Della,We must take into consideration the whole of Sacred Tradition, the Bible as well as the teachings of Christ handed on to the Apostles, when asking questions of this kind.
God is the ruler of this world, but he allows Satan and his minions to roam it, tempting us to sin, and one day, when Christ returns, this will end.
How so? God has absolute dominion over the entire universe. Satan still has to answer to God. He may be the worst mid-level manager in history, but God is still the CEO.Della,
I disagree! I think scripture is quite clear that satan IS the ruler of this world…
Well, Satan obviously exercises some kind of usurped and tyrannical dominion over the world. However, St. Irenaeus argued that since Satan is the father of lies, the statement to which you refer is no evidence.The JW’s site scripture where Jesus was tempted in the desert as proof that Satan rules the world in that he offered it to Jesus as a temptation and Jesus was tempted. Would like some scripture to show otherwise - Satan does NOT RULE the world, is merely allowed to exist in the world. And also does anyone know of a “topic” driven guide to the Bible. Thanks s
Or maybe its my ability to clearly explain things…When the Bible approaches power to “Satan over the world” it should be spelled out that God has given him domain over unbelievers, and unbelievers alone, I thought the John 12 I quoted pointed this out clear enough.The posts by myfavoritemartin and Daniel Marsh are good examples of how a proof-texting approach to Scripture latches onto one aspect of revealed truth and ignores the rest, resulting in a radical distortion of the faith.
Edwin
I think your scriptural support is considerably weaker than was mine, care to teach on this with a little more detail so I can view your scriptural take on it?For a Scriptural response you would need to look at the abundant Scriptural references to God as the King who rules the whole earth. These are most prevalent in the Old Testament, but obviously this concept is implicit in the New Testament as well (1 Tim. 1:17 and 6:16; Jesus’ frequent parables comparing God to a king, etc.).
Edwin
i know this question wasn’t addressed to me but … how about the entire book of psalms for starters?I think your scriptural support is considerably weaker than was mine, care to teach on this with a little more detail so I can view your scriptural take on it?
I guess the question is, unbelievers are they in your opinion “under the dominion of God?” or satan?i know this question wasn’t addressed to me but … how about the entire book of psalms for starters?
in the new testament, the kingdom of heaven is usually opposed to the secular world which is certainly a place which is disordered in many ways since humanity was ejected from the garden of eden. however god has never entirely abandoned that world and he is present for those who look for him.I guess the question is, unbelievers are they in your opinion “under the dominion of God?” or satan?
Right on Ed!The text of the Bible is plain. We are either for Christ or we live in darkness. No, this does not mean that we automatically become the worst people imaginable but without God, without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we are still living in our sin. The devil then has the greatest influence over us. We end up serving him to some degree, and without Christ and the “full armor” of God, our spiritual defenses are lacking. I think it needs to be said very plainly that Jesus Christ is our salvation, without Him, no man comes to the Father. I am not speaking here about the final judgement which no man can make, but of the clear message Christ gives us to have salvation and eternal life.
God bless,
Ed
These verses, taken out of context or not, do not support your position. Anyone may be tempted to evil and fall for it–that is the way in which Satan rules. This is why we need to stay ever vigilant. It is why Jesus included in the prayer he taught his Apostles: “Deliver us from evil.” He was constantly telling them (and so us) to be on our guard. If it were not possible for Christians to sin and be lost he wouldn’t have been so adamant about it.Della,
I disagree! I think scripture is quite clear that satan IS the ruler of this world…You can be covered by the blood of the Lamb and protected from satan by being of the “Kingdom” being one of Christ born again children. Look at John 12…
30Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” 33He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
34The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ[f] will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”
35Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going. 36Put your trust in the light while you have it, so that you may become sons of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.
Actually, in all sadness, he does rule this world. It’s just that God is stronger. That’s why we have to be IN the world, but not OF it.The JW’s site scripture where Jesus was tempted in the desert as proof that Satan rules the world in that he offered it to Jesus as a temptation and Jesus was tempted. Would like some scripture to show otherwise - Satan does NOT RULE the world, is merely allowed to exist in the world. And also does anyone know of a “topic” driven guide to the Bible. Thanks s
newadvent.org/fathers/1701115.htmHence also He says not here, “My kingdom is not” in this world; but, “is not of this world.” And when He proved this by saying, “If my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews,” He says not, “But now is my kingdom not” here, but, “is not from hence.” For His kingdom is here until the end of the world, having tares intermingled therewith until the harvest; for the harvest is the end of the world, when the reapers, that is to say, the angels, shall come and gather out of His kingdom everything that offends; Matthew 13:38-41 which certainly would not be done, were it not that His kingdom is here. But still it is not from hence; for it only sojourns as a stranger in the world: because He says to His kingdom, “You are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.” They were therefore of the world, so long as they were not His kingdom, but belonged to the prince of this world. Of the world therefore are all mankind, created indeed by the true God, but generated from Adam as a vitiated and condemned stock; and there are made into a kingdom no longer of the world, all from thence that have been regenerated in Christ. For so did God rescue us from the power of darkness, and translate us into the kingdom of the Son of His love: Colossians 1:13 and of this kingdom it is that He says, “My kingdom is not of this world;” or, “My kingdom is not from hence.”
newadvent.org/fathers/120120.htmBut by the chain and prison-house of this interdict the devil is prohibited and restrained from seducing those nations which belong to Christ, but which he formerly seduced or held in subjection. For before the foundation of the world God chose to rescue these from the power of darkness, and to translate them into the kingdom of the Son of His love, as the apostle says. Colossians 1:13 For what Christian is not aware that he seduces nations even now, and draws them with himself to eternal punishment, but not those predestined to eternal life? And let no one be dismayed by the circumstance that the devil often seduces even those who have been regenerated in Christ, and begun to walk in God’s way. For “the Lord knows them that are His,” 2 Timothy 2:19 and of these the devil seduces none to eternal damnation. For it is as God, from whom nothing is hid even of things future, that the Lord knows them; not as a man, who sees a man at the present time (if he can be said to see one whose heart he does not see), but does not see even himself so far as to be able to know what kind of person he is to be. The devil, then, is bound and shut up in the abyss that he may not seduce the nations from which the Church is gathered, and which he formerly seduced before the Church existed. For it is not said “that he should not seduce any man,” but “that he should not seduce the nations”—meaning, no doubt, those among which the Church exists—“till the thousand years should be fulfilled,”—i.e., either what remains of the sixth day which consists of a thousand years, or all the years which are to elapse till the end of the world.
newadvent.org/fathers/0409.htmThe sun ceded to us the day of our redemption; hell re-transferred the right it had in us, and our covenant is in heaven; the everlasting gates were lifted up, that the King of Glory, the Lord of might, might enter in, after having redeemed man from earth, nay, from hell, that he might attain to heaven. What, now, are we to think of the man who strives against that glorious One, nay, slights and defiles His goods, obtained at so great a ransom—no less, in truth, than His most precious blood? It appears, then, that it is better to flee than to fall in value, if a man will not lay out for himself as much as he cost Christ. And the Lord indeed ransomed him from the angelic powers which rule the world—from the spirits of wickedness, from the darkness of this life, from eternal judgment, from everlasting death. But you bargain for him with an informer, or a soldier or some paltry thief of a ruler—under, as they say, the folds of the tunic—as if he were stolen goods whom Christ purchased in the face of the whole world, yes, and set at liberty. Will you value, then, this free man at any price, and possess him at any price, but the one, as we have said, it cost the Lord,—namely, His own blood? (And if not,) why then do you purchase Christ in the man in whom He dwells, as though He were some human property? No otherwise did Simon even try to do, when he offered the apostles money for the Spirit of Christ.
newadvent.org/fathers/230403.htmBut from men proceed wickedness, plots, deceits, slanders, assaults innumerable. In like manner on the part of the demons, “principalities, powers, the world-rulers of this darkness, spiritual hosts of wickedness.” Some of us are rejoicing, others grieving, both are deviations from the right course. But health and sickness (war against us). From what quarter will not man be falling into sin? Would you that I should tell you from the beginning, commencing even immediately from Adam? What took captive the first created? Pleasure, and eating, and the love of dominion. What the son who came next after him? Grudging and envy. What those in the time of Noah? Fleshly pleasures, and the evils issuing from them. What his son? Insolence and irreverence. What the Sodomites? Insolence, wantonness; and fullness of bread. But often even poverty has this effect. On this account a certain wise man said, “Give me neither poverty nor riches.” (Prov. xxx. 8.) However it is neither poverty nor riches, but the will that cannot use either of them. “Acknowledge,” he says, “that you pass through the midst of snares.” (Ecclus. ix. 13.)