R
rcwitness
Guest
What belief?
- Status
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
This one. Your claim.
R
rcwitness
Guest
1 Corinthians 6:15,16
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take Christ’s members and make them the members of a prostitute? Of course not! [Or] do you not know that anyone who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For “the two,” it says, “will become one flesh.”
A prostitute : the reference may be specifically to religious prostitution, an accepted part of pagan culture at Corinth and elsewhere; but the prostitute also serves as a symbol for any sexual relationship that conflicts with Christ’s claim over us individually. The two…will become one flesh : the text of Gn 2:24 is applied positively to human marriage in Matthew and Mark, and in Eph 5:29–32: love of husband and wife reflect the love of Christ for his church. The application of the text to union with a prostitute is jarring, for such a union is a parody, an antitype of marriage, which does conflict with Christ’s claim over us. This explains the horror expressed in 1 Cor 6:15b.
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take Christ’s members and make them the members of a prostitute? Of course not! [Or] do you not know that anyone who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For “the two,” it says, “will become one flesh.”
A prostitute : the reference may be specifically to religious prostitution, an accepted part of pagan culture at Corinth and elsewhere; but the prostitute also serves as a symbol for any sexual relationship that conflicts with Christ’s claim over us individually. The two…will become one flesh : the text of Gn 2:24 is applied positively to human marriage in Matthew and Mark, and in Eph 5:29–32: love of husband and wife reflect the love of Christ for his church. The application of the text to union with a prostitute is jarring, for such a union is a parody, an antitype of marriage, which does conflict with Christ’s claim over us. This explains the horror expressed in 1 Cor 6:15b.
Last edited:
G
Gorgias
Guest
See the underlined part. It’s not really a “one flesh union” – it’s a horrific parody of it – because if it were real, then it would conflict with Christ’s relationship with us.
So, no – it’s not that sex makes the union. Paul is expressing the horror of what would be, if it were true.
R
rcwitness
Guest
It’s not my claim, but rather Sacred Scripture. I certainly don’t know all of the Catechism or Canon law. But if it’s not there, it’s probably because they aren’t interested in relating what St Paul has.
He used the very Scripture establishing marriage to explain an immoral sexual intercourse! What more do you need?
It’s certainly not a holy marriage! It’s more like a sacrilege. It has nothing to do with grace, or Jesus at all. It’s a rejection of Him.
Yet, Paul describes what happens, and he connects it with marriage, for sure!
All sorts of things can occur in non Christian marriage… multiple spouses, prohibited relations, weakened flings to Las Vegas, etc.
He used the very Scripture establishing marriage to explain an immoral sexual intercourse! What more do you need?
It’s certainly not a holy marriage! It’s more like a sacrilege. It has nothing to do with grace, or Jesus at all. It’s a rejection of Him.
Yet, Paul describes what happens, and he connects it with marriage, for sure!
All sorts of things can occur in non Christian marriage… multiple spouses, prohibited relations, weakened flings to Las Vegas, etc.
R
rcwitness
Guest
I don’t think so. That’s changing what Paul is actually saying. He said,
Do you not know that he who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two shall become one.”
Its consent with sexual intercourse.
Do you not know that he who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two shall become one.”
Its consent with sexual intercourse.
Last edited:
G
Gorgias
Guest
No. Taking it the way you are is problematic. If a person is joined to a prostitute, in a “one flesh union”, then we have the situation Jesus describes as “what God has joined, let no man tear asunder.” In other words, if that were really true, then Christ could not make a claim on that person. Or, worse yet, we would have made a member of Christ’s body a prostitute.
Neither hold up. This is rhetoric, not doctrine. It asserts that we belong to Christ, and it asserts that we should not have illicit sex with prostitutes.
R
rcwitness
Guest
But that’s why Jesus says “except for porneia”
G
Gorgias
Guest
Which, in that context, referred to a marriage contracted invalidly (e.g., between relatives).
R
rcwitness
Guest
It is any invalid Christian marriage.
But it covers prostitution sex also, or sex with someone already married, etc…
But it covers prostitution sex also, or sex with someone already married, etc…
R
rcwitness
Guest
Where is it taught that a contract must be involved to establish an invalid marriage? That’s a silly notion.
Yet a contracted marriage is what a tribunal’s job is to discern if has impediments.
Yet a contracted marriage is what a tribunal’s job is to discern if has impediments.
G
Gorgias
Guest
Aah, but if it were invalid, then Paul wouldn’t be complaining about it, now, would he? He would just say “don’t have sex with prostitutes! I mean, it’s not like it makes a ‘one flesh union’, since it’s invalid, but don’t do it anyway!”
See? No matter which way you turn, your assertion fails to hold up to logic.
No. These are ‘fornication’ or ‘adultery’, not ‘one flesh union’ (i.e., ‘marriage’).
R
rcwitness
Guest
Last edited:
P
phil19034
Guest
Sex bonds you & makes you one flesh - at least temporarily -, but doesn’t make you sacramentally married nor does it permanently make you one flesh on it’s own. It doesn’t make you “naturally married” either.
HOWEVER, one could argue that sex make you BIOLOGICALLY married, as you do become biologically and chemically bonded - at least for a while.
Regardless, sex is truly a sacred act and should be treated as such.
I pray this helps a little.
God Bless
Last edited:
R
rcwitness
Guest
The only reason it might be temporary is if it’s broken through confession and forgiveness.
G
Gorgias
Guest
“A marriage contracted invalidly” doesn’t mean “a contract was involved in the invalid marriage”. It means there was an invalid attempt at marriage.
Paul’s talking to Christians. If it’s not valid for Christians, then he would say “meh… don’t worry about it, guys”.
P
phil19034
Guest
I meant to have “at least” in there… fixed it now
R
rcwitness
Guest
“A marriage contracted invalidly” doesn’t mean “a contract was involved in the invalid marriage”. It means there was an invalid attempt at marriage.
An invalid Christian Marriage doesn’t need to be an attempt at a Christian Marriage.
Hello! I’m saying sex with a prostitute is a valid marriage with the prostitute. Its NOT a Christian Marriage, but an anti-Christian marriage. It is broken through confession/forgiveness
Last edited:
R
rcwitness
Guest
Ok. But what is the meaning of “the two become one flesh” if not for marriage?
Paul uses it in the non-Christian negative in 1 Cor. 6
Paul uses it in the non-Christian negative in 1 Cor. 6
Last edited:
G
Gorgias
Guest
You’re talking about a ‘lack of form’ marriage, then. That’s only one case.
And I’m sure you can back up that assertion, from any of the documents of the Church that would have mentioned that sex with prostitutes = marriage?
Again, you’ve got a magisterial document that says that a valid (yet “anti-Christian”) marriage can be dissolved through confession? I’ll wait…
- Status