Does the Bible have errors in it?

[dcdurel]

Led Zeppelin75:

That’s because people are getting more skeptical. Instead of just blind trust they now are seeing things the way they are. The Catholic Church has NOT done a good job trying to keep people in their religion. Their doctrines on mortal sins, hell, purgatory, ect are not for the everyday person to graspe. If you’re a Catholic, why not hope the Morman Church is correct, you’ll have a better chance of getting to heaven than in your present religion with mortal sins! http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gifMost Caholics actually believe they will go to hell when they die, and that’s not a very healthy way to live your one and only life.

That is incorrect. Mass attendence is down and people are leaving the Church because they aren’t being taught Church teachings. All we get is commentary on scripture. But Jesus told His apostles to Teach and Preach, not give commentary on scipture. The Pope commands the same thing. Unfortunately most of the hierarchy in this country have been misled into thinking that the homily should be only commentary on scripture. Thus Catholics learn nothing.
And the doctrines on hell, purgatory, mortal sin, the necessity of grace to overcome sin, the greatest source of grace being the Eucharist etc. have been Church teaching for 2000 years. They aren’t being taught today at mass, which is why people are leaving. The Baltimore Catechism has the basic Church teachings in it. It is excellent. Also the old Roman Catechism and the New Catechism.
And it has always been Church teaching that all the bible is inspired and thus inerrant, because this has been the apostolic Tradition. From the beginning the Church Fathers new there were apparent errors, but, since they knew, since these were only apparent errors, they would be worked out eventually. Most have by now. Father William Most wrote a book called “Free from all Error”, in which he defends the inerrancy of the bible.
And of course the Church doesn’t demand blind trust. There is evidence for the Church teachings in the writtings of the early Christians anywhere on the internet. For example, ALL early Christians in the first few centuries wrote that the consecrated bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. There was no disagreement, because that is the teaching the apostles handed down. All the basice teachings can be found in the writings of these early Fathers. And the bible shows the historical evidence that evidence that Jesus founded a Church and commanded that we believe all His Church teaches, otherwise we will be rejecting Him, will have lost our salvation, and will be condemned.
Of course, prayer is essential. The Rosary is highly recommended by the Church to be prayed unceasingly. Jesus will give many, many graces through praying the Rosary, especially the grace to overcome heresies. And prayer at Mass, Holy Communion and Eucharistic adoration is the greatest source of grace. Jesus has given me more help through the Eucharist than by any other means.
Thus, even Led Zepplin would find the grace to love Jesus more and not be so despondant if he prayed the Rosary daily and asked for God’s grace over and over during daily mass. We cannot become better on our own. It is impossible. This is Church dogma!! We need God’s grace through prayer and the sacraments. Eucharistic adoration is great. The intercession of Mary and the saints are great, esp, Padre Pio.

 

[Led_Zeppelin75]

“Now, give me a cite where Einstein PROVED God doesn’t exist.”

1. Einstein’s equations have proven that the universe does not need a creator.
2. Einstein’s equations shed total doubt on the myths of godly creation.
3. All of Einstein’s equations regarding this are PROVEN SCIENTIFIC FACTS.

“”"“And the bible shows the historical evidence that evidence that Jesus founded a Church and commanded that we believe all His Church teaches, otherwise we will be rejecting Him, will have lost our salvation, and will be condemned. “””"

And you believe this just because it’s in the bible? The bible is no more than fairy tales, some great poetry, ect, but upwards of about ten thousand lies. Would you believe the Talmud if it says you’re not human, but an animal (which it does say so?) Why would the bible have more credibility?

“”“And the doctrines on hell, purgatory, mortal sin, the necessity of grace to overcome sin, the greatest source of grace being the Eucharist etc. have been Church teaching for 2000 years.”""

And your point is?

“”"""“Thus, even Led Zepplin would find the grace to love Jesus more and not be so despondant if he prayed the Rosary daily and asked for God’s grace over and over during daily mass. We cannot become better on our own. It is impossible. This is Church dogma!! We need God’s grace through prayer and the sacraments. Eucharistic adoration is great. The intercession of Mary and the saints are great, esp, Padre Pio.”"""

Why would I waste my time with supersticious stuff if I’m already convisnced with my own lack of beliefs? I spent years of my life doing this prayer, and nothing happened. When you pray, you can become drowsy from reciteing words, and sometimes you think you can “hear god” or some nonsense like that.

Long ago when humans lived in small tribes, they looked to the world, they seen things such as the weather and said to themselves “Oh my! someone like ourselves but much more powerful must be doing this!” wallah! thats how god(s) were born. We now no what causes the weather. “Demon Possesion” was looked at as a real thing… we now know this is mental illness. The examples are endless. Your god is no different. Why does the earth need a creator? I see no elements of design whatsoever. earth quakes, violent storms, tornadoes, disease, ect, ect. Humans are constantly struggling to overcome the environment. Thanks to our enlarged brain we have managed to do rather well at it however humans have not been around very long, we are new comers to the earth. out of the 4.5 billion years of earth history we are only but a smude on its timeline.

Most of the world’s most educated people have debunked religion as man-made.

 

[vern_humphrey]

“Now, give me a cite where Einstein PROVED God doesn’t exist.”

1. Einstein’s equations have proven that the universe does not need a creator.
2. Einstein’s equations shed total doubt on the myths of godly creation.
3. All of Einstein’s equations regarding this are PROVEN SCIENTIFIC FACTS. .

Pull the other one – it’s got bells on it. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

You know and I know, Einstein’s equations have nothing to do with the question of whether God exists or not. If you disagree, I challenge you to take any one of them (or as many as you like) and demonstrate conclusively they prove God doesn’t exist.

"Why would I waste my time with supersticious stuff if I’m already convisnced with my own lack of beliefs? .

That’s my question. If you’re so sure God doesn’t exist, why are you here?

I don’t believe in Islam, Bahai, and so on – and I don’t bother visiting any forums devoted to those religions.

Why ARE you wasting your time in this forum?

 

[Ozanf]

"If two Gospels make contradictory assertions about the trial of Jesus, word-counting won’t salvage that. "

But They DON’T…
How do you know they make contradictory assertions?
Ýsn’t it possible that the contradictions exit in our understanding, not in the Bible which is always the case with alleged biblical contradictions…

There are indeed some copyist errors about numbers in Torah…But they DON’T affect any doctrine in the Bible and we can KNOW which the correct number is…

I recommend you to go and analyse alleged “contradictions” in Bible and I hope you will understand what we mean by saying “innerant”

tektonics.org/sab/sab.html (as I said before all of the claims have been answered here)

debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm

Also see:

www.biblequery.org

 

[patg]

RSiscoe:

What I am stating is that the Bible is true, not only in the area of faith and moral, but also in history, and science. That is what the Church teaches, and they is what I am saying. Those who teach the contrary have already been condemned by the Church.

Endlessly repeating this will not make it become true - there is no such teaching. Please read *Dei Verbum; *I will be happy to post the relevant sections if you can’t find them.

I assume you believe that the earth is flat and that the universe consists of only the earth and that the sky forms a half-bowl above the eath with heaven on the other side of the bowl. This three tiered universe is what is taught in the bible all the way through the assumption and ascension stories.

I assume you deny authors the right to use their talent to present truth in any form other than literal history - so much for poetry, allegory, fable, myth, or any other standard methods of writing?

If God had meant for every word in the gospels to be literal history, maybe God should have inspired someone to save an original copy for us! Since we have hundreds of copies, all different, all with changes and “corrections”, and none from earlier that a hundred years after Jesus’ death, it becomes a little difficult to accept that every word is accurate.

The bible is a lens and a sacrament. The idea that it is not literally accurate in every area (science, math, geography, etc.) does not mean that it is nothing special. It is a lens through which you see God. Many Christians think that being a Christian means “believing in the lens” in spite of rational reasons for not doing so. Christian faith began to mean “believing in the Christian tradition.” The lens became the object of belief rather than a way of seeing. Extend this to say the bible is a sacrament – a mediator of the sacred, a means by which God becomes present to us. The point is not to believe in the sacrament, but to let it do its work. Not simply a lens through which to see God, but also a sacrament – a means by which the Spirit of God continues to speak to us to this day. The phrase “Word of God” affirms that it is a means whereby the Spirit speaks to us.

Catholics do not “worship the bible” as you imply, rather, we use the bible as a guide in the worship of God.

 

[Led_Zeppelin75]

vern humphrey:

If you’re so sure God doesn’t exist, why are you here?

I don’t believe in Islam, Bahai, and so on – and I don’t bother visiting any forums devoted to those religions.

Why ARE you wasting your time in this forum?

To maybe open up some minds.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Led Zeppelin75:

To maybe open up some minds.

Why? You’re apparently surviving without an open mind.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Think about it – what IS your motivation? Why are you attracted to this forum?

 

[Led_Zeppelin75]

God did not create the universe, he created nothing, in order to create you must exist, this is something your god does not. This world does not need a creator and shows no signs of intelligent design.

The only reason you believe this to be so is because you have no understanding of large scale biologiy, chemistry, and physics. You look at a building, a watch, a plane. You say to yourself “Look at this! we created this! now look at the world! look at us! someone must have created us!” However you fail to realize that we create things, build things… based off of our understanding of NATURE, of the world, of the universe. Ofcourse things man-made will resemble nature, they are made of nature, from nature, and knowledge based upon nature.

EVERYTHING, including matter is energy. To put it in the simplest terms possible… everything comes down to action and reactions. All life evolved from a single celled ogranism into the various life forms we have today. Our consciousness ia a by product of our large brains, due to our brains being so large we have the ability to be conscious of the going ons around us. A wolf kills a deer, the deer loses its energy and is used to fuel the wolf. This is the way of life… energy shaping and molding, fusing around and with itself.

The universe is bigger and more vast than we can even comprehend… it is perhapse infinite. the likelyhood of other life being out there is very, very high. Physicists will tell you that there is no such thing as “nothing”. A subatomic particle can appear out of NOWHERE, without any purpouse or creator. Time as we know it did not come into being untill this universe was created, It is very possible that this universe has always existed in some form or another and most likely always will. It is also possible that this universe is one of many, many different universe… possibly an infinite number. If this is the case than its only logical to think life would evolve in some of them eventually.

I’m sure all of this is beyond your comprehension, however just because you’re ignorant of science does not make it untrue.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Led Zeppelin75:

God did not create the universe, he created nothing, in order to create you must exist, this is something your god does not. This world does not need a creator and shows no signs of intelligent design.

I’m sure all of this is beyond your comprehension, however just because you’re ignorant of science does not make it untrue.

You need help – you’ve gone far beyond simple debate and entered upon a fanatical compulision to attack other people’s beliefs.

 

[Dismas2004]

LZ75;

All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure

In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards

It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either. It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

I see you like Mark Twain; These are all some quotes from him. A small variety of his flavor!

I have some questions; Are you studing Physics or any other science? Did you get a B.A. from a Univeristy or College?

Why are you so sure in Einstien’s Theories? Could they be wrong?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Dismas2004:

LZ75;

I have some questions; Are you studing Physics or any other science? Did you get a B.A. from a Univeristy or College?

Why are you so sure in Einstien’s Theories? Could they be wrong?

Something just occurred to me – is it possible LZ75 is PRETENDING to be a fanatical athiest, and by making himself obnoxious, steer people the other way, toward Catholicism? (If he is, he’s doing a VERY good job!)

In answer to your last two questions (and LZ 75’s assertion that Einstien proved God doesn’t exist) recall that famous quote of his, “God does not play dice with the universe.” In one sentence, Einstien shows a belief in God AND that he (Einstien) can be wrong – since the Uncertainty Principle is now widely accepted.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[honorstudent]

“These books are held by the Church as sacred and canonical, not as having been composed by merely human labour and afterwards approved by her authority, nor merely because they contain revelation without error, but because, written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they have God for their author, and have been transmitted to the Church as such.” (Concil. Vatic., Sess. III, const. dogm, de Fide, cap. ii, in Denz., 1787)

As you can see from the above, when in reference to the truths of faith, the Bible is error free.

Peace, Josh.

 

[Led_Zeppelin75]

vern humphrey:

Something just occurred to me – is it possible LZ75 is PRETENDING to be a fanatical athiest, and by making himself obnoxious, steer people the other way, toward Catholicism? (If he is, he’s doing a VERY good job!)

In answer to your last two questions (and LZ 75’s assertion that Einstien proved God doesn’t exist) recall that famous quote of his, “God does not play dice with the universe.” In one sentence, Einstien shows a belief in God AND that he (Einstien) can be wrong – since the Uncertainty Principle is now widely accepted.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Uh no, you weren’t being serious were you?

Einstein does NOT believe in God. WHY DON’T I JUST QUOTE HIM:

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
(Albert Einstein / 1879-1955 / Letter, 24 March 1954)

“”""“I have some questions; Are you studing Physics or any other science? Did you get a B.A. from a Univeristy or College?”"""""

–I simply refuse to answer these “questions”. Why would it matter, I’m giving you stuff I’ve picked up off of scientific pages. You should research them yourself and not just assume I’m wrong.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Led Zeppelin75:

Einstein does NOT believe in God. WHY DON’T I JUST QUOTE HIM:

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
(Albert Einstein / 1879-1955 / Letter, 24 March 1954).

That’s correct – God, as Spinoza sees him is not a personal God. Yet, when discussing Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle, Einstein said, “God does not play dice with the universe.” This shows both his belief in God (albeit not a personal God) and that Einstein could be wrong.

Now, what is it about you that makes you so determined to attack the religious beliefs of others? Why do you waste your time here?

Look deep inside yourself for an answer.

 

[Led_Zeppelin75]

vern humphrey:

That’s correct – God, as Spinoza sees him is not a personal God. Yet, when discussing Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle, Einstein said, “God does not play dice with the universe.” This shows both his belief in God (albeit not a personal God) and that Einstein could be wrong.

Now, what is it about you that makes you so determined to attack the religious beliefs of others? Why do you waste your time here?

Look deep inside yourself for an answer.

What is the diffrence between a “personal god” and the kind you believe in? Could it be any clearer?

Why am I here? To challange religious people, obviously.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Led Zeppelin75:

What is the diffrence between a “personal god” and the kind you believe in? Could it be any clearer?

I recommend you read Spinoza – he explains it better than I.
Led Zeppelin75:

Why am I here? To challange religious people, obviously.

But what motivates you to to that?

Look deep inside yourself for an answer.

 

[Led_Zeppelin75]

vern humphrey:

I recommend you read Spinoza – he explains it better than I.

But what motivates you to to that?

Look deep inside yourself for an answer.

It dosen’t matter what Spinoza says, Einstein is clear with his religious beliefs.

Most people, since youth, were brainwashed with the Christian religion. It can help people to get over those.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Led Zeppelin75:

It dosen’t matter what Spinoza says, Einstein is clear with his religious beliefs.

Spinoza is the religious philosopher Einstein most closely agreed with. You will note Einstein talks about not accepting a “personal God,” but doesn’t say he rejects God at all.
Led Zeppelin75:

Most people, since youth, were brainwashed with the Christian religion. It can help people to get over those.

And God appointed you to help them? http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ask yourself sincerely, why are you here? What drives you to this Catholic forum?

 

[Led_Zeppelin75]

vern humphrey:

Spinoza is the religious philosopher Einstein most closely agreed with. You will note Einstein talks about not accepting a “personal God,” but doesn’t say he rejects God at all.

And God appointed you to help them? http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ask yourself sincerely, why are you here? What drives you to this Catholic forum?

It dosen’t matter what Spinoza said. If Einstein believed in God he would have said something like “I don’t belive in a personal God, but I do believe in a God”, which also makes little sense.

“And God appointed you to help them?”

lol… It what’s better for the person, it’s a good deed.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Led Zeppelin75:

It dosen’t matter what Spinoza said. If Einstein believed in God he would have said something like “I don’t belive in a personal God, but I do believe in a God”, which also makes little sense.

No doubt had he submitted his letter to you before allowing it to be published, you would have given him some hints about how he could have expressed himself better.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
Led Zeppelin75:

It “And God appointed you to help them?”

lol… It what’s better for the person, it’s a good deed.

So why YOU? And why a Catholic forum?