Does the Catholic Church recognize the story of Noah and the flood as being literally true?

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Documentary Hypothesis is still around. Somewhat whittled. Not as strong as it used to be but as a whole the biblical scholars still utilize it to some extent. Nahum Sarna Jewish biblical scholar writer, author, no liberal and no fan of DH says that although many criticize it they all believe it to one extent or another. Some less , some more. For the Best commentaries on Genesis and Exodus I recommend “the JPS Torah Commentary” both by Sarna.Excellent books and incredibly insightful.
 
juliamajor said:
Actually He did. Different rabbis had followers(a lot of them widows)_who would supply money. But that’s all.The idea of Jesus touching a woman or her touching Him would have been an anathema. So would talking to women.To this day Hasidim do not talk or touch females not related to them.That’s why the story of Jesus’ anointing by the woman was so a huge scandal. It horrified them on so many levels.She was a woman not of His family, a sinner and she might me menstruant! Jesus with Peter’s mother in law also a no no.That’s why some Jewish critics say Jesus wasn’t a Jew or those who wrote scripture did not understand Jewish society. I refer you to authors Pilch , Malina and Neyrey who have studied the socio-culture of "honor and shame"that existed in the past and still exists among the Muslims of the Mid East.
Then the whole leper thing , touching a corpse of Jairus’ daughter all involved ritual uncleanliness which was and still is taken seriously in Judaism.
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You missed my sarcasm Jesus did all kinds of things to annoy the higher ups…He offended them enough that he has killed for it.
 
donsnow said:
Yeah, that’s him. He’s the one.
Somebody needs to write about those things.
I haven’t read the one about Atlantis, that’s too far out, for me. But, I’ve read the others. I find them all thought provoking, even though they’re fringe material.

I think I also have Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds and The Philadelphia Experiment in the back room. I keep the books I read more often in the front of the house.
Now, you know my secret.:o:blush:🤷
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Ah , yes . Brain Candy!😃 Great Brains like us need a little R&R:thumbsup:
 
juliamajor said:
Documentary Hypothesis is still around. Somewhat whittled. Not as strong as it used to be but as a whole the biblical scholars still utilize it to some extent. Nahum Sarna Jewish biblical scholar writer, author, no liberal and no fan of DH says that although many criticize it they all believe it to one extent or another. Some less , some more. For the Best commentaries on Genesis and Exodus I recommend “the JPS Torah Commentary” both by Sarna.Excellent books and incredibly insightful.
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Hi, again -

I find I’m interested in a Jewish commentary on the Torah.
The only JPS book I have is their English translation to their Holy Scriptures (our OT).

Don
 
MonFrere said:
Sounds like the unverified sequel historians have been searching for decades to Jules Verne’s famous 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea — 20,000 Spans Above Sea Level.

MonFrere
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Hi, MonFrere -

Ya…I have a paperback English translation to Jules Verne’s 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea on my fiction bookshelf in the front room.🙂

But, it was 1960’s scifi, into which my imagination dipped for my newsflash.

Don
 
donsnow said:
You know, that with God, all things are possible; that’s why I postulated the guardian angel, which is an established Catholic tradition.🤷
Don
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But don’t you see that this is fast starting to become to be akin to God making a round square? To make the flood actually happen you have God suspending virtually every law of nature He created; laws which make our experience on this planet possible. To my way of thinking this would be ungodlike of Him.

MonFrere
 
MonFrere said:
But don’t you see that this is fast starting to become to be akin to God making a round square? To make the flood actually happen you have God suspending virtually every law of nature He created; laws which make our experience on this planet possible. To my way of thinking this would be ungodlike of Him.

MonFrere
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Hi, MonFrere -

Actually, I can visualize God exercising known laws to gain the effect. Be that as it may, who am I to judge my creator?

Don
P.S.
This old man has set himself a schedule and my bedtime is 10:00PM. Folks, I have enjoyed the time with all of you, tonight. I’ll be back tomorrow, God willing.
 
donsnow said:
:rotfl:

More lessons like that, and my imagination will cooperate more with my trying to keep it within doctrinal bounds.😃

Seriously, I’ve been sitting here, trying to estimate the freeboard/draft of said Ark with a full load. I gave it a 30’ draft and wound up with the 15’ freeboard, which would make the Ark susceptible to becoming awash in hard seas. So, I see your point, from today’s understanding of ships’ characteristics.
I’m not going to cop out.
But, the stress…
I’m not going to cop out.
There’s a lot of pressure, man…
I’m not going to
Oh, furshlugginer
You know, that with God, all things are possible; that’s why I postulated the guardian angel, which is an established Catholic tradition.🤷

Don
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This one is your Excedrin headache, to which I am about to add more pain.

God can do anything we say He can do, :rolleyes: including multiplying miracles unnecessarily to suit the gaps in our understanding.

Sure, you can posit a guardian angel, if that’s what floats your boat, but it would be theological cheating because the Bible makes no mention of an angel performing coast guard duties on the high seas.
 
itinerant1 said:
It was quite clear on the site who was the author of any particular.article. I don’t think anyone could easily mistake who wrote what.

I checked on Wiseman’s background on other websites. Again, I did not find the toledoths’ theory very convincing. If I wanted to, I could present good counter-arguments
to every one of Wiseman’s key points.

It makes no difference to me whether Sungenis disagrees with anything Wiseman says. I read articles by Sungenis and I was not impressed.

I am sure you are disappointed that I did not like the website, but I read enough articles on that site to get a fair idea of the positions it agrees and disagrees with. There are many more positions from the site I could have listed that I disagree with, such as the Fred & Barney hypothesis of humans co-existing with dinosaurs, etc. I would just need to see more evidence for many positions than what was presented.

Regarding the Pentateuch, I have basically followed the position explained by Peter F. Ellis, C.SS.R. in The Yahwist:The Bible’s First Theologian. This was published in 1968. Since then, there have been modifications of the Yahwist hypothesis suggested by some biblical scholars. For example: that the larger blocks of Pentateuchal tradition, primarily the stories of the patriarchs and Moses, were not redactionally linked before the Priestly Code, as the Yahwist (J) hypothesis suggests, but existed side by side as two independent, and perhaps rival traditions, of Israel’s origins.

On the other hand, I find that Wiseman’s hypothesis of authorship raises far too many questions, questions that his hypothesis is incapable of providing satisfactory answers to.
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Do you believe there were tablets which Moses used as a source?
 
MonFrere said:
But don’t you see that this is fast starting to become to be akin to God making a round square? To make the flood actually happen you have God suspending virtually every law of nature He created; laws which make our experience on this planet possible. To my way of thinking this would be ungodlike of Him.

MonFrere
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Do you think the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima was unGodlike?
 
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o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o oI Know it isn’t cheap but it is well worth the price.Donsnow-do you have the JPS Jewish Study Bible? The translation is not the best but the study notes are terrific.
 
donsnow said:
I still can’t believe that science can disprove the flood; consequently, I think they really haven’t enough global evidence to disprove the flood. I think that the claim of disproving the flood, by common sense, is based on inadequate evidence. So, I believe that people in science are making a premature claim of disproof.

And, since WWI, airplanes have been photographing something that looks the size of the Ark, in a glacier 2/3 of the way up the mountain, I think there’s a chance that’s the Ark. Also, there’s documented anecdotes from people who say they found and saw the Ark when the glacier melted a bit, before it refroze, the early twentieth century.

Subsequently, I think there’s something on that mountain, and I believe skeptics are premature in discounting the anecdotal evidence.

Don
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You are asking us to DISPROVE a fantastic and unrealistic claim? OK, well you can’t disprove unicorns. They must exist too.
 
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