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buffalo
Guest
No - Giglamesh is a corrupted version of the Biblical account.
Does the Catholic Church recognize the story of Noah and the flood as being literally true?
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SHW
Guest
No, not sectarian liberalism. Also, some “learned” Catholic scholars do not necessarily “know” the truth nor teach the truth. And, some of them may be Catholic in name only.
I attended a lecture at our church about evolution by a “learned Catholic” priest “scholar” from the Vatican Observatory. At the end, he actually said that God might be a “she.” Apparently, either he did not know or else he did not believe that Jesus told us to call upon His Father. Jesus did not want us to call His Father “mother.” Matthew 6:9
I choose to believe in the flood because I have faith in God’s Word.
Genesis 9:28
28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.
Genesis 11:10
This is the genealogy of Shem: Shem was one hundred years old, and begot Arphaxad two years after the flood.
2 Peter 2:4-8
or if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not** spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;** 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)—
Either a person chooses to believe in the the flood or he doesn’t. I do believe.
exchangedlife.com/Sermons/gen/the_flood.shtml
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SHW
Guest
Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich claims that she saw them in her vision of Paradise (1st heaven) where Enoch and Elijah are waiting in order to return to earth (when the Antichrist is here.) She also says that they still exist (inferior to the ones in Paradise) far up on the Mountain of the Prophets. This is possibly Mt. Horeb (also called Mt. Sinai by some Rabbis) since the prophets talked to God there.
Unicorns:
propheciesii.blogspot.com/
Mt. Horeb and Mt. Sinai:
jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=817&letter=S&search=horeb
So, perhaps there are unicorns that actually exist outside of her visions.
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juliamajor
Guest
Since the Atrahasis predates both Gilgamesh and the biblical account and since in the ANE Sumer first developed a writing system-logic must say the Biblical account is derived from the Atrahasis via Gilgamesh.Not the other way around.
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donsnow
Guest
Since science is not that reliable about history and also has a conflict of interest in finding evidence to support what it’s against, I think science not a reliable measure for belief in the flood, which I think happened. Also, in the early '60’s I read a book titled, Archaeology and the Bible, in which the author presented evidence of a global wide level of sediment dated to 3,500BC. Which surprises me, because a chronology of Genesis shows the flood occurred circa 2,500BC. Anyway, all the different flood traditions from many countries satisfy me that there was a global flood.
Also, I’ve heard that the legend of unicorns started with the first description of a rhinoceros. There’s two kinds of rhinoceros, one with one horn on its nose (unicorn) and the other with two horns on its nose, both of which still exist to this day. So, there’s some evidence for that, for you
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Also, I’ve heard that the legend of unicorns started with the first description of a rhinoceros. There’s two kinds of rhinoceros, one with one horn on its nose (unicorn) and the other with two horns on its nose, both of which still exist to this day. So, there’s some evidence for that, for you
.
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buffalo
Guest
Moses compiled Genesis relying on toledoths. These were the original accounts. They were written on tablets.
The claim that Gilgamesh came before the Biblical account doesn’t even make sense when one accounts for the distortions in the Epic. They are pretty clear to see.
Compare them to the Biblical accounts. You will find the Biblical ones historically true.
gods fighting amongst themselves - geeshhhhhh.
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buffalo
Guest
Noah’s Ark hidden in the ancient Chinese characters
Legends from ancient China describe a global catastrophic
flood so vast that the waters reached the
sun and covered the mountains, drowning all the
land-dwelling creatures, including mankind. In the
midst of this global calamity, there stood a legendary
hero named Nüwa (女媧) who turned back the
flood and helped to repopulate the world. Analysis
of the ancient Chinese Bronzeware, Oracle Bone
and Seal characters that are associated with flood
(洪) and boat (舟) led to the present-day discovery
of evidence for Nüwa’s ark in the Chinese characters.
Nüwa’s ark housed eight worshippers and
‘the remnants of the world’, and finally came to rest
on a mountain. After the flood receded, the world
began to be repopulated from the eight people on
the Ark. Significantly, the Chinese account of the
Flood has been dated to 1000 BC, suggesting that the
Chinese possess one of the oldest written records
of the Deluge.
more…
Legends from ancient China describe a global catastrophic
flood so vast that the waters reached the
sun and covered the mountains, drowning all the
land-dwelling creatures, including mankind. In the
midst of this global calamity, there stood a legendary
hero named Nüwa (女媧) who turned back the
flood and helped to repopulate the world. Analysis
of the ancient Chinese Bronzeware, Oracle Bone
and Seal characters that are associated with flood
(洪) and boat (舟) led to the present-day discovery
of evidence for Nüwa’s ark in the Chinese characters.
Nüwa’s ark housed eight worshippers and
‘the remnants of the world’, and finally came to rest
on a mountain. After the flood receded, the world
began to be repopulated from the eight people on
the Ark. Significantly, the Chinese account of the
Flood has been dated to 1000 BC, suggesting that the
Chinese possess one of the oldest written records
of the Deluge.
more…
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diggerdomer
Guest
Most scholars think Gilgamesh was written first. Regardless, no one knows for sure.
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diggerdomer
Guest
What tablets?Moses compiled Genesis relying on toledoths. These were the original accounts. They were written on tablets.
The claim that Gilgamesh came before the Biblical account doesn’t even make sense when one accounts for the distortions in the Epic. They are pretty clear to see.
Compare them to the Biblical accounts. You will find the Biblical ones historically true.
gods fighting amongst themselves - geeshhhhhh.
And let’s be clear, Catholic are free to accept Moses as the author of Genesis, or not. So regardless of what tables you’re referring to I don’t understand your point.
If the Biblical accounts are true (as you seem to say) were humans created temporally before or after the animals? One can argue either point from the first two chapters.
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CWBetts
Guest
What other authorship is there? Don’t tell my you buy into that JEDP mess, especially since it is inherently anti-semitic and anti-Catholic.
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itinerant1
Guest
Not even a possibility. Such an absurd idea was fabricated in order to support a fundamentalist view of Genesis. The assertion is contra-indicated by all available evidence.
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edwest2
Guest
That is incorrect. See Humani Generis: vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Peace,
Ed
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itinerant1
Guest
The evidence, which includes a number of clay tables, plus internal examination of the Mesopotamian and biblical accounts leave no doubt whatsoever, which came first. The biblical story came later, long after Abraham departed his original homeland.
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MonFrere
Guest
That’s the whole point of having an account the ancients peoples who believed in ONE GOD; which became the biblical tradition. The biblical account sets the record straight on this point. This is the FIRST POINT of theology - both in terms of God revelation to the ancient peoples - and in terms of our Christian Creeds - I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD.gods fighting amongst themselves - geeshhhhhh.
MonFrere
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itinerant1
Guest
A short story of Yahweh creating the heavens and earth, again, about 6,000 - 10, 000 years ago: 
Archaic Sumerian is the earliest stage of inscriptions with linguistic content, beginning with the Jemdet Nasr (Uruk III) period from about the 31st - 30th centuries B.C. It succeeded the “proto-literate” period of the 35th - 30th centuries B.C.
Accordingly, many thousands of Sumerians, probably the first humans to establish systems of writing, i.e. cuneiform (wedge) script on clay tablets, had already established agriculture and government, and were in the process of developing sophisticated irrigation systems when just 6,000 - 10,000 years ago or so Yahweh decided to create the world.
Totally baffled by the Divine voice that said “Let there be light”, the Sumerians looked at each other and exclaimed, “But we already have light.” We have everything in the sky we need; the sun, moon, and stars. What is He doing?
“Why is he creating dry land, too? We already have a thriving civilization with agriculture on good enough land.”
Nonetheless, Yahweh continued to create plants, animals, and then the first man and woman.
"First man and woman?
What are we Sumerians, then, recycled locusts?
A Sumerian council of elders decided that somebody needed to speak in serious tones to Yahweh about His redundant creations.
Archaic Sumerian is the earliest stage of inscriptions with linguistic content, beginning with the Jemdet Nasr (Uruk III) period from about the 31st - 30th centuries B.C. It succeeded the “proto-literate” period of the 35th - 30th centuries B.C.
Accordingly, many thousands of Sumerians, probably the first humans to establish systems of writing, i.e. cuneiform (wedge) script on clay tablets, had already established agriculture and government, and were in the process of developing sophisticated irrigation systems when just 6,000 - 10,000 years ago or so Yahweh decided to create the world.
Totally baffled by the Divine voice that said “Let there be light”, the Sumerians looked at each other and exclaimed, “But we already have light.” We have everything in the sky we need; the sun, moon, and stars. What is He doing?
“Why is he creating dry land, too? We already have a thriving civilization with agriculture on good enough land.”
Nonetheless, Yahweh continued to create plants, animals, and then the first man and woman.
"First man and woman?
What are we Sumerians, then, recycled locusts?A Sumerian council of elders decided that somebody needed to speak in serious tones to Yahweh about His redundant creations.
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MonFrere
Guest
Why is it when we read ancient Chinese documents about a flood so vast “waters reached the sun” our intelligence somehow informs us that this isn’t to be taken literally; yet when we read of a story where Noah brings animals from the four corners of the earth to be saved on the ark – we labor and twist our logic out of rationality to find ways that this could have happened? – maybe a word needs to be said about the supremacy of the literary skills of our ancient forefathers to absolutely captivate their hearers with a great and imaginative story that still resonates in our “sophisticated” age today. Maybe if we give these ancient peoples their intellectual due - maybe we can understand our own age better.
MonFrere
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donsnow
Guest
Hi, diggerdomer -
I’ve come to the personal conclusion that Gen 1 presents an allegorical history and Gen 2 presents an allegorical prophecy.
Don
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donsnow
Guest
Hi, CWBetts -
Thank you, so much, for posting that. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks that.
My reasoning is, that one person can have different writing styles, depending on if he’s tired, rushed, rested, thoughtful or awed at the time of the writing. I’ve seen different styles in my own private journal. Let’s face it, Moses was administrating a march of over a million people with their livestock. He also had to worry about bandits. And, he met God on Sinai. I think that gives lots of room of him writing one way one day and another way another day. imho.
Don
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donsnow
Guest
Hi, itinerant1 -A short story of Yahweh creating the heavens and earth, again, about 6,000 - 10, 000 years ago:
Archaic Sumerian is the earliest stage of inscriptions with linguistic content, beginning with the Jemdet Nasr (Uruk III) period from about the 31st - 30th centuries B.C. It succeeded the “proto-literate” period of the 35th - 30th centuries B.C.
Accordingly, many thousands of Sumerians, probably the first humans to establish systems of writing, i.e. cuneiform (wedge) script on clay tablets, had already established agriculture and government, and were in the process of developing sophisticated irrigation systems when just 6,000 - 10,000 years ago or so Yahweh decided to create the world.
Totally baffled by the Divine voice that said “Let there be light”, the Sumerians looked at each other and exclaimed, “But we already have light.” We have everything in the sky we need; the sun, moon, and stars. What is He doing?
“Why is he creating dry land, too? We already have a thriving civilization with agriculture on good enough land.”
Nonetheless, Yahweh continued to create plants, animals, and then the first man and woman.
"First man and woman?
A Sumerian council of elders decided that somebody needed to speak in serious tones to Yahweh about His redundant creations.
This is a satire, right?
Anyway, God did all that around 4,000BC, or about the 40th century BC. Before the Sumerians got their act together.
Enjoyed the satire, but you really need to pay attention to YEC arithmetic.
(I wish there were a tongue-in-cheek icon). OECs have good arithmetic, too.Do we really have to pay attention to all these creationists?
No, just the Catholic ones
.
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prettylarge
Guest
I believe in God. I just don’t believe that a worldwide flood happened. Or that one man built an ark big enough to store all these animals.
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