Does the Catholic Church recognize the story of Noah and the flood as being literally true?

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CWBetts said:
If women were to be ordained as Priests, then Mary Magdalene would have most assuredly been.
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Why? Paul wasn’t a priest. I guess if men were to be ordained as priests, Paul wouldhave most assuredly been.
 
CWBetts said:
That’s right, Jesus NEVER did ANYTHING that would upset the existing social order!! :rolleyes:

If the ordiantion of women were to be acceptable, at least one would have been ordained.
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Paul said that they shouldn’t even talk in the church, but we don’t follow that anymore.
 
prettylarge said:
Why? Paul wasn’t a priest. I guess if men were to be ordained as priests, Paul wouldhave most assuredly been.
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Is this some subtle attempt at irony, or are you earnestly advancing the opinion that St. Paul was not a priest?
 
prettylarge said:
Paul said that they shouldn’t even talk in the church, but we don’t follow that anymore.
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That is because men and women sat on opposite sides of the congregation. If a woman were to ask her husband a question, she would either have to get up and walk over to him, or she would have to yell out to him. This was merely to prevent chaos. Learn the cultural context.
 
buffalo said:
Do you think the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima was unGodlike?
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Of course not. But I do NOT think for a moment that the sun was literally coming in a collision course toward to the earth. I’ve never read of an explanation of this miraculous event; yet the physical operation of the cosmos is a predictable operation which is WHY it is a place where life can be sustained. I personally don’t NEED an explanation of this event. The fact that it happened through the words of our Blessed Mother exactly as she said and it had the exact effect she wanted is miracle enough for me – without the event being a literal movement of our heavenly bodies. My GUESS is that this was some sort of optical illusion created by something in our atmosphere which gave the appearance of the sun spinning toward earth. SCARY SCARY SCARY!!! And YET still a miraculous event.

MonFrere
 
Many years after the events in question, Stanley L. Jaki, a professor of physics at Seton Hall University, New Jersey, Benedictine priest and author of a number of books reconciling science and Catholicism, proposed a unique theory about the supposed miracle. Jaki believes that the event was natural and meteorological in nature, but that the fact the event occurred at the exact time predicted was a miracle.
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Just found the above quote from Wikipedia that give the explanation from a trusted Catholic priest and scientist, Fr. Stanley Jaki. This basically collaborates my opinion above. It was miraculous because of the PREDICTION of the Blessed Mother; even though there may be a physical explanation of the event.

MonFrere
 
MonFrere said:
Just found the above quote from Wikipedia that give the explanation from a trusted Catholic priest and scientist, Fr. Stanley Jaki. This basically collaborates my opinion above. It was miraculous because of the PREDICTION of the Blessed Mother; even though there may be a physical explanation of the event.

MonFrere
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Jaki’ has written the first full-scale study of the eyewitness accounts in his God and the Sun at Fatima. Jaki changed his account of the “miracle of the sun” after the book’s first edition to incorporate the findings in this matter in 1958 by a Portuguese scientist.

What is missing in the reference to Jaki’s explanation given in that “reliable” source for all things Catholic, Wikipedia, is the further explanation of a meteorological event so unusual, even the learned people in the crowd at Fatima had never seen such a thing before nor had any explanation for it.

It cannot be a co-incidence that this event, foretold by Mary, just happened to occur most opportunely at Fatima as evidence for Mary’s presence and the credibility of the children.

The main point here is that God will work in nature in ways that are not miraculous to achieve His purpose. The “miracle of the sun” is not necessarily a miracle as was the changing of water into wine in the Gospel, or the healing of the blind and paralytic, and so on.

So, how does God work in ways that are not miraculous? Cardinal Newman gave a very insightful explanation about Divine Providence. I will provide a brief quote of a discussion regarding Newman’s views on Providence. We can apply Newman’s insights to the “miracle of the sun” at Fatima.

The law of Providence, he [Cardinal Newman] says, “works beneath a veil, and what is visible in its course does but shadow out at most, and sometimes obscures and disguises what is invisible. The world in which we are placed has its own system of laws and principles, which, as far as our knowledge of it goes, is, when once set in motion, sufficient to account for itself—as complete and independent as if there was nothing beyond it.” He then, after developing the truth of the close texture of nature and human life, argues that God, as present to His creation, will act “by means of its ordinary system, or by quickening, or, as it were, by stimulating its powers, or by superseding or interrupting it.” Miraculous interference will be, by the nature of the case, rare, and, as God is present to nature, he will act “through, with, and beneath those physical, social, and moral laws of which our experience informs us.”

So, at Fatima there may have been an air lens made of ice crystals that was put in motion by two air streams and by a sudden temperature inversion. The crowd saw the sun through this meteorological phenomena. Though this event was not strictly miraculous, it was not co-incidental either, nor was it nature following an undirected course.

To apply Newman’s insights described above regarding Divine Providence, we can say the meteorological event at Fatima was the work of God, Who “does but modify, quicken or direct the powers of nature.”
 
CWBetts said:
That is because men and women sat on opposite sides of the congregation. If a woman were to ask her husband a question, she would either have to get up and walk over to him, or she would have to yell out to him. This was merely to prevent chaos. Learn the cultural context.
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If that is the explanation, then what about men? Were they permitted to yell out and ask their wives questions? What is the source for your explanation?
 
If Noah Tried to Build an Ark Today…

The Lord speaks to Noah and says: “In one year, I am going to make it rain and cover the whole Earth with water until all is destroyed. But I want you to save the righteous people and two of every kind of living thing on the Earth. Therefore, I am commanding you to build an Ark.”

In a flash of lightning, God delivered the specifications for an Ark.

Fearful and trembling, Noah took the plans and agreed to build the Ark.

“Remember,” said the Lord, “You must complete the Ark and bring everything aboard in one year.”

Exactly one year later, a fierce storm cloud formed and all the seas of the earth went into a tumult. The Lord saw Noah sitting in his front yard weeping. “Noah.” He shouted, “Where is the Ark?”

“Lord, please forgive me!” cried Noah. "I did my best but there were big problems. First, I had to get a permit for construction and your plans did not comply with the codes. I had to hire an engineering firm and redraw the plans. Then I got into a fight with OSHA over whether or not the Ark needed a fire sprinkler system and floatation devices.

Then my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning ordinances by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planning commission.

I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark, because there was a ban on cutting trees to protect the Spotted Owl. I finally convinced the U.S. Forest Service that I needed the wood to save the owls.

However, the Fish and Wildlife Service won’t let me catch any owls. So, no owls.

The carpenters formed a union and went out on strike. I had to negotiate a settlement with the National Labor Union. Now I have 16 carpenters on the Ark, but still no owls.

When I started rounding up the other animals, I got sued by an animal rights group. They objected to me only taking two of each kind aboard.

Just when I got the suit dismissed, the EPA notified me that I could not complete the Ark without filing an environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn’t take very kindly to the idea that they had no jurisdiction over the conduct of the Creator of the universe.

Then the Army Corps of Engineer demanded a map of the proposed new flood plain. I sent them a globe.

Right now, I am trying to resolve a complaint filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission that I am practicing discrimination by not taking godless, unbelieving people aboard!

The IRS has seized all my assets, claiming that I’m building the Ark in preparation to flee the country to avoid paying taxes.

I just got a notice from the State that I owe some kind of user tax and failed to register the Ark as a ‘recreational water craft.’

Finally the ACLU got the courts to issue an injunction against further construction of the Ark, saying that since God is flooding the earth, it is a religious event and therefore unconstitutional.

I really don’t think I can finish the Ark for another 5 or 6 years!" Noah wailed.

The sky began to clear, the sun began to shine and the seas began to calm. A rainbow arched across the sky.

Noah looked up hopefully. “You mean you are not going to destroy the Earth, Lord?”

“No,” said the Lord sadly. “The government already has!”
 
donsnow said:
** The dream showed me that those dome devices were transporter:rolleyes: which could reach all over the Earth and bring the animals to inside the Ark."**

Hot dawg – I knew Noah used transporters – that’ the only way he could have gotten 60 million animals on board the ark. I’ll bet they were Star Fleet standard issue. I wonder if the pattern buffer malfunctioned just once, which would explain why the unicorns didn’t make it through.

StAnastasia
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itinerant1 said:
Maybe it would float, but I’m sure it was not a seaworthy box.
Make yourself a model ark to scale, guessing the relative weight of the materials, then get yourself one of those shrinking devices like the one used in “Honey, I Shrink the Kids,” go to the local zoo and shrink all the animals there, shrink a bunch of friends, too, and then put them all aboard the mini barge, and see how long it will float in a swimming pool. .
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Some guy in Holland has built a 3/4 size ark, but it is not seaworthy, so it rests in a steel barge. arkvannoach.com/
 
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itinerant1 said:
Jaki’ has written the first full-scale study of the eyewitness accounts in his God and the Sun at Fatima. Jaki changed his account of the “miracle of the sun” after the book’s first edition to incorporate the findings in this matter in 1958 by a Portuguese scientist.

What is missing in the reference to Jaki’s explanation given in that “reliable” source for all things Catholic, Wikipedia, is the further explanation of a meteorological event so unusual, even the learned people in the crowd at Fatima had never seen such a thing before nor had any explanation for it.

It cannot be a co-incidence that this event, foretold by Mary, just happened to occur most opportunely at Fatima as evidence for Mary’s presence and the credibility of the children.

The main point here is that God will work in nature in ways that are not miraculous to achieve His purpose. The “miracle of the sun” is not necessarily a miracle as was the changing of water into wine in the Gospel, or the healing of the blind and paralytic, and so on.

So, how does God work in ways that are not miraculous? Cardinal Newman gave a very insightful explanation about Divine Providence. I will provide a brief quote of a discussion regarding Newman’s views on Providence. We can apply Newman’s insights to the “miracle of the sun” at Fatima.

The law of Providence, he [Cardinal Newman] says, “works beneath a veil, and what is visible in its course does but shadow out at most, and sometimes obscures and disguises what is invisible. The world in which we are placed has its own system of laws and principles, which, as far as our knowledge of it goes, is, when once set in motion, sufficient to account for itself—as complete and independent as if there was nothing beyond it.” He then, after developing the truth of the close texture of nature and human life, argues that God, as present to His creation, will act “by means of its ordinary system, or by quickening, or, as it were, by stimulating its powers, or by superseding or interrupting it.” Miraculous interference will be, by the nature of the case, rare, and, as God is present to nature, he will act “through, with, and beneath those physical, social, and moral laws of which our experience informs us.”

So, at Fatima there may have been an air lens made of ice crystals that was put in motion by two air streams and by a sudden temperature inversion. The crowd saw the sun through this meteorological phenomena. Though this event was not strictly miraculous, it was not co-incidental either, nor was it nature following an undirected course.

To apply Newman’s insights described above regarding Divine Providence, we can say the meteorological event at Fatima was the work of God, Who “does but modify, quicken or direct the powers of nature.”
Click to expand...
While whatever happened in the sky, the blind began to see and cripples began to walk.
 
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