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Fairwinds
Guest
every country has a right to self defense. so the arms trade is not inherently evil.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Virtually every argument about gun control is made from an urban point of view. If one lives in the countryside, the issues are different because there are threats that are different. I don’t know what it’s like to live in the countryside in, say, England. But in the U.S. it’s still pretty wild; getting wilder in fact. There are lots of dangerous animals in a good part of the rural U.S., and those who live in those areas know they’re proliferating. Ever wonder why the mascot of the University of Arkansas is a razorback? Google “razorback” and see what you think about running into one.
There are also significant numbers of pest animals that can pose a hazard to crops, livestock and people. Armadillos come immediately to mind in that regard.
There are also significant numbers of pest animals that can pose a hazard to crops, livestock and people. Armadillos come immediately to mind in that regard.
po18guy
Well-known member
I was appealing to the sensibilities of the “We want to make sure that this can never happen again” crowd. Yet, those numbers are compelling on one level - considering the number of shootings that do not occur.
Norway. Look at that mess. Human anomalies occur everywhere. How safe do we want to be? And, safe from what?
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LongingSoul
Guest
Australia has a pretty wild rural scene also but the gun controls weren’t targeting these sorts of need and while the checks and balances of owning a gun are stricter, guns weren’t outright banned for all.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I don’t know what Australia permitted or allowed, but the very best varmint gun I have ever seen is an AR-15, which is the #1 gun this administration wanted to ban.
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Beryllos
Guest
When a hammer is the only tool in your kit, every problem looks like a nail. That could explain why you need an AR-15 to shoot varmints. Then why does one need the high-capacity magazine?
*]So many varmints, there is no time to reload
*]Aim is so bad, you need the whole clip for one squirrel
*]Bragging rights
*]???
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Different guns are better for different things. They’re not all hammers.
An AR-15 is good for the following reasons.
Lightweight. Doesn’t wear you out to carry it for a long time.
Easier to manage in brush than almost anything.
When you carry it by the handle, it automatically points to the ground.
Ergonomically well-designed.
Good striking power for the load.
Not an overload for most things.
Good iron sights if that’s what you’re using.
I’m not sure what the optimal magazine capacity would be, but if you ever tried to hit an armadillo on the run, you would understand why capacity matters. If you ever ran into a pack of feral dogs, you would understand even more. One does not always have the opportunity to take pefect aim.
For water moccasins, I would much prefer a .410 shotgun, but if all I had at hand was a rifle, capacity could matter if it was on the move.
And no, I never had to shoot more than once to hit a squirrel. They’re easy targets.
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Brendan
Guest
The magazine is distinct from the firearm. It does not follow logically that an AR-15 is required to use a large magazine. You can use the larger magazines at the range to practice with, but switch off to a 5 round mag for hunting or varmint control.
The Ar-15 native round ( .223 Remington) was originally developed as a varmint round. It has accurate ballistics without the overkill of a deer hunting round, such as the .30-30 or the .30-06
The platform itself can be fitted with illumination which is useful for nocturnal pests such as raccoons, and can then switch over to dot sights for evening pests, such as coyote or fox.
One other factor is that it’s versatility extents to using the same gun to hunt larger game. The lower can be matched to a different upper receiver and barrel. So the same gun can shoot different caliber rounds. The same gun that shot .223 at raccoons one night, can be loaded with .30-30 and used against deer the following morning. All the while using a 5 round magazine.
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Holly3278
Guest
You are right but I would personally say that gun control is also a moral issue because we are talking about trying to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and would-be criminals who could be violent and end up murdering people like what happened at Sandy Hook in Newtown Connecticut.
You are right that the arms trade is not inherently evil. However, I think that what the Catechism is talking about here is trading arms with nations that are known to abuse civil rights such as Syria.
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Brendan
Guest
The difference is that pornography is to be universally prohibited, no one should have it.
Weapons of any type are to be restricted from those who use them unjustly, but others are morally obligated to bear them.
po18guy
Well-known member
At least in the US, either guns control the government, or the government controls guns. With the current (and increasing) persecution of the Church, and the alarming abuse of power scandals of the current US government, I know which has the clear potential for more damage.
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Annie39
Guest
Holly, if your child was attending an elementary school which has been targeted by a copycat killer would you hope that someone on the school grounds had a weapon to defend your child, his classmates and his teachers? If so, what weapon would you hope that someone had? Do you think a knife would do against a gunman or maybe a chair? As for me, I would hope that someone had a gun.
Annie
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Annie39
Guest
Full discloser, I am very much against gun control. As with any opinion, I am always open to changing my mind if I can be convinced that I’m in error.
You write: I think the real issue to address even before wasting time scouring statistics, is what are the basic beliefs and principles that support gun ownership for urban safety. Are people safer with a gun under their bed or is this a false sense of security?
Me: I agree with the above statement. I have reasons for my beliefs but they are very much anecdotal. Recently the home of a 72 year old woman and her wheelchair bound 80 something husband was broken into. The thug was in his twenties I think; at least he was not yet 35 I could tell from his picture. He lived in a half-way house on her street. I’m thinking that he had observed them for a while. I’m betting he thought that they would be easy pickin’s. Enter the .357 magnum snub nosed revolver in the hands of the defenseless seasoned citizen. She yelled at the guy not to come in but when he kept coming she shot at him. He ended up apologizing and asking her not to shoot again. Also, around the time of the Sandy Hook incident a gunman entered a mall and began shooting. A male shopper who was packing drew his gun on the guy. The guy stopped shooting and committed suicide. No more deaths that day. Not long ago a young girl, I think pre-teen was alone when a man broke into her house. She called her mom and the mom told her to get the gun and get in a closet. The man found her in the closet and proceeded to open the door. The girl shot him. What do you suppose that man would have done to that girl if she did not have that gun? Of course anecdotal evidence is not enough but I think it is a bit better than discussing Nigerian scammers and marijuana. But thanks for the Marijuana information I will add it to my arsenal of the reason that I’m against its use. If you think that it’s okay to keep guns to protect you and yours from four legged varmints I don’t know why you call it paranoia if one wants to keep guns to protect against the two legged variety. I as nearly kidnapped once and recently a man attempted to get into my car while I was sitting in it in a parking lot waiting for my husband. Speaking of my husband. A few years ago he had to discipline a man at work who he was supervising. That man attempted to follow him home. He (hubby) had to wind in and out of streets until he was able to “lose” him. Stuff happens.
I am a member of the seasoned citizen crowd myself. We have two kinds of defenses in our house. We have a security system with several cameras around our house. We also have guns. If someone tries to break in we plan to warn him like that seasoned citizen lady did and believe me if he foolishly keeps coming he will get shot at. Both my husband and I can handle the guns. We practice at a local firing range.
It is frustratingly difficult to find out how much gun related crime there is in Brisbane. All I can determine is that there indeed is. As an example of crime in cities in the US that has strict gun control, check out the crime in Chicago Illinois. Or check out another place. The District of Columbia (Washington DC).
Another city to check out is the most pro-gun low-crime city in the US found here godfatherpolitics.com/9000/the-most-pro-gun-low-crime-city-in-the-united-states/
Annie
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Holly3278
Guest
Yeah I think I would prefer that there be a trained security guard with a gun at the school to defend the children from a copycat killer. But a trained security guard in all likelihood is not going to be a criminal. I mean, don’t security guards have to pass a background check before they can take the job?
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Annie39
Guest
I have another idea. I think several teachers in each school should conceal carry. Teachers hopefully have already passed a background check. People in all walks of life already have guns. They may hunt or they may be ex-military or just enjoy target shooting at a range. I don’t of course think that any teacher should be required to carry a gun but volunteers would probably be found among the teachers. If there is a teacher who would volunteer but does not have the skills, I think that the school district should consider paying for the firearms instructions if the teacher is willing to purchase the gun. Imagine what a discouragement it would be to a would-be killer if he saw a sign outside a school stating “this is not a gun free zone”.
I realize how unpopular what I have written is but I believe it would work.
Annie
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Holly3278
Guest
Yeah that would be another option but I would make sure that each every one of those teachers had a thorough background check and also thorough training on gun handling and gun safety.
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Brendan
Guest
If they are teaching in a school, the background check should be done regardless of their armed status.
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LongingSoul
Guest
From my point of view, it’s not a situation that will be resolved with anecdotal evidence at all. There definitely are situations that happen in my city where illegally obtained guns are used in crime. Mostly these involve lads in their late teens and early twenties and bikie gangs. Those are the groups that embody the gun mentality.
guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
The US at large does have an inordinately high number of gun related crimes and it seems hardly a week goes by that there isn’t stories of a massacre, but it begs the question… which comes first, the chicken or the egg. Does the large number of guns in the community result in the larger number of gun crimes which require greater numbers of guns to combat, making more guns available to criminals to use in crime?
The massacre that Australia experienced in 96 at Port Arthur, was the point at which the government said no more guns, instead of saying we need more guns. Time seems to have proven it the right step to take. We haven’t had another mass killing here in the subsequent 17 years. It was a courageous step for the government to take at that time, but the majority of Australians regard it as one of the best things for our country. It didn’t just remove guns from the community, it burst the gun mentality bubble that effectively has a nation living in a state of cold war mistrust and fear.
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Annie39
Guest
I did a little more research that I hope to get time to post it. However where do thosnin Au get the illeagal guns?
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LongingSoul
Guest
Guns aren’t banned altogether. One can get a license as a Primary producer, sporting or recreational shooter or for other commercially related purposes. So guns are around and can be obtained illegally. If you hear of a gun holdup it’s generally described as a shawn off shotgun.
Police always advise after every crime report, not to play hero in these situations. Normally, the gun is being used to intimidate and subdue a victim… not to kill them and life is more important than goods.
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