Does the Holy Spirit guide Christians to truth?

[MT1926]

. I have thought I was Catholic my whole life but am questioning if I want to be part of the Catholic thinking and you are getting the brunt of it,

Blessed John Henry Newman wrote, “Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt.” He adds that a difficulty is not a doubt. The person with a difficulty says, “How can that be so?” whereas a person who doubts says, “That can’t be so!”

Seems to me he is talking to you here. You are questioning, there is nothing wrong with that. Questions are good because it shows me that you are getting serious about your faith. I would be more worried about the person who walks out the door without ever asking a single question. To me that is a person who is lead by their emotions and not by faith.

As for me getting the brunt of it, feel free to give me both barrels, I can take it. I would much rather you argue with me til the cows come home than to leave Christ’s Church over a misunderstanding.

Absolute truth is bent, read into, and redirected by many religions, Catholics for sure.

How would you know?

I don’t mean that disrespectfully, I’m asking you to think that statement through logically.

Jesus told Simon that he was the Rock that He would build His Church upon. He didn’t say you would build Jesus said I will build. Jesus also sent the Holy Spirit to guide HIS Church and said that He would be with HIS Church til the end of the age.

Think about that logically. We have two options here either Jesus meant what He said and is still guiding his Church in truth to this very day or didn’t mean what He said which means He left us on our own and we would have no way of knowing what the truth is.

Do you see where I’m going with this? How can you believe all religions bend the truth if there isn’t one Church, guided by Christ, that always taught the truth from the beginning until this very day, that shows you what the truth is to begin with.

I would recommend you try talking through some of these “bent, redirected and read into, absolute truths”. I would hate to see you leave over a misunderstanding.

Maybe start a thread or send me a PM.

God Bless

 

[Marp]

The definition of Peter is rock or stone. Was not Peter first to believe in a living God. Could his first to and strong belief been the reason he was named Peter.
Christ is the rock, the cornerstone. Would his church not be best built on all his Life and death ,eternal life than on a man who will sin as will his future popes. What sounds like a wise choice for God.

 

[Fauken]

Christ is the rock, the cornerstone. Would his church not be best built on all his Life and death ,eternal life than on a man who will sin as will his future popes. What sounds like a wise choice for God.

Does Peter being Pope remove Christ’s headship from His own Church? Of course not.

Why then does God bother with any of us since we’re sinners? Even though He died for us, still we defy and reject Him by our thoughts, words, and deeds. By your logic, Jesus should never have gone back to Heaven, He should have stayed on earth so that His weak and sinful Apostles wouldn’t mess up trying to spread His gospel. Do you think God is incapable of protecting His Church from sin or human weakness?

 

[Marp]

What I am pointing out is the fact that Christ is the rock we build our church on.

 

[Marp]

Why would the apostles traveled from Jerusalem to other parts of the world after the [crucifixion of Christ)Their main purpose was to spread the teachings of Christ. Some of them also founded the ApostoliC Seesand they led early Christians in their religious gatherings or in private homes (house churches). I do not see reference to them answering to Peter or to Catholic Church in Rome.

 

[MT1926]

The definition of Peter is rock or stone. Was not Peter first to believe in a living God. Could his first to and strong belief been the reason he was named Peter.

Sure but that doesn’t really change anything. No matter what the reason was Jesus chose Simon. This is the point often overlooked. Jesus didn’t choose some guy named Peter, He chose a guy named Simon and changed His name to Peter. God changing someone’s name has a greater meaning in the Bible. Think about Abraham.

Christ is the rock, the cornerstone.

Amen to that, no objections.

Would his church not be best built on all his Life and death ,eternal life than on a man who will sin as will his future popes. What sounds like a wise choice for God.

The way I see it is it’s not my call what God wants to do. Sure if Jesus decided not to ascend and build His Church on himself I’m sure we wouldn’t be having any arguements right now. But instead He chose to build it on a sinful man who denied him 3 times. Maybe He did it this way to show us that even the most stubborn of men can still be guided to the truth. Maybe He did it this way because like He says in John 20 to Thomas…blessed are those who haven’t seen yet still believe.

As for the sinful Popes, to me this is the greatest proof that the Catholic Church is being guided by the Holy Spirit. I’ve been a self employed business owner for 25 years and have run many charities and functions. If not for the Holy Spirit There is absolutely no way that those bad Popes shouldn’t have destroyed the Catholic Church from within. I’ve seen so many businesses fail from greed and corruption, The fact that the Catholic Church still stands after all of that corruption can only be a miracle of the Holy Spirit.

What I am pointing out is the fact that Christ is the rock we build our church on.

That’s not what Jesus says.

Jesus says Peter is the rock that He (Christ) builds a His Church on.

We are members of the Church and sure we are to evangelize but in the end you or I have no ability to convert someone to the faith. Only Christ can give them the grace necessary to come to the faith.

We can plant seeds, but it is God who makes them grow into the Church not us.

Not claiming I know what God should do, but knowing humans the way I do I really don’t think it would be a wise choice for Him to let us build the Church. Humans are so self centered we would end up with 100s if not 1000s of people claiming they know with absolute certainty that this is how a God wants it built.

I’ve been in business long enough to know if no one is in charge nothing ever gets done.

God Bless

 

[Marp]

Right and if that be the case is it ever made reference to by the apostles

 

[MT1926]

I do not see reference to them answering to Peter or to Catholic Church in Rome.

Well Peter didn’t end up in Rome until the end of his ministry so if you are wanting Bible alone proof (which is very unbiblical) you aren’t going to find it. However, many of the Church Fathers speak of the authority of the Catholic Church if you want I can find you some links to read.

As for Peter being in charge here is a really good article about Peter written by Tim Staples, who use to be a die hard anti-Catholic.

Who Was at the Helm in the Book of Acts? Peter? James? | Catholic Answers Magazine

You could also read Galatians 1. St. Paul is having troubles with the Galatians because they are acussing him of proclaiming a gospel that is of human origin. He goes into a defense of his gospel, that it is the gospel from a Christ and not of human origin. In verse 16 and 17 he tells them how what he teaches comes from direct revelation over a 3 year period from God.

Then he goes on to give them more proof…after three years did Paul go up to Jerusalem and spend a fortnight with Peter (1:18-24).

Paul even assured his readers that he was not lying about this (1:20)

Why was this point so important to double down and say I swear I’m not lying about this? The only logical explaination is because Peter was the one to see. He was the head apostle, and so Paul wanted to confer with him and show his readers that what he taught was approved by Peter.

Hope this helps,

God Bless

 

[MT1926]

Right and if that be the case is it ever made reference to by the apostles

Mary, you can jump on me all you want but you gotta at least try to help me out a little here. I broke your post up into 4 sections can you maybe point to which portion of the 4 paragraphs I wrote that you would like a reference from the Apostles?

God Bless

 

[tweedlealice]

Blessings,
The church of Jesus Christ is mostly found in Catholicism. It’s very old. Our Lesders weren’t always Holy. The thread of Jesus’s TRUTH is central to Catholicism. But, man has contaminated some of our History. That caused some other denominations to be created. Interpretation of the Bible has caused some divisions. Like Calvinistic Predisposition. God knows ALL! God knows WHO will go to heaven. It’s predetermined. This has many problemareas of thought. Why should I try. If I’m going, I’m going! If I’m not, I’m not. Luther saw problems. He was a monk. He worked w the church on his concerns. “I HAVE GONE AS FAR AS I CAN GO! I CAN GO NO FURTHER!” Hence, the Lutheran Church.
Some truths are convenient to adopt. Others we let slide by. We don’t always listen to the Holy Spirit.
When tasing the BIBLE, one shouldn’t take one sentence to make a theological belief. It takes the paragraph or chapter to understand the meaning.
Why? Christians aren’t perfect. We are under construction. Depends on when you see us on our journeys.
Enjoy your walk w Jesus. Keep your eyes on Him & not on man.
Google the Serenity Prayer. Full version
Have a BLESSED NEW YEAR.
Tweedlealice
John 3:16. Ephesians 3: 14-21. I love Ephesians…

 

[Marp]

Thank you ! Peter was definitely a rock to the other apostles. The future popes and new rules to follow and added beliefs, Is not good stuff. A lot of Catholics are so fast to use that sentence of since Peter means rock anything goes that is Catholic.

 

[MT1926]

The future popes and new rules to follow and added beliefs, Is not good stuff.

This is a very vague statement, not sure what you are referring to.

Could you maybe point to something that is “not good stuff” and why you believe it is contradictory to our faith.

A lot of Catholics are so fast to use that sentence of since Peter means rock anything goes that is Catholic.

I’m doing my best to try to explain as much as I can in the short amount of space given in these posts. If you are minimizing everything I am writing to come across as me saying well Peter is the Rock and anything goes in the Catholic Church. Then either I am not explaining what I believe well enough or you are deliberately ignoring everything I am saying.

I’ve come across your vagueness in the past, the anger and unwillingness to even have a conversation or answer questions. It usually comes from a person who has been proselytized by anti-Catholics. This person has been pounced on so much by the anti-Catholic who continually beats the person over the head with all of their anti-Catholic misinformation and half truths. The person ends up so torn apart that they no longer know what to believe. They no longer have the strength to search for the truth and only want to go with the flow and do what is easiest and least painful. However, at the same time they are so hurt and torn apart at what they have been told and since they are incapable of arguing with the person who is proselytizing them, their only recourse is to act out in anger against their fellow Catholics about how wrong the Catholic Church has become.

I mean no ill will or disrespect, but I have seen it so many times in the past. You are hurting I get that. However, your vague statements are proof that you don’t know what you think you know and are only repeating what someone else has beat you over the head with.

I’m here for you when you are reading to talk and work through you anger and misunderstandings that someone has convinced you are true.

In the meantime, I will pray for you until you are ready.

God Bless

PS. I love Chicago, lived there for four years while completing my Doctorate in Chiropractic at National University in Lombard.

 

[Vico]

The Holy Spirit would, according to John 16:13. Then why are there so many Christian Churches and denominations?

Is there a some truths exist? If not, most part of called Christians are not guided by the Holy Spirit? Or what. Why.

CDF 2007, responses to questions:

It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them. [Cf. John Paul II, Encyclical Letter Ut unum sint , 11.3: AAS 87 [1995-II] 928.]

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...ith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

Catechism

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism: …

820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279

 

[Ryan1]

The Catholic Church IS the Church Christ founded, not “mostly.”

Four marks of the Church: one, holy, catholic, apostolic.

 

[Marp]

Thank you and I appreciate your gentle ways. I am typing on my iPhone and sometimes the wrong letters show up. It is easier to type a couple sentences So that is part of the reason I sound angry. About 7 years ago my life changed drasticilly. I could not take credit I know God did for me what I could not do for myself. I was miserable, my brain would not stop. My miseries in my life had taken control of who I was my actions were going quickly downhill. I will explain later but This poem rang true to my plight and I love it. The Hound of Heaven by Francis Thompson (read by Tom O'Bedlam) - YouTube Don’t think I am crazy.

 

[toddy]

“When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father”, Jesus says.

If any force prevents then running to Jesus for protection. This force is afraid of the Lord but is not afraid of us. [God’s teaching by Saint Faustina]

 

[MT1926]

My miseries in my life had taken control of who I was my actions were going quickly downhill. I will explain later but This poem rang true to my plight and I love it. https://youtu.be/V6hNu8U7NSc

I’m not real big on poetry, it doesn’t really speak to me. However, I found it to be an interesting poem.

I don’t really think you are crazy it more seems to me that you are lost and scared right now.

I never heard of Francis Thompson before so I did a little research on him.

I found it intriguing that The Hound of Heaven is about the speaker running from God in order to maintain his worldly pleasures. But God pursues him to help him find the right path back to God.

In the same way Francis Thompson grew up a Catholic then ran from God, ended up staying away as he pursued his worldly pleasures of his opium habit, but in the end he returned to God. Before he died at the age of 48, from TB, he received all of the Catholic Sacraments while in the care of the Sisters of St. John and St. Elizabeth.

In essence the man who wrote the poem returned to Christ within the Catholic Church and the Eucharist.

Wasn’t sure if you were aware of that.

God Bless

 

[toddy]

It is very easy to recognize them, because their nature is threatening or deceitful

They can also cast their word/s into writings or verbals, then the little voices cover up by praise! I do not believe any voices say but watch what they do…

 

[Marp]

Thank you for your kind thoughts. I have been listening to wonderful apologetics and they ask questions. I was trying to copy cat. As far as Francis Thompson, It was actually his plight and Gods pursuit. I am a new person because of Christ. I have and stil do live my life where my thoughts are constant with my Lord and savior. He has not left me. Just as we might not understand others not accepting Christ you do not understand my not accepting all doctrine in the Catholic Church. It divides Christians. God wants us to be closer and find unity not concentrate on our difference or which one is right. 1 Corinthians 10. 10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. Our world is being overcome with Athiesm and eastern religions. We have a duty. Yes I am disappointed at the Catholic Church, for many reasons. I don’t think I need to list. You are inspirational and I appreciate your quest. But careful we never read the Bible or shared the wisdom. God speaks to us through his word, that is sacred. . Lots of us are reading.

 

[steve-b]

So the answer is the free will?

Then, why most Christians who are baptized are still getting deceived by devil? I’m saying this because they’re choosing the devil instead of the Holy Spirit according to these answers. Or will of man not devil. Why didn’t baptism change them?
They should have changed according to John 3:3-5, and the Paul’s epistles. How can anyone who reborn by the water and the spirit still being the slave of devil or man?

Satan sifts, he divides. That’s what he does. He’s relentless. Paul wrote specifically , and condemned schism, sedition, dissensions, heresy etc etc. He’s writing to the Church in his letters. He’s writing to people then who are already baptized. Why would the warnings and condemnations be necessary to write about, if what was being condemned, was not possible to happen as a result of baptism? Truth is division was already happening with people he’s writing to AND Paul is giving the warning against that by also giving the dire consequences if those who divide don’t return before they die… Satan sifts/divides us, and people are constantly giving into the sifting… Satan doesn’t give up. THAT’S why we are to fight back, and persevere…till the end of our lives.. God does NOT override our free will that He gave all of us and expects us to use properly.

Since Jesus said the HS doesn’t speak on His own authority, but takes from Jesus and passes that on, then we know the HS doesn’t lead anyone into division from the only Church Jesus established on Peter and those in union with Peter.