Does SSA = no vocation?

[ChristIsTheWay]

As a single person, there are plenty of things you can do for the Church. As far as I know, you can still serve in a variety lay ecclesial ministries. You could serve as a pastoral associate, parish life coordinator, hospital or prison chaplain, director of religious education, youth or young adult ministry, etc.

Check out the following: vocations.com/laymin/

 

[Dale_M]

That was from the Catholic News Service. I read the document in English when it came out and it seemed rather clear. I will try to find the doc online for a link.

I think I already posted a link to the document, in post #9. Here is the link again: zenit.org/article-14693?l=english

I think the key phrase in it is that a candidate must have affective maturity i.e. be past, or have mastered control over, sexual attraction to men and to women.

 

[TMC]

That was from the Catholic News Service. I read the document in English when it came out and it seemed rather clear. I will try to find the doc online for a link.

As to the bishops?

I don’t mean to be curt or dismissive, but looking at how the USCCB has handled Roman initiatives in the last 40 years, I don’t trust them a great deal with what seems to be a rather novel and nuanced interpretation of a rather clear document.

Looking at how widely they ignored Bl. John XXIIIs directive, that some are seeking wiggle room or plan to ignore this document - pretty much a re-iteration of the on-the-books policy - comes as no suprise.

So the journalists that work at the Catholic News Service are more authoritative than the Bishops of both the UK and the US?

You can read the Vatican documents yourself, they clearly say what the bishops and other posters here have said, that candidates must have affective maturity.

 

[augieboo]

I think I already posted a link to the document, in post #9. Here is the link again: zenit.org/article-14693?l=english

I think the key phrase in it is that a candidate must have affective maturity i.e. be past, or have mastered control over, sexual attraction to men and to women.

Here is the actual document, (rather than merely a news story referring to it), at the Vatican Website.

CONGREGATION FOR CATHOLIC EDUCATION – Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders

I had read it before, but not as carefully as I thought. It does seem to intend that men with SSA who cannot in some manner get rid of their SSA are not to be ordained.

Three comments:

[1] I think it goes a tad further than necessary. I think that a guy who has SSA but who does not embrace it, and who is willing to fight to live chastely, should not be excluded. But, nobody has died and appointed me to the Chair of Peter, so my opinion doesn’t (and shouldn’t) count.

1. The document seems to have just enough slightly vague language in it so that the U.S. bishops no doubt can and will find ways to water it down for U.S. consumption – as they do just about every teaching of the Lord’s Church.
2. Much of what is going on in screening of seminary applicants today is an over-reaction brought on by the U.S. bishops’ unwillingness to stand up like men and take responsibility for their roles in facilitating the molestation of children.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

So the journalists that work at the Catholic News Service are more authoritative than the Bishops of both the UK and the US?

Authoritative or accurate?

American bishops have been known to hijack Roman directives in times past. If you want to discuss that further, let’s start a new thread elsewhere.

 

[m134e5]

(Circular Letter of S. C. of the Sacraments, n. 16; Canon Law Digest, 4, p. 314).

Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers

Perhaps looking at a lay institute? If these standards have not been abrogated, it would seem priestly and religous life would be out as an option.

Notice the quote from Canon Law says SHOULD be- not “must be”, or “are”. This is telling bishops and vocations directors to be very careful about it. Homosexuality is not an impediment to ordination (I recommend reading the Canonical impediments to ordination- you will not find homosexuality in there).

To be a priest, a man must be emotionally mature and physically and psychologically healthy. He must have a clear understanding and healthy appreciation of masculinity and femininity, and feel comfortable in the masculine gender. Though this does not necessarily exclude men who struggle with homosexuality from the priesthood, it makes it difficult as homosexuals often have problems in at least one of the above areas (again, not necessarily).

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Notice the quote from Canon Law says SHOULD be- not “must be”, or “are”. This is telling bishops and vocations directors to be very careful about it. Homosexuality is not an impediment to ordination (I recommend reading the Canonical impediments to ordination- you will not find homosexuality in there).

To be a priest, a man must be emotionally mature and physically and psychologically healthy. He must have a clear understanding and healthy appreciation of masculinity and femininity, and feel comfortable in the masculine gender. Though this does not necessarily exclude men who struggle with homosexuality from the priesthood, it makes it difficult as homosexuals often have problems in at least one of the above areas (again, not necessarily).

We may have to agree to defer - this is beyond my competence and above my paygrade - to experts on this one. I am not really convinced by the argument of should not versus must not… But it really isn’t for me to figure out.

Bottom line, OP? Go see a vocations director and get your answers therefrom.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

As I understand it, there are three states in life, single, married and religious but there are only two real “vocations,” married life and religious life (both have sacramental graces attached to them!). Since a person with SSA is pretty much barred from married life and the same person, while not having canonical impediments from ordination (I checked), is not likely to be ordained, are people with SSA called to be “nothing?”

Aside from cleaning church bathrooms after a “code V” or “code D” (figure it out ) or otherwise unsavory tasks, what would such a horrific person such as myself (cursed with SSA) be counted worthy to do for the Kingdom?

Hi LNM…Our primary vocation and a Sacrament is our Baptism - all else flows from that. The priesthood and the married state are Sacraments, but the religious life is not it is a state of canonical consecration however. In living the single life one dedicates oneself to one’s Baptism, which is the primary state and vocation to which we are all called. One may make either canonical vows, or perhaps private vows…but if not, then our Baptism says it all. It is a call and vocation to follow Jesus and His Gospel.

I suffer Bipolar Disorder and am looked askance at once I " 'fess up and come out the closet " …I would throw a party if my parish would entrust even Code V and D, plus X, disaster bathrooms to me. Don’t loose heart…finding my role in the scheme of things and an entirely unofficial one with no title or letters after my name took me near on 20 years. I dont hide my mental illness and some say I would fare far better if I did, but it is no sin but an illnesss…despite the clouds that so often drift my way from Catholic quarters because of it. I am shifting at some point out of this parish and into a new one…I just may try not declaring my appalling and woeful “state”

I am unsure, my apologies, what SSA actually is…but invest in your Baptism and be assured The Lord does have a plan for you. Have you tried or thought about seeking spiritual direction? Religious Order priests or brothers are often very good and skilled spiritual directors. Sometimes you can locate spiritual directors through your diocesan offices. Keeping you in prayer …Blessings - Barb

 

[SerraSemper]

You are perfectly right in saying that there are three states in life. But I’d word it differently:

Holy Orders, Lay, and Consecrated

Holy Orders = Deacons, Priests, and Bishops
Consecrated = canonically, those who are Religious, Diocesan Hermits, Consecrated Virgins, and members of Secular Institutes
Lay = everyone called to be members of Christ’s Body by baptism and who do not belong to the clerical state

All the faithful start out as lay, and their vocation is to be holy in the state God is calling them to. Some are given the call to Orders, some to the consecrated life, some to marriage within the lay state.

Those who are single and are not in Orders or Consecrated life or married life have the call to great holiness just as everyone else. “Be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” What you do should be sanctified and in accordance with your talents. Not having a call to the priesthood or consecrated life or even marriage does not mean that a person is not special or unimportant. We need holy people, that is the primary vocation for everyone!

Serra

 

[Pug]

are people with SSA called to be “nothing?”

You are the light of the world. (I don’t mean you are Christ. I am quoting the bible.)

The laity has special callings or tasks.

898 "By reason of their special vocation it belongs to the laity to seek the kingdom of God by engaging in temporal affairs and directing them according to God’s will. . . . It pertains to them in a special way so to illuminate and order all temporal things with which they are closely associated that these may always be effected and grow according to Christ and maybe to the glory of the Creator and Redeemer."431

For example, you may have what it takes to be politically active in a special way. You said that you speak well.

863 The whole Church is apostolic, in that she remains, through the successors of St. Peter and the other apostles, in communion of faith and life with her origin: and in that she is “sent out” into the whole world. All members of the Church share in this mission, though in various ways. “The Christian vocation is, of its nature, a vocation to the apostolate as well.” Indeed, we call an apostolate “every activity of the Mystical Body” that aims "to spread the Kingdom of Christ over all the earth."377

All Christians (that means you) are to share in the mission of the Church.

You are not a “nothing”. That sounds like something the devil would dream up to try to temp you into thinking so as to distract you from the task at hand. I’m not saying it is, though. I mean, you could just be down right now. That is okay. But I just thought putting it that way could help you overcome it.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

You are the light of the world. (I don’t mean you are Christ. I am quoting the bible.)

The laity has special callings or tasks.
For example, you may have what it takes to be politically active in a special way. You said that you speak well.

All Christians (that means you) are to share in the mission of the Church.

You are not a “nothing”. That sounds like something the devil would dream up to try to temp you into thinking so as to distract you from the task at hand. I’m not saying it is, though. I mean, you could just be down right now. That is okay. But I just thought putting it that way could help you overcome it.

I had dreamed of becoming a nun since my early childhood…circumstances dictated otherwise rightly or wrongly and it was many years before I lost that longing and sense of loss and became comfortable and fulfillled in my current lifestyle in the single state. In fact came to realize that my whole life had been leading to this point and lifestyle. Mind you once I realized religious life was a closed door to me, I clung with an almost pig headed tenacity to the belief that God indeed did have a plan for my life and that I would come to know it. I just refused to believe otherwise. In fact the first step towards realizing this was to realize that the closed convent doors was not a limitation, rather God guiding me towards what He did want for my life which was not in the religious state, which is why He closed the doors to me. It is all a journey rather than an event.
I think it is probably quite correct that it just could be something Old Nick dreams up to attempt to distract you from God’s Will. For many years I experienced God’s Will in a quite negative sense…not this, not that, not there not here…until His Will began to unfold for me in a positive sense: this and also that and there and also here. It can be quite painful to experience God’s Will as being always seemingly negative.

Blessings and regards…Barb
Will be keeping the OPoster in prayer.

 

[m134e5]

That seems to fly in the face of Vatican directives.

I mean homosexuality is not, in a strict sense, an *impediment *to ordination (see the quote from Canon law below- you will not find homosexuality among the impediments).
the Code of Canon Law:

Can. 1040 Those bound by an impediment are to be barred from the reception of orders. An impediment may be simple; or it may be perpetual, in which case it is called an irregularity. No impediment is contracted which is not contained in the following canons.
Can. 1041 The following persons are irregular for the reception of orders:

1ƒ one who suffers from any form of insanity, or from any other psychological infirmity, because of which he is, after experts have been consulted, judged incapable of being able to fulfill the ministry;

2ƒ one who has committed the offence of apostasy, heresy or schism;

3ƒ one who has attempted marriage, even a civil marriage, either while himself prevented from entering marriage whether by an existing marriage bond or by a sacred order or by a public and perpetual vow of chastity, or with a woman who is validly married or is obliged by the same vow;

4ƒ one who has committed willful homicide, or one who has actually procured an abortion, and all who have positively cooperated;

5ƒ one who has gravely and maliciously mutilated himself or another, or who has attempted suicide;

6ƒ one who has carried out an act of order which is reserved to those in the order of the episcopate or priesthood, while himself either not possessing that order or being barred from its exercise by some canonical penalty, declared or imposed.

 

[m134e5]

That seems to fly in the face of Vatican directives.

Priests need to act like men. Many homosexual men are VERY effiminate, and that is distracting and men like that cannot be good models of a father, spouse, and Alter Christus. The effiminacy that is common among homosexual persons is not a good quality in candidates for the priesthood. This effiminacy is characterized by over-sensitivity, self-justification for wrongdoing (pride), and narcissism. These are undesirable qualities in men in general- they are especially undesirable, and should be intolerable, in clergy- men whose vocation is to conform their lives to Christ in a particularly deep way- offering themselves as priest and victim when they offer the Mass- as Christ did on the cross.

Many homosexual men, even those who are not effeminate, have deep emotional wounds related to their homosexuality. It would be a bad idea- for BOTH the man himself, and any of the faithful entrusted to his care- for these men to be ordained with these wounds still tormenting him. Satan uses whatever he can to attack the faithful- and he knows he would be especially effective if he were to make a priest fall. If a man has unresolved emotional wounds, and is ordained, he is in for a very dangerous spiritual battle that his enemy knows he is entering into as a wounded soldier.

This is all the document was saying- it was not forbidding anything that hadn’t been before. It was reiterating the need to use caution in who gets ordained.