Does the Church teach that the prophecy of Revelation 20:1-10 is being fulfilled now?

[mercytruth]

catholic.com/quickquestions/does-the-church-teach-that-the-prophecy-of-revelation-201-10-is-being-fulfilled-now

 

[runningdude]

No. Only the Father knows when the end of the world will occur. Thus the Church does not tread into issuing any formal teachings in this area.

 

[edwest2]

“FOR the second time in his pontificate, Pope Benedict XVI has made a point of saying that Christ’s coming as Judge and the end of the world are not “near” as some suggest; that certain events must come first before He returns for the Final Judgment.”

"Paul himself, in his Letter to the Thessalonians, tells us that nobody can know the moment of the Lord’s coming and warns us against any alarm that Christ’s return might be at hand." —POPE BENEDICT XVI, December 14th, 2008, Vatican City

Peace,
Ed

 

[lakotak]

No. Only the Father knows when the end of the world will occur. Thus the Church does not tread into issuing any formal teachings in this area.

Not a point for debate, but it has always seemed strange to me that with Jesus being God and one in being with the Father that he does not know when the end of time is. I have always been confused by this. Maybe ones more learned that I could shed some light on this.

 

[centurionguard]

No. Only the Father knows when the end of the world will occur. Thus the Church does not tread into issuing any formal teachings in this area.

I’m with you insofar as “only” God the Father knows the time and the hour. But that’s a given known to all Faithful Catholics who should rightly practice their ardent Faith above all else.

Given certain Global events in the last 2000 years particularly in the last 500 years or so its reasonable to conclude that something is not right in this world profoundly from a societal moral stance, where there’s an overall decadence in how mankind as a whole has unsurped the Laws and Moral teachings of God and replaced them with unbridled behaviors that have nothing to do with God’s Commandments.

Methinks the overall Global Media and the Computer Age itself is owned and operated by Satan’s strong influences. Satan is well aware of mankind’s weaknesses. Every kind of Pride related the feeding off the Lusts of the Flesh and its senses. That is humanities great fall. All sins great and small are related to the glories of the Flesh.

We only need to exam ourselves and realize how truly weak we really are and to realize we are truly (“nothing”) without God. My mind reflects on the boast of Satan who thought he was once greater than God before he was thrown out with all his minions and followers. Look at the Age of Enlightenment almost 150 years ago, and how it has got the human souls of society in so much trouble today. It seems God is just a name today. He’s most certainly is not feared as He should righteously to His honored namesake.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm

“YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND”

ARTICLE 1
THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.3

It is written: "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."4

I. “YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE”

2084 God makes himself known by recalling his all-powerful loving, and liberating action in the history of the one he addresses: “I brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.” The first word contains the first commandment of the Law: "You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve him. . . . You shall not go after other gods."5 God’s first call and just demand is that man accept him and worship him.

This world has too many Graven Images (False Gods).
drbo.org/chapter/73003.htm
The Apocalypse Of Saint John (Revelation) Chapter 3 verses 15-22

[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot.

[16] But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. [17] Because thou sayest: I am rich, and made wealthy, and have need of nothing: and knowest not, that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. [18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold fire tried, that thou mayest be made rich; and mayest be clothed in white garments, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not appear; and anoint thy eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. [19] Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance. [20] Behold, I stand at the gate, and knock. If any man shall hear my voice, and open to me the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[21] To him that shall overcome, I will give to sit with me in my throne: as I also have overcome, and am set down with my Father in his throne. [22] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

 

[centurionguard]

Not a point for debate, but it has always seemed strange to me that with Jesus being God and one in being with the Father that he does not know when the end of time is. I have always been confused by this. Maybe ones more learned that I could shed some light on this.

It shouldn’t be that confusing or contradictory. The secret of God the Father knowing the time and hour is held in the unfathomable Mystery of the Holy Trinity.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Not a point for debate, but it has always seemed strange to me that with Jesus being God and one in being with the Father that he does not know when the end of time is. I have always been confused by this. Maybe ones more learned that I could shed some light on this.

Remember that Christ possessed two natures. When he talks like that he is obviously speaking from his human nature. I am not competent to know if the man Jesus was aware of all knowledge the Father possessed, or perhaps the Father could with hold knowledge from time to time. Such incidents might indicate either or neither. But I have been interested too.

 

[mercytruth]

I appreciate all your answers, but I was more interested in knowing what the Catholic Church has traditionally taught regarding this particular aspect of the question:

Catholic teaching holds that the millennium mentioned in Revelation 20:1-10 is going on now. What does the Catholic Church see as fulfilling the particular details of this prophecy?

God’s peace

micah

 

[PJM]

=mercytruth;9904818]catholic.com/quickquestions/does-the-church-teach-that-the-prophecy-of-revelation-201-10-is-being-fulfilled-now

!!!

Here is WHY;

Matthew 24:29-36 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. ***Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. ***

 

[lakotak]

Remember that Christ possessed two natures. When he talks like that he is obviously speaking from his human nature. I am not competent to know if the man Jesus was aware of all knowledge the Father possessed, or perhaps the Father could with hold knowledge from time to time. Such incidents might indicate either or neither. But I have been interested too.

I can understand, for some reason, that this information could be withheld from him while he was on earth. But I am wondering how it is possible that him being God in union with the Father in his glorified state still would not know, if this would be the case. Just something to think about from time to time.

 

[thesmiter1]

Remember that Christ possessed two natures. When he talks like that he is obviously speaking from his human nature. I am not competent to know if the man Jesus was aware of all knowledge the Father possessed, or perhaps the Father could with hold knowledge from time to time. Such incidents might indicate either or neither. But I have been interested too.

Careful. Don’t want to get caught up in either Nestorianism or Monophysitism. One declares the separation of Christ’s natures, one proclaims only one. These are both heresies.

I wonder if any knowledgeable Apologist has an understanding of Triniterian theology as it applies to this statement made by Christ. I believe I heard that Christ spoke as He did not know the hour, as in it was up the Father to decide. He did not know it as in He did not determine it and it was not His to reveal, but He is consubstantial with the Father, and thus nothing can be ‘hidden’ from Him. I have heard the ‘completely dual nature and ignorance on Christ’s part’ as being a Nestorian heresy.

From a post on the subject from an older thread:

**Originally Posted by RoryMcKenzie56 **
St. Chrysostom argues that in speaking to His disciples in this way, Christ is not affirming personal ignorance, but that in His mission, which is completely subordinate to the Father, He is not at liberty to reveal this information. He is answering the question that was put to Him at the beginning of His discourse in Mt. 24 where they asked about when the end would be. If His answer in Mt. 24 seems to exclude Himself, it is not because the Son lacked knowledge, but because this particular knowledge is to be concealed and not part of the message of Christ. It seems more clear in Acts 1, where again Jesus deflects the question but more clearly affirms that He is not supposed to reveal this information.

Be careful when considering His dual nature too separately. Hopefully someone with more experience can weigh in on this.

 

[lakotak]

Careful. Don’t want to get caught up in either Nestorianism or Monophysitism. One declares the separation of Christ’s natures, one proclaims only one. These are both heresies.

I wonder if any knowledgeable Apologist has an understanding of Triniterian theology as it applies to this statement made by Christ. I believe I heard that Christ spoke as He did not know the hour, as in it was up the Father to decide. He did not know it as in He did not determine it and it was not His to reveal, but He is consubstantial with the Father, and thus nothing can be ‘hidden’ from Him. I have heard the ‘completely dual nature and ignorance on Christ’s part’ as being a Nestorian heresy.

From a post on the subject from an older thread:

Be careful when considering His dual nature too separately. Hopefully someone with more experience can weigh in on this.

Thanks for the information stated by St. Chrysostom. This really makes sense to me. I wondered about this too. Thanks.

 

[thesmiter1]

I can understand, for some reason, that this information could be withheld from him while he was on earth. But I am wondering how it is possible that him being God in union with the Father in his glorified state still would not know, if this would be the case. Just something to think about from time to time.

Edit: I made this before your response and simply to impart more knowledge on the subject, not to chastise or prove anyone wrong. I am also confused on the subject and thought this might help. My emphasis is not meant to be chastising or rebuking:

He WOULD know. They are ONE GOD, not three separate gods. No knowledge is withheld from another, and Christ’s nature was not completely separate or confused (these are both heresies). Christ was likely speaking in terms that He did not determine the time, and/or He was not at liberty to divulge the information. It was not His place to ‘know’, so to speak. He knows all that the Father knows, but He does not KNOW (determine, reveal, decide) the time as the Father does.

From John Chrysostom:

" ‘Of that day and that hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven nor the Son, except the Father.’ By the saying ‘neither the angels’ he stopped their mouths, lest they seek to learn what even the angels did not know; and by the saying, ‘nor the Son’ he forbids them not only to learn but even to inquire. He refers this knowledge to the Father both to make the matter more awesome and to preclude their inquiring about it. If this is not the reason, and he really is ignorant of the day and the hour, when will he come to know it? At the same time we do? … He says, ‘When you do not expect it, he will come,’ because he wants them to be anxiously waiting and constantly engaged in virtuous practice. What he means is something like this: ‘If the generality of men knew when they were to die, they would strive earnestly only at that hour’ " (Homilies on the Gospel of Matthew 77:1 [A.D. 370]).

From Augustine:

“When God is said not to know something, either it is said in reference to what he does not approve, that is, of something he does not acknowledge in discipline or in doctrines, as when it is said, ‘I do not know you,’ or in reference to that which it is useless to know and from which he draws an advantage for those who do not know. It is well accepted, therefore, that when it is said that the Father alone knows, it was so stated because it is he that makes the Son know, and when it is said that the Son does not know, it is so stated because he makes men not to know, that is, he does not avail them of a knowledge which it is useless for them to have” (Eighty-Three Diverse Questions 60 [inter A.D. 389-396]).

However, there are views that as man, he did not know or not need to know. It is a rather confusing subject and it is difficult to tell where theology ends and heresy begins:

archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9301frs.asp

I hope someone with more knowledge can chime in.

 

[lakotak]

Edit: I made this before your response and simply to impart more knowledge on the subject, not to chastise or prove anyone wrong. I am also confused on the subject and thought this might help. My emphasis is not meant to be chastising or rebuking:

He WOULD know. They are ONE GOD, not three separate gods. No knowledge is withheld from another, and Christ’s nature was not completely separate or confused (these are both heresies). Christ was likely speaking in terms that He did not determine the time, and/or He was not at liberty to divulge the information. It was not His place to ‘know’, so to speak. He knows all that the Father knows, but He does not KNOW (determine, reveal, decide) the time as the Father does.

From John Chrysostom:

" ‘Of that day and that hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven nor the Son, except the Father.’ By the saying ‘neither the angels’ he stopped their mouths, lest they seek to learn what even the angels did not know; and by the saying, ‘nor the Son’ he forbids them not only to learn but even to inquire. He refers this knowledge to the Father both to make the matter more awesome and to preclude their inquiring about it. If this is not the reason, and he really is ignorant of the day and the hour, when will he come to know it? At the same time we do? … He says, ‘When you do not expect it, he will come,’ because he wants them to be anxiously waiting and constantly engaged in virtuous practice. What he means is something like this: ‘If the generality of men knew when they were to die, they would strive earnestly only at that hour’ " (Homilies on the Gospel of Matthew 77:1 [A.D. 370]).

From Augustine:

“When God is said not to know something, either it is said in reference to what he does not approve, that is, of something he does not acknowledge in discipline or in doctrines, as when it is said, ‘I do not know you,’ or in reference to that which it is useless to know and from which he draws an advantage for those who do not know. It is well accepted, therefore, that when it is said that the Father alone knows, it was so stated because it is he that makes the Son know, and when it is said that the Son does not know, it is so stated because he makes men not to know, that is, he does not avail them of a knowledge which it is useless for them to have” (Eighty-Three Diverse Questions 60 [inter A.D. 389-396]).

However, there are views that as man, he did not know or not need to know. It is a rather confusing subject and it is difficult to tell where theology ends and heresy begins:

archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9301frs.asp

I hope someone with more knowledge can chime in.

The information that you have given has helped me a lot. Thank you as I have a better understanding of this than I did before.

 

[thesmiter1]

The information that you have given has helped me a lot. Thank you as I have a better understanding of this than I did before.

I am glad I could help. Another note: a priest friend of mine once imparted the knowledge that the Greek describing Christ’s nature and the Greek describing His person are different words that have specific meaning. It occurs to me that Greek meanings often get lost in translation.

Perhaps this should be asked in the ‘Ask an Apologist’ section, or searched there. This is certainly a question that could easily lead into heresy, and that is something not conducive to Truth. God is Truth. Thus, if it is not of God, we should make haste to eliminate it.

Here we go, it seems that this is the safest answer (from this site):

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=303187&highlight=i+do±know+the+hour

He knows but it is not His to reveal, or not useful to reveal, or He just doesn’t want to reveal it. We know God IS three Persons, but ONE GOD, so thus Jesus has His reasons for not revealing it, and it is most probably not out of ignorance.

 

[COPLAND_3]

catholic.com/quickquestions/does-the-church-teach-that-the-prophecy-of-revelation-201-10-is-being-fulfilled-now

I read the reply given by Jimmy Akin, and he answered it as well as it could ever be answered! As for that prophecy being fulfilled now, it is being fulfilled, but that passage from verse 1-10 are concerning a large period of time.

Verses 1-3 are concerning what happened 2000 years ago at the Passion, Satan was bound in the sense that he could no longer prevent the spreading of the Gospel to all nations. I know its hard to imagine but Satan was able to exercise more power before Christ, which allowed him to suppress God’s people to a small number in the Middle East.

Verse 4-6 is the period that we are living in now. The 1000 years is not a literal 1000 years but a large period of time that began at the Passion to the coming of the Antichrist at the End of the World.

Verses 7-10 is the time that begins prior to Judgment Day and the coming of the Antichrist, and then the Great Tribulation begins and Satan exercises all his power and persecutes the Church like never before. Then Jesus comes and Judgment Day happens.

I highly recommend my work that I did on the Aquinas Study Bible where the whole passage is dissected greatly sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/revelation/rev-1/rev-2/rev-3/rev-4/rev-5/rev-6/rev-7/rev-8/rev-9/rev-10/rev-11/rev-12/rev-13/rev-14/rev-15/rev-16/rev-17/rev-18/rev-19/rev-20

 

[runningdude]

Not a point for debate, but it has always seemed strange to me that with Jesus being God and one in being with the Father that he does not know when the end of time is. I have always been confused by this. Maybe ones more learned that I could shed some light on this.

Others have chimed in, but my thought has always been that this knowledge belongs solely to the Father, thus he chooses who it is revealed. Jesus, being one in being with Father, knows when the the world will end, but out of humble obedience does not reveal it to humanity.

I’ve liken it to a priest and the seal of the confessional. The priest knows the penitent’s sins, but does not reveal the sins to anyone because this knowledge belongs to Christ alone. Likewise, Christ does not reveal the hour the world will end because this knowledge belongs to the Father. It is sacred knowledge that we humans do no have a right to know.

 

[runningdude]

I’m with you insofar as “only” God the Father knows the time and the hour. But that’s a given known to all Faithful Catholics who should rightly practice their ardent Faith above all else.

Given certain Global events in the last 2000 years particularly in the last 500 years or so its reasonable to conclude that something is not right in this world profoundly from a societal moral stance, where there’s an overall decadence in how mankind as a whole has unsurped the Laws and Moral teachings of God and replaced them with unbridled behaviors that have nothing to do with God’s Commandments.

Methinks the overall Global Media and the Computer Age itself is owned and operated by Satan’s strong influences. Satan is well aware of mankind’s weaknesses. Every kind of Pride related the feeding off the Lusts of the Flesh and its senses. That is humanities great fall. All sins great and small are related to the glories of the Flesh.

…

I do agree that some issues are probably more severe now than in the past. Pornagraphy for instance is more accessible now than ever before in a million years of human history. However, some interrelated evils such as abortion, infanticide, prostitution and sexual slavery have existed for time immortal. I think it is therefore a fallacy to believe that we are significantly more decadent now than in the past. We are merely sinners now, and our grandparents and great grandparents were also sinners.

Further, and this is just my opinion of the matter, is that it is fallacious to attribute all sin and evil to Satan. We humans are just as capable of committing evil as the devil, and just as deserving of eternity in Hell were it now for the Grace of God available to us through the sacrament of penance. Satan once had a choice to accept God’s grace or futilely work against Him for all eternity. God has given us that choice, and the means to avoid Satan’s fate within our lifetimes.

To blame Satan for all the wrongs in the world is to open ourselves to discouragement. Christ has given mankind the gifts to avoid sin, but we sin anyways. It is not Satan who causes us to sin, but our own choices. To blame Satan causes us to loose hope, because Satan is far more powerful than ourselves. When we repent however, we accept responsibility for ours sins, and place our faith and confidence in an infinitely powerful God.

The world is full of evil deeds caused by evil men. Satan would love credit for these deeds, because it discourages our Faith. Without Faith in an infinitely powerful God, it is easy give up and participate in these evils. With faith, we know our choices matter, and can choose to live a virtuous life, and know that God has our backs.

The Father chooses not to tell us when the world will end, because he does not want us to despair. All evils in this world highlight how good our God is by contrast. In a blink of an eye, God could vanquish all evil men and all evil angels and leave only the repentant. But God wants all men to repent. There is no time limit save death, knowing the sun will rise the next day gives us more hope than knowing when the Son will return to judge us!

 

[mercytruth]

I read the reply given by Jimmy Akin, and he answered it as well as it could ever be answered! As for that prophecy being fulfilled now, it is being fulfilled, but that passage from verse 1-10 are concerning a large period of time.

Verses 1-3 are concerning what happened 2000 years ago at the Passion, Satan was bound in the sense that he could no longer prevent the spreading of the Gospel to all nations. I know its hard to imagine but Satan was able to exercise more power before Christ, which allowed him to suppress God’s people to a small number in the Middle East.

Verse 4-6 is the period that we are living in now. The 1000 years is not a literal 1000 years but a large period of time that began at the Passion to the coming of the Antichrist at the End of the World.

Verses 7-10 is the time that begins prior to Judgment Day and the coming of the Antichrist, and then the Great Tribulation begins and Satan exercises all his power and persecutes the Church like never before. Then Jesus comes and Judgment Day happens.

I highly recommend my work that I did on the Aquinas Study Bible where the whole passage is dissected greatly sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/revelation/rev-1/rev-2/rev-3/rev-4/rev-5/rev-6/rev-7/rev-8/rev-9/rev-10/rev-11/rev-12/rev-13/rev-14/rev-15/rev-16/rev-17/rev-18/rev-19/rev-20

Thanks for the recommendations. I will wait with my questions afterwards.

God’s peace

micah

 

[Linusthe2nd]

catholic.com/quickquestions/does-the-church-teach-that-the-prophecy-of-revelation-201-10-is-being-fulfilled-now

Catechism of the Catholic Church pgs 675,830,673, 680, 1060,671, 1041, 678

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

No one knows the time, only the Father. But since Christ’s coming we have been living in the end times. Some of the events of the Book of Revelation have already happened, others remain to be fulfilled, including the coming of the Antichrist, who will be a real man and other things. Benedict alluded to the end times in one of his books but he didn’t say much more. All the Church teaches formally is in the references above.