostle’s Creed verifies that I am too catholic. I’m signing off to read the Gideon Bible in my hotel. And guess what, it only has 66 books. I always found a Bible with 66 books in my extensive travels, how about you?

Yes, but note there may be prostetutes in hotel bars, that don’t make them right either

Catholic does mean universal. However, as your theology does not agree with a majority of Christianity, current or historic, how universal is you?

Have a safe trip. I’ll pray for you:thumbsup:

 

[Reformed]

He descended into hell to see Calvin?

Now, you know good and well that you are not Catholic. You are Christian and no semantics will make you Catholic.

Acts 11:26

and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.

I’m glad my faith is historical.