Does the church call sex 'bad?'

[holyrood]

I believe it doesn’t. I believe the Church teaches that there’s a proper time and place for sex, and that it teaches this in wisdom, because God knows that, like fire, it can be very harmful outside of its proper time and place.

I have a friend who takes the view that the Church says sex is ‘bad.’ His reasoning is that the Church calls it sin outside of marriage, and sin is bad.

I can’t really argue with his reasoning, but I feel that the intention and reasons behind calling it sinful are an important nuance, since it’s about telling us what’s good and beneficial for us, not, as many currently believe, that the Church just wants ‘control’ over our sex lives. (That baffles me–people really think bishops and cardinals have nothing more on their minds than ‘controlling’ people? For what purpose? What in the world would they, personally be getting out of ‘controlling’ people, especially their sex lives? But I suppose that’s bordering on a rant and another thread.)

For background information, this friend is a fallen-away Catholic, who greatly admires his relatives who were devout nuns and priests, and has many fond memories of his great-aunt at prayer. He admires my faith greatly and doesn’t try to sway me or convince me to change my ways. But he himself, has lived very differently. And he feels that it’s been good and beneficial, that it’s been a way of becoming close to people. He feels all the sex has been a positive good in his life.

Do others–those who really know theology and what the Church teaches very well–see the Church as saying sex outside marriage is ‘bad’ or ‘sinful’ or both? Is it the same thing or is there a fine difference, due to the reasoning behind it?

 

[Della]

Merely because sex can be misused doesn’t make it bad any more than fire is bad if used properly. One would not set oneself on fire to prove that fire is good in all contexts. Neither is sex proper in all contexts, but only within the one for which it was created–for the union of a man and a woman open to producing children.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

The Church doesn’t teach that “sex is bad”. It teaches that “the marital act” (moral theology term) is to be used between a (validly) married husband and wife and every act must be open to life.

The main purposes of marriage is procreation and raising holy children. When a man and a woman enter into marriage they contract bodily rights over each other, which is why it’s a sin to deny the other spouse the marital act without sufficient reason.

The marital act outside of marriage is disordered. It is based on lust and selfish reasons (ie: pleasure) rather than it’s unitive and procreative nature.

 

[Allegra]

The Church doesn’t call sex 'bad"! The Church calls sex IMPORTANT!

 

[St_Francis]

I tend to use car analogies… to me, the Church teaches that sex is like a beautifully maintained, antique Rolls Royce.

You wouldn’t use a car like that for fun in a demolition derby.

The marital act is a wonderful and beautiful gift from God in which we participate with Him in the creation of new eternal souls. How often do we get to do something like that?

And we drag the marital act in the mud when we use it just for our own un-eternal purposes instead of the exalted purpose for which God gave it to us.

 

[Ruthie_again]

No! Here’s the Catechism, bolding mine:

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.146

(The section starts with #2360. It’s part of the chapter on chastity, which starts with #2337.)

 

[austenbosten]

Sex is not bad unless you are a 16th-century radical Protestant.

 

[DoGodsBidding]

I tend to use car analogies… to me, the Church teaches that sex is like a beautifully maintained, antique Rolls Royce.

You wouldn’t use a car like that for fun in a demolition derby.

The marital act is a wonderful and beautiful gift from God in which we participate with Him in the creation of new eternal souls. How often do we get to do something like that?

And we drag the marital act in the mud when we use it just for our own un-eternal purposes instead of the exalted purpose for which God gave it to us.

Good analogy. I might share this one should I have the occasion.

DGB

 

[Della]

Sex is not bad unless you are a 16th-century radical Protestant.

There’s something in that, actually. A lot of people have puritanical attitudes towards sex that promote the idea that is it “dirty” or wrong. I believe it’s one reason why our sex-soaked society is so obsessed about it–because they’re apostate Protestants/Jansenist Catholics who are trying to flee this notion, but taking it way too far the other way. Of course, human weakness and sin contribute a great deal to this, but if people truly understood the propler place sex should have in our lives and lived by that, most of the porn shops and the internet sites would disappear. It’s really a form of misogyny–the idea that sex is inherently “evil”. For it makes women objects, making it only worse.

 

[edwest2]

I believe it doesn’t. I believe the Church teaches that there’s a proper time and place for sex, and that it teaches this in wisdom, because God knows that, like fire, it can be very harmful outside of its proper time and place.

I have a friend who takes the view that the Church says sex is ‘bad.’ His reasoning is that the Church calls it sin outside of marriage, and sin is bad.

I can’t really argue with his reasoning, but I feel that the intention and reasons behind calling it sinful are an important nuance, since it’s about telling us what’s good and beneficial for us, not, as many currently believe, that the Church just wants ‘control’ over our sex lives. (That baffles me–people really think bishops and cardinals have nothing more on their minds than ‘controlling’ people? For what purpose? What in the world would they, personally be getting out of ‘controlling’ people, especially their sex lives? But I suppose that’s bordering on a rant and another thread.)

For background information, this friend is a fallen-away Catholic, who greatly admires his relatives who were devout nuns and priests, and has many fond memories of his great-aunt at prayer. He admires my faith greatly and doesn’t try to sway me or convince me to change my ways. But he himself, has lived very differently. And he feels that it’s been good and beneficial, that it’s been a way of becoming close to people. He feels all the sex has been a positive good in his life.

Do others–those who really know theology and what the Church teaches very well–see the Church as saying sex outside marriage is ‘bad’ or ‘sinful’ or both? Is it the same thing or is there a fine difference, due to the reasoning behind it?

First of all, who decides when you, or anyone, has sex? The Church? No.

If your friend is feeling guilty or he is mindful of the Church and doesn’t like it what it teaches regarding sex, then he should decide. The Church never forces. If you miss Mass on Sunday, I guarantee a priest will not be pounding on your door Monday asking where you were.

Bad means doing the wrong thing. The secular world sometimes establishes their own idea of what is good or bad. How about two people living together and having sex or just ‘hooking up,’ having sex and that’s it? What’s the bad part? Everybody’s doing it.

No, the Church calls all forms of sex outside of marriage sin and bad for us. Sin can be defined as rejecting what is the greatest good for us right now and accepting a substitute, a counterfeit.

Sex in marriage is not bad.

Fornication: Sex between two people who are not married is a sin.
Adultery: Sex between two people where one or both is married to someone else is sin.
Masturbation: A sexual activity that is sinful, but the Church recognizes that there may, in certain circumstances, be mitigating factors regarding the degree of its sinfulness. But we are still taught it is sinful.

No, the Church does not call sex bad. But it can be sinful if acted out outside of marriage.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Vico]

I believe it doesn’t. I believe the Church teaches that there’s a proper time and place for sex, and that it teaches this in wisdom, because God knows that, like fire, it can be very harmful outside of its proper time and place.

I have a friend who takes the view that the Church says sex is ‘bad.’ His reasoning is that the Church calls it sin outside of marriage, and sin is bad.

I can’t really argue with his reasoning, but I feel that the intention and reasons behind calling it sinful are an important nuance, since it’s about telling us what’s good and beneficial for us, not, as many currently believe, that the Church just wants ‘control’ over our sex lives. (That baffles me–people really think bishops and cardinals have nothing more on their minds than ‘controlling’ people? For what purpose? What in the world would they, personally be getting out of ‘controlling’ people, especially their sex lives? But I suppose that’s bordering on a rant and another thread.)

For background information, this friend is a fallen-away Catholic, who greatly admires his relatives who were devout nuns and priests, and has many fond memories of his great-aunt at prayer. He admires my faith greatly and doesn’t try to sway me or convince me to change my ways. But he himself, has lived very differently. And he feels that it’s been good and beneficial, that it’s been a way of becoming close to people. He feels all the sex has been a positive good in his life.

Do others–those who really know theology and what the Church teaches very well–see the Church as saying sex outside marriage is ‘bad’ or ‘sinful’ or both? Is it the same thing or is there a fine difference, due to the reasoning behind it?

The Church teaches that any disordered desire or any good sought improperly is sinful. The deadly sins in general are: pride, envy, anger, lust, greed, gluttony, and sloth.

To restate the friend thinks the Church says:

1. outside of marriage, sex is sin
2. sin is bad
   Therefore sex is bad.

This is illogical, the logical conclusion is that sex outside of marriage is bad. But even that is not precisely what the Church teaches, because sex within marriage can also be sinful. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:2351 *Lust *is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.146

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2400 Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offenses against the dignity of marriage.

Also counted:
2354 *Pornography
*2355 *Prostitution
*2356 *Rape
*2388 *Incest
*​

Of course any of these entertained in thought are also gravely sinful.

 

[superamazingman]

I believe it doesn’t. I believe the Church teaches that there’s a proper time and place for sex, and that it teaches this in wisdom, because God knows that, like fire, it can be very harmful outside of its proper time and place.

I have a friend who takes the view that the Church says sex is ‘bad.’ His reasoning is that the Church calls it sin outside of marriage, and sin is bad.

I’m not trying to extend this analogy too far, but think of it like the Eucharist. It’s something that is very good. But when “misused” (such as in the case of a defrocked priest trying to celebrate Mass), it is a very bad sin. That doesn’t make the Eucharist bad. That makes the priest’s sin bad.

 

[fer]

Actually the Church proclaims Sex as something sacred

Br. Fernando LC

 

[fer]

The Church teaches that any disordered desire or any good sought improperly is sinful. The deadly sins in general are: pride, envy, anger, lust, greed, gluttony, and sloth.

To restate the friend thinks the Church says:

1. outside of marriage, sex is sin
2. sin is bad
   Therefore sex is bad.

This is illogical, the logical conclusion is that sex outside of marriage is bad. But even that is not precisely what the Church teaches, because sex within marriage can also be sinful. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:2351 *Lust *is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.146

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2400 Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offenses against the dignity of marriage.

Also counted:
2354 *Pornography
*2355 *Prostitution
*2356 *Rape
*2388 *Incest
*​

Of course any of these entertained in thought are also gravely sinful.

But Sex in itself is not Bad, then, God wouldve not created it, dont you think??.

Br. Fernando, LC

 

[holyrood]

I’ve told him all of these things, or very similar.

Is he accurate and fair, then, is saying that the Church calls sex outside of marriage ‘bad?’

 

[AnthonySorensen]

I’ve told him all of these things, or very similar.

Is he accurate and fair, then, is saying that the Church calls sex outside of marriage ‘bad?’

Yes, fornication is a mortal sin.

 

[superamazingman]

I’ve told him all of these things, or very similar.

Is he accurate and fair, then, is saying that the Church calls sex outside of marriage ‘bad?’

The act of having sex with someone not your spouse is what is bad, not the sex itself.

 

[ReachingFaith]

The act of having sex with someone not your spouse is what is bad, not the sex itself.

Oh, I see. At first I thought they were saying the church condemns sex, which makes no sense! But outside of marriage, yeah.

 

[holyrood]

The act of having sex with someone not your spouse is what is bad, not the sex itself.

Thank you.

I think my frustration with this is that I feel in hifs choice of words, he’s condemning the conclusion of the Church as stemming from dark ulterior motives, rather than recognizing that it’s about what’s healthy spiritually. Maybe it’s really in his tone, or maybe it’s that I, of course, bring to the discussion years of hearing people condemn our bishops and priests as having some bizarre desire to ‘control’ people by ‘controlling’ their sex lives.

Anyway, he did concede that the Church does not make a blanket condemnation of all sex as being bad. He seems to feel that a great deal of positive good has come out of his lifestyle of lots of free sex with lots of women. He feels it’s a way of connecting emotionally and feels that sex is very much on a level with any other recreational activity except that it can be a profound emotional and even spiritual experience with the right person.

 

[Vico]

Thank you.

I think my frustration with this is that I feel in hifs choice of words, he’s condemning the conclusion of the Church as stemming from dark ulterior motives, rather than recognizing that it’s about what’s healthy spiritually. Maybe it’s really in his tone, or maybe it’s that I, of course, bring to the discussion years of hearing people condemn our bishops and priests as having some bizarre desire to ‘control’ people by ‘controlling’ their sex lives.

Anyway, he did concede that the Church does not make a blanket condemnation of all sex as being bad. He seems to feel that a great deal of positive good has come out of his lifestyle of lots of free sex with lots of women. He feels it’s a way of connecting emotionally and feels that sex is very much on a level with any other recreational activity except that it can be a profound emotional and even spiritual experience with the right person.

There have been some hedonistic schools of philosophy that valued pleasure like that. It is preferred philosophy of those that do not believe in an afterlife.