Does the Big Bang Suggest a Creator God?

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The beauty of science is it’s not a deity, and Darwin is so last century 🙂

Sarah x 🙂
It is for a lot of Scientists and others seeking to worship the natural. We all worship something. Some of us just don’t worship in Churches. We can worship in bars, stadiums, car shows, labratories etc. It all depends on what You call GOD.
 
May I suggest you hang out here long enough to read posts where science conquers all? May I suggest the following:

amazon.com/Singularity-Near-Humans-Transcend-Biology/dp/0143037889

Nope. Science has become the replacement of God for too many. And it answers all the other problems with neuroscience. Don’t you know we’re just bags of chemicals that respond to outside stimuli? Kind of like flatworms but with more appendages and the ability to drive.

I’m not familiar with Dr. John Lennox but I will read “Fides et Ratio.”

Best,
Ed
I agree… science has become a replacement God. It has some inklings into neuroscience, and yes indeed, we are bags of chemicals. However, there is still a God interested in these bags of chemicals. After all… he made them (us).

Is there a waiting period before a new person can comment? I apologize is if there is.

PS - I’d also suggest Dr. Peter Kreeft.
 
It can’t be a matter of belief. Its a matter of knowledge. The Universe is WAAAAYYYYY too complex and big to have just erupted on its own, and be able to form life, especially like Our human bodies as complex as they are. Of course, humans are just one of the MAAAANNNYYY complex things on this planet. Now, a Big Bang jsut randomly happening and creating all this around me is far too random and not likely, according to the odds of Quantum Physics.
Absolutely agreed.
 
I agree… science has become a replacement God. It has some inklings into neuroscience, and yes indeed, we are bags of chemicals. However, there is still a God interested in these bags of chemicals. After all… he made them (us).

Is there a waiting period before a new person can comment? I apologize is if there is.

PS - I’d also suggest Dr. Peter Kreeft.
I think you’ll soon find a series of ‘pattern responses’ here to the same questions. The wording may differ slightly but the message is the same: God? Pfft! Show me God.

Back to the OP. Yes, something can’t come from nothing, but that won’t stop those who claim to know, or confuse the faithful.

Dr. Peter Kreeft is a good suggestion, but the absolute tonnage of pagan thought here is well, a problem. On another forum where I’m a moderator, much time and effort goes into disrespecting the Church to outright demanding that the Church has no say in anything. You may have missed the memo, but we live in the Secular States of America now.

Thank you for your politeness.

Ed
 
atheistgirl

**The beauty of science is it’s not a deity, and Darwin is so last century **

Really? Tell that to your fellow atheist, Richard Dawkins, who swears by Darwin… 😃
 
Does the Big Bang Suggest a Creator God?
If by Creator God you mean a sentient being, a deity, then no, not to me it doesn’t.
Cognitive dissonance results when I try to imagine an invisible immaterial being producing/creating matter.
 
Does the Big Bang Suggest a Creator God?
If by Creator God you mean a sentient being, a deity, then no, not to me it doesn’t.
I don’t see how immaterial & sentience can go together, nor how something immaterial can produce (create) matter. That just seems so made up.
It all depends on what You call GOD.
👍 If all the word “god” meant was “initial force/energy” or “gravitational singularity” then sure! the Big Bang suggests that. 😃
 
If by Creator God you mean a sentient being, a deity, then no, not to me it doesn’t.
I don’t see how immaterial & sentience can go together, nor how something immaterial can produce (create) matter. That just seems so made up.

👍 If all the word “god” meant was “initial force/energy” or “gravitational singularity” then sure! the Big Bang suggests that. 😃
Is “sentience” material? Are truth, reason, consciousness, feelings, sensations material? Sure, thoughts are accompanied by observable physical neurological events, but thoughts aren’t material. It’s those that accompany them that are material (neurotransmitters, neuronal impulses etc.)
 
It can’t be a matter of belief. Its a matter of knowledge. The Universe is WAAAAYYYYY too complex and big to have just erupted on its own, and be able to form life, especially like Our human bodies as complex as they are. Of course, humans are just one of the MAAAANNNYYY complex things on this planet. Now, a Big Bang jsut randomly happening and creating all this around me is far too random and not likely, according to the odds of Quantum Physics.
Actually, it is possible that the universe is really quite simple - if superstring theory holds.

Consider, what is randomness but chaos? The very same thing Genesis says God created order from.
 
There are no scientific arguments for the existence of God, only logical arguments made through the use of reason.

For that matter, science cannot say anything concerning God, because science is a study of the physical world and cannot speak for anything outside this world.
Science could produce evidence for God if God wanted it to. All He’d have to do is put a message on the dark side of the moon, etch a message into a glass test tube whenever two particular chemicals were mixed, etc.

Of course, it would seem that since we have no such evidence, God does not want to be discoverered through scientific means.
 
Of course it does not…something from nothing is absurd. Did I come across that I disagreed?

Actually, I was saying that trying to picture an uncaused or unexplained reality is highly difficult if not impossible…not just unobserved in our universe
Just because we can’t imagine it doesn’t make it logically impossible. We can’t imagine being God and answering the prayers of all people in the world from all times at once while simultaneously holding every material and spiritual entity in existence, but that’s exactly what he does.
 
zro x

**Of course, it would seem that since we have no such evidence, God does not want to be discoverered through scientific means. **

Yet science, by discovering so many apparently designed elements of the universe, can infer that there is a Designer behind it all. The only scientists who refuse to admit this are the atheists. Even the Big Bang for atheists is a perplexing moment in the history of the universe, though for theists it seems perfectly consistent with the theology of a created universe.

Werner Heisenberg: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”
 
St. Thomas has given arguments showing the necessity of God’s most intimate presence and activity in his creation. - by inductive reasoning. The following is from S.T. Part 1, Ques 104, Art. 1, starting from " On the other hand " :

On the contrary, It is written (Hebrews 1:3): “Upholding all things by the word of His power.”

I answer that, Both reason and faith bind us to say that creatures are kept in being by God. To make this clear, we must consider that a thing is preserved by another in two ways.

First, indirectly, and accidentally; thus a person is said to preserve anything by removing the cause of its corruption, as a man may be said to preserve a child, whom he guards from falling into the fire. In this way God preserves some things, but not all, for there are some things of such a nature that nothing can corrupt them, so that it is not necessary to keep them from corruption.

Secondly, a thing is said to preserve another ‘per se’ and directly, namely, when what is preserved depends on the preserver in such a way that it cannot exist without it. In this manner all creatures need to be preserved by God. For the being of every creature depends on God, so that not for a moment could it subsist, but would fall into nothingness were it not kept in being by the operation of the Divine power, as Gregory says (Moral. xvi).

This is made clear as follows: Every effect depends on its cause, so far as it is its cause. But we must observe that an agent may be the cause of the “becoming” of its effect, but not directly of its “being.” This may be seen both in artificial and in natural beings: for the builder causes the house in its “becoming,” but he is not the direct cause of its “being.” For it is clear that the “being” of the house is a result of its form, which consists in the putting together and arrangement of the materials, and results from the natural qualities of certain things. Thus a cook dresses the food by applying the natural activity of fire; thus a builder constructs a house, by making use of cement, stones, and wood which are able to be put together in a certain order and to preserve it. Therefore the “being” of a house depends on the nature of these materials, just as its “becoming” depends on the action of the builder. The same principle applies to natural things. For if an agent is not the cause of a form as such, neither will it be directly the cause of “being” which results from that form; but it will be the cause of the effect, in its “becoming” only.

Now it is clear that of two things in the same species one cannot directly cause the other’s form as such, since it would then be the cause of its own form, which is essentially the same as the form of the other; but it can be the cause of this form for as much as it is in matter–in other words, it may be the cause that “this matter” receives “this form.” And this is to be the cause of “becoming,” as when man begets man, and fire causes fire. Thus whenever a natural effect is such that it has an aptitude to receive from its active cause an impression specifically the same as in that active cause, then the “becoming” of the effect, but not its “being,” depends on the agent.

Sometimes, however, the effect has not this aptitude to receive the impression of its cause, in the same way as it exists in the agent: as may be seen clearly in all agents which do not produce an effect of the same species as themselves: thus the heavenly bodies cause the generation of inferior bodies which differ from them in species. Such an agent can be the cause of a form as such, and not merely as existing in this matter, consequently it is not merely the cause of “becoming” but also the cause of “being.”

Therefore as the becoming of a thing cannot continue when that action of the agent ceases which causes the “becoming” of the effect: so neither can the “being” of a thing continue after that action of the agent has ceased, which is the cause of the effect not only in “becoming” but also in “being.” This is why hot water retains heat after the cessation of the fire’s action; while, on the contrary, the air does not continue to be lit up, even for a moment, when the sun ceases to act upon it, because water is a matter susceptive of the fire’s heat in the same way as it exists in the fire. Wherefore if it were to be reduced to the perfect form of fire, it would retain that form always; whereas if it has the form of fire imperfectly and inchoately, the heat will remain for a time only, by reason of the imperfect participation of the principle of heat. On the other hand, air is not of such a nature as to receive light in the same way as it exists in the sun, which is the principle of light. Therefore, since it has not root in the air, the light ceases with the action of the sun.

Now every creature may be compared to God, as the air is to the sun which enlightens it. For as the sun possesses light by its nature, and as the air is enlightened by sharing the sun’s nature; so God alone is Being in virtue of His own Essence, since His Essence is His existence; whereas every creature has being by participation, so that its essence is not its existence. Therefore, as Augustine says (Gen. ad lit. iv, 12): “If the ruling power of God were withdrawn from His creatures, their nature would at once cease, and all nature would collapse.” In the same work (Gen. ad lit. viii, 12) he says: “As the air becomes light by the presence of the sun, so is man enlightened by the presence of God, and in His absence returns at once to darkness.”

All of Q’s 104 & 105 deserve to be read.

Of course we expect the opposition to immediately reject anything which tends to threaten their cherished BELIEFS, and that is only possible basis for their insane assertions. But what is the basis for their BELIEFS, at least we have a BOOK and we can show a Divine Revelation. What can they offer - nothing. 👍
 
“Concerning cosmological evolution, the Church has infallibly defined that the universe was specially created out of nothing. Vatican I solemnly defined that everyone must “confess the world and all things which are contained in it, both spiritual and material, as regards their whole substance, have been produced by God from nothing” (Canons on God the Creator of All Things, canon 5).”

Source: Catholic Answers library

Peace,
Ed
Yes, and it is in the Catechism, if people would just read it. 🙂
 
Human belief is human belief, no way to go around it. Dawkins says that because matter with antimatter produces nothing, voila, nothing exploded and from it there is the entire material world.
I can understand that if you combine matter with antimatter there is a result that can’t be perceived in a “material” experiment, but “nothing exploded” that is really nonsense.
Yes, that is the big thing. They have no proofs, NONE. At least we have a book and have made a very solid claim to a Divine Revelation, and some of the greatest minds the world has known, perhaps the greatest, ST. Thomas, Augustine and on and on have contributed powerful a posteriori arguments as proofs. They have NOTHING except stubborn pride and intellectual arrogance, nothing but wishful thinking. We have them lurking around this forum all the time using us a platform for their propaganda ( why allow it ! ). :tiphat:
 
Roger Penrose doesn’t debunk Hawking’s views of M-theory, at least not in the article you showed. He doesn’t even claim that he can debunk it! He only mentions that M-theory isn’t a theory in the scientific sense, and that presenting it as a scientific theory can be misleading, which is true. However, it can still be a plausible* hypothesis *for how the universe came into existence.
Nothing that contradicts Divine Revelation is " plausible. " I think you need to reread the comments from INC News. Day dreams are hardly plausible.

Universe has not been shown to “create itself from nothing”.

Asked whether science shows that the universe could “create itself from nothing” as claimed in the book, Penrose was strong in his condemnation of the ‘string’ theory that lies behind Hawking’s statement: “It’s certainly not doing it yet. I think the book suffers rather more strongly than many. It’s not an uncommon thing in popular descriptions of science to latch onto an idea, particularly things to do with string theory, which have absolutely no support from observation. They are just nice ideas.” He added that such ideas are "“very far from any testability. They are hardly science.”

As a former colleague who worked closely alongside Hawking in developing gravitational singularity theorems, Penrose is perhaps the most high profile scientist yet to dismiss Hawking’s views.

“Multi-verse” has not superseded God

He also responded to the so-called “multi-verse” hypothesis that Hawking’s theory also posits. Christians, including Professor McGrath, have pointed towards the fact that our universe is incredibly “fine-tuned” for life to come into existence, thus providing evidence of a transcendent designer. Hawking’s “multi-verse” hypothesis is a form of the ‘anthropic principle’: since ours is one in an array of universes, we inevitably only observe a universe with the correct ‘settings’ that support conscious life.

Responding to the ‘multi-verse’ hypothesis, Penrose, a Distinguished Supporter of the British Humanist Association who describes himself as having “no religious beliefs,” said: “Its overused, and this is a place where it overused. It’s an excuse for not having a good theory.”

Premier presenter Justin Brierley said: “What’s interesting is that Penrose’s criticisms of Hawking are not driven by any faith position. Instead he simply recognises that the science does not justify making statements about God’s non-existence, which is a much more honest position than other well-known scientists, such as Dawkins, who want to equate science with atheism.”

👍
 
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