Does the Lord condone polygamy?

[why_me]

Hi

So I really think that why me is not an LDS Mormon but a Mormon from the FLDS Church (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints).

Best wishes,
Esdra

The FLDS are but one polygamous sect that has gotten attention because of their lifestyle and secrecy. However, there are other polygamous mormons who are independent of the flds. They practice polygamy because they believe god still commands it. They have happy families and well adjusted children and live respectful lives in Utah. And they make good neighbors too.

This is a five part episode about mormon polygamy by Ann Wilder, a fundalmentalist mormon polygamist but not FLDS. Now this is her interpretation and not necessarily fact.

mormonstories.org/podcast/MormonStories-042-AnneWildePart1.mp3

Now this is part one of a five part series which can be found here:

mormonstories.org/?page_id=102

It begins on episode 42 of the mormonstory list. The list includes many interesting interviews of mormons, exmormons etc.

 

[why_me]

Ya, especially since he claims to be a lector at Mass.

I have no idea if people are listening to the readings. I give a good reading but as to whether or not people are listening I have no idea. I have read some humdingers during the first readings in the old testament.

Defending mormons against slander is no problem for a lector. It would be more of a problem if I carried bitterness, hatred, bigotry etc in my heart.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I have no idea if people are listening to the readings. I give a good reading but as to whether or not people are listening I have no idea. I have read some humdingers during the first readings in the old testament.

Defending mormons against slander is no problem for a lector. It would be more of a problem if I carried bitterness, hatred, bigotry etc in my heart.

I am skeptical. Most Catholic Parishes don;t allow Mormons to be lectors

 

[KathleenGee]

I have asked you, why me, before…you corrected me about not having the Old Testament when in fact it is read at Mass. I said I have been a lector for weekend Masses…

So with your justification of polygamy, and not coming straight out with Rebecca, and you don’t identify your association, are you a Catholic being drawn to Mormonism? Or are you a Mormon who attends a Catholic church, and has offered to do the readings at Mass…you couldn’t do that without being a Catholic.

What is your association?

 

[twopekinguys]

I am skeptical. Most Catholic Parishes don;t allow Mormons to be lectors

I agree.

On another thread, I asked him to bring up his “attendance” issues with his Catholic Bishop to see what he says about it, but he didn’t think that was a good idea. He thought the priest would be better.

I told him that if the priest isn’t doing his job in correcting him, the Bishop would be the next step. I even offered to take his information to his Bishop, but he never responded.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

From what I’ve read Smith sounds more like a swindler and gold chaser than anything else.

Smith and his associate wrote the Book of Mormon. Why did it take two of them to do it? LDS like to stress Smith did not have that good of an education so could not have written up the Book of Mormon. Well maybe his “associate” did or maybe Smith did have the brains to write that stuff up.

Isn’t it awfully convenient that in the Book of Mormon it says a prophet will come later named Joseph who was actually Joseph Smith? Ok, Smith produces the Book of Mormon and it happens to say Smith is a Prophet. I don’t buy it.

Whenever he gets visited by an angle it seems he’s with one of this “associates” and not in public. More made up things? Points to that.

There’s a story when Smith was writing the Book of Mormon some pages were lost or stolen. The Joseph Smith manual has a real lame excuse for all this. Some pages get lost or stolen. Instead of praying to God and having God tell Smith what to write again, exactly like the lost pages, Smith decides not to rewrite the pages at all. He knew if he did they would not exactly match the pages that were stolen. He was worried once he published the Book the person with the other pages would use that to attack the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. Smith knew he couldn’t make up those pages again exactly like ones that were stolen. So he didn’t even try. This is so lame.

Isn’t it awfully convenient Smith produces the Book of Mormon; it says Smith is a prophet, and then he decides multiple wives are ok? Connect the dots one by one and you get a picture of a deceitful man.

The LDS church still believe in polygamy, that is a fact. They keep it hush hush. One LDS woman told me in the next life women will not be jealous so they will be able to live with their husband having multiple wives.

It does seem like the ultimate goal is eternal sex. They stress God has a body like us, or we have a body like him. We can become Gods. We can then populate worlds with our spirit children. Yippee for the exulted men - they get to mate for eternity!

African Americans could not hold the Priesthood until the government threatened to take away their tax exempt status?

Many LDS are born in the church and they know no other way. I think some female converts join the church for husbands. I know some men who joined the church because they married LDS women. Maybe they believe it all but when I’ve asked them they give the same stock reply – there was something missing in my life and this church was it. Maybe true but they just don’t say it with any conviction.

I know a woman whose grandmother was LDS. She took her granddaughter to services as a teen. She found an LDS boyfriend and joined the church and has stayed ever since, thru five marriages. That’s another way they get suckered into the church. Also teen girls get crushes on the young missionaries.

They stress Joseph Smith to a high degree. They say over and over if Joseph Smith is a fraud then the church is a fraud. Why put so much emphasis on a fraud is something I don’t understand. They even sing a hymn or two to Smith. One is Thank God for a Prophet.

One LDS told me the reason we are on earth is to have babies!

I’ve read on one anti-lds site that might be true - the LDS church is for people who think they are smarter than God.

 

[why_me]

So with your justification of polygamy, and not coming straight out with Rebecca, and you don’t identify your association, are you a Catholic being drawn to Mormonism? Or are you a Mormon who attends a Catholic church, and has offered to do the readings at Mass…you couldn’t do that without being a Catholic.

What is your association?

First I said no where in this thread that I condone polygamy. Other people said so. I only provided what was read at Mass on June 13th. And in that reading, the lord condones polygamy. I started a thread because certain catholics on the mormon polygamy thread were coming down hard on the mormons. But mormons have always claimed that polygamy was practiced in the old testament and the lord condoned it. And this that is the case, there is nothing to say that He would not begin the practice again in his restored church.

That was my point. I was born catholic and attend mass. But I do not like how certain catholics on this forum treat the mormons that are here and show such disrespect for the mormon religion. Such posters are not being good representatives of the catholic faith.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Actually, they are not what YOU consider good reps of our faith…but I follow Christ…I do not follow you. And I doubt you are Catholic. The Catholic Church teaches Joe was a false prophet…yet you defend Joe.

ac·qui·esce
Pronunciation: \ˌa-kwē-ˈes
: to accept, comply, or submit tacitly or passively

You acquiesce to the LDS faith…that puts you in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church

 

[zaffiroborant]

First I said no where in this thread that I condone polygamy. Other people said so. I only provided what was read at Mass on June 13th. And in that reading, the lord condones polygamy. I started a thread because certain catholics on the mormon polygamy thread were coming down hard on the mormons. But mormons have always claimed that polygamy was practiced in the old testament and the lord condoned it. And this that is the case, there is nothing to say that He would not begin the practice again in his restored church.

That was my point. I was born catholic and attend mass. But I do not like how certain catholics on this forum treat the mormons that are here and show such disrespect for the mormon religion. Such posters are not being good representatives of the catholic faith.

The following whole post of yours condones polygyny, but in particular the bolded part.

The FLDS are but one polygamous sect that has gotten attention because of their lifestyle and secrecy. However, there are other polygamous mormons who are independent of the flds. They practice polygamy because they believe god still commands it. They have happy families and well adjusted children and live respectful lives in Utah. And they make good neighbors too.

This is a five part episode about mormon polygamy by Ann Wilder, a fundalmentalist mormon polygamist but not FLDS. Now this is her interpretation and not necessarily fact.

mormonstories.org/podcast/MormonStories-042-AnneWildePart1.mp3

Now this is part one of a five part series which can be found here:

mormonstories.org/?page_id=102

It begins on episode 42 of the mormonstory list. The list includes many interesting interviews of mormons, exmormons etc.

There is more than enough in the NT to show that polygyny is **not ** a Christian practice, that it is adultery and God of course would never institute adultery. Polygyny, was instituted by man (like slavery), it was tolerated to a point in time by God and then repudiated by Christ.

Oh and some of the highlights from the first link provided to mormon stories episode 42, it is okay to marry other women even if your current wife is adamantly opposed to it, you simply do it behind her back, also the legal age of marriage applies only to the first “legal” wife after that laws don’t apply.

The first pod cast in "Anne’s Story is just sad, some of the points in the podcast:

my husband would come into town sometimes, on weekends

I like my space, independence, time with kids one on one, girlfriends

if my parents knew it would have broken their hearts, didn’t tell them for twenty years. Didn’t tell long time friends they thought I was a gay divorcee

to support a large family sometimes some of the wives will work or the older children

If my “husband” and I went to the grocery store and I saw someone I knew, my “husband” knew to just walk on and pretend we weren’t together.

We didn’t go places where we thought we’d be recognized by someone else.

told nine year old daughter about her “marriage” but cautioned her not to talk about it.

What kind of “marriage” is described here??? I see nothing to brag about it is simply dismal.

 

[KathleenGee]

Why me,

Thanks for identifying yourself. But put religious beliefs aside, polygamy is not good for society, it is impoverishing…I think the people gave you enough evidence of why it is not allowed.

There are beliefs in Mormonism that I find, how should I say it, just impossible to believe in, and so I don’t get into dialogues. I will ask a question or make a comment, but every time I hear a response, it just leaves me lost. Don’t know where to go with it, and it doesn’t sit well with me as truth.

Alot of conjecturing came from just what Christ did after His resurrection. The focus now was not Him, His mission was completed. What was happening was the preparation for the coming of the Holy Spirit to the Apostles and the beginning of the universal church.

Just because the Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by the Lord, no individual in it has a monopoly on holiness…this is the problem people have. Or they are taken back by not understanding the difference between the Tradition and small ecclesial traditions.

But Catholicism is not constructed to be condemning of a class of people. Mormonism not only has unpalatable beliefs in many things, but also its construct is condemnation of all Christianity as well. So it is setting itself up.

I try to be respectable to Mormons. I have always said those I have met I like. As far as their citizenship and neighborliness goes in respecting me even though I am Catholic, I am appreciative and have great respect for them.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

I view polygamy this way - back in the time of the OT, that was in the beginning of civilization. Even if the OT is all true, mostly true, little true, or not true, it’s still a long time ago. The most important thing on their mind was staying alive and continuing the bloodline. It was a constant struggle to live day to day back then. So perhaps that is why polygamy was allowed and needed. But as civilization advanced there was less and less a need for that. By the time of Christ there was no need for it.

It’s a little scary reading speeches from the LDS leaders form the late 1800’s and early 1900’s and how they strongly defend polygamy.

In grade school I was told over and over how tough it was to live in the Americas in the really old days - 1700’s to 1900. People often died in their 30’s. That’s why the girls were married at an earlier age than now - they really couldn’t wait for a girl to be eighteen or twenty three or thirty five, she might be dead at twenty-five!

God didn’t tell those Americans to practice polygamy back then when you think they would actually need it. People died often at an early age. When out of eight children three might die after childbirth, two might die before age two, the other two might make it to adulthood. That’s not good odds. I could see the need, maybe, for polygamy back then. But did God come down and tell them to practice it? Did God come down and tell Abraham Lincoln to practice it? Nope. Polygamy returns on the words of Joseph Smith.

 

[why_me]

I view polygamy this way - back in the time of the OT, that was in the beginning of civilization.

But did God come down and tell them to practice it? Did God come down and tell Abraham Lincoln to practice it? Nope. Polygamy returns on the words of Joseph Smith.

Polygamy was practiced back in the Old Testament and the lord gave david his master’s wives for his bossom. That is quite a happening. Catholics have criticised mormons for practicing polygamy without recognizing their own Mass readings that condone it. That was my point. Since it is in the OT, we can never be sure that the lord did not command it again for his restored church. The mormons would say yes.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I view polygamy this way - back in the time of the OT, that was in the beginning of civilization. Even if the OT is all true, mostly true, little true, or not true, it’s still a long time ago. The most important thing on their mind was staying alive and continuing the bloodline. It was a constant struggle to live day to day back then. So perhaps that is why polygamy was allowed and needed. But as civilization advanced there was less and less a need for that. By the time of Christ there was no need for it.

It’s a little scary reading speeches from the LDS leaders form the late 1800’s and early 1900’s and how they strongly defend polygamy.

In grade school I was told over and over how tough it was to live in the Americas in the really old days - 1700’s to 1900. People often died in their 30’s. That’s why the girls were married at an earlier age than now - they really couldn’t wait for a girl to be eighteen or twenty three or thirty five, she might be dead at twenty-five!

God didn’t tell those Americans to practice polygamy back then when you think they would actually need it. People died often at an early age. When out of eight children three might die after childbirth, two might die before age two, the other two might make it to adulthood. That’s not good odds. I could see the need, maybe, for polygamy back then. But did God come down and tell them to practice it? Did God come down and tell Abraham Lincoln to practice it? Nope. Polygamy returns on the words of Joseph Smith.

We need to distinguish tolerance from approval. God may have allowed polygamy to exist during OT times, that is, He didn’t interfere with a cultural practice of the time. That doesn’t equal approval.

By the time of Jesus it was made very clear. Jesus said marriage was between a man and a woman and existed until one of them passed away. No plural marriage. No divorce.

Since the time of Jesus both Muslims and Mormons have re-instituted polygamy and both faiths were begun by supposed visitations by angels, which St. Paul clearly warned would be false:

Galatians Chapter 1 (New American Bible):
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!
9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!

It is clear from the New Testament that both the writings of Mohammed (sp?) and the writings of Joseph Smith should be rejected as false. We were given this warning and we ignore it at our peril. Mohammed and Smith are false prophets, they are not of God and St. Paul clearly warned about the information they claimed to receive. The “angels” they claimed to receive information from were clearly not from God. No doubt St. Paul was inspired to give this warning because God exists out of time. Why neither Mormons nor Muslims can see this is beyond me, since both faith put some credence into at least some parts of Christianity.

Bottomline: 21st Century (as well as 19th & 20th Century) polygamy is not of God. It is the work of men satisfying their personal desires.

 

[twopekinguys]

We need to distinguish tolerance from approval. God may have allowed polygamy to exist during OT times, that is, He didn’t interfere with a cultural practice of the time. That doesn’t equal approval.

By the time of Jesus it was made very clear. Jesus said marriage was between a man and a woman and existed until one of them passed away. No plural marriage. No divorce.

Since the time of Jesus both Muslims and Mormons have re-instituted polygamy and both faiths were begun by supposed visitations by angels, which St. Paul clearly warned would be false:

It is clear from the New Testament that both the writings of Mohammed (sp?) and the writings of Joseph Smith should be rejected as false. We were given this warning and we ignore it at our peril. Mohammed and Smith are false prophets, they are not of God and St. Paul clearly warned about the information they claimed to receive. The “angels” they claimed to receive information from were clearly not from God. No doubt St. Paul was inspired to give this warning because God exists out of time. Why neither Mormons nor Muslims can see this is beyond me, since both faith put some credence into at least some parts of Christianity.

Bottomline: 21st Century (as well as 19th & 20th Century) polygamy is not of God. It is the work of men satisfying their personal desires.

You’re right.

Condoning is not the same as tolerating.

Do we think that God condones murder? No, but he is evidently tolerating it at this point.

What do we expect when someone posting on this thread say God does shady things?

 

[MelanieAnne]

What do we expect when someone posting on this thread say God does shady things?

OK, but please, let’s not “go there”, OK?

 

[KathleenGee]

Why me…

Catholics who complain about Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ’s past stand in polygamy are being Catholic…considering the rivalry that is there.

The whole construct of Catholicism is not anti-Mormon. The construct of Catholicism, is that Christ lived, was crucified and died, and rose on the third day. It is about Jesus Christ, what He taught us, His sacraments, the model of His life. Christ spoke of adultery in the heart, how the marriage is to last until death. That is what we Catholics were taught.

We are not Jews. We did not have the 600 plus laws and regulations of Jewish life. But we hold onto the 10 commandments. And we accept Jesus as our savior and redeemer and through the sacraments and decalogue these are the only connection we have with Judaism. Through Jesus Christ, we cooperate in making all things new and restored…with Jesus Christ, the Alpha and Omega.

But we are to hold Mormons in love. We can rightfully disagree, but hold them in charity.

 

[Angel7]

I think the point of this thread was to ask this question.

I’m curious to about this.

If The Lord is against polygamy, why would He give David his “wives”.
Why would He give King David more than 1 wife?

I think this was the original question of the thread.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!

 

[scipio337]

I think the point of this thread was to ask this question.

I’m curious to about this.

If The Lord is against polygamy, why would He give David his “wives”.
Why would He give King David more than 1 wife?

I think this was the original question of the thread.

May The Lord Our God Bless You All!

As Christ said, maybe “because of the hardness of his heart”? If you read the rest of the passage, God later takes those wives away.

POLYGYNY often results in more problems than good in the OT. And I’m having a VERY difficult time where it is condoned, or even commanded by God.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Wow, even Emma Smith left the church for the reformed church. Sounds like Young turned against her. What a bunch of “saints.” lol.

 

[why_me]

Wow, even Emma Smith left the church for the reformed church. Sounds like Young turned against her. What a bunch of “saints.” lol.

Emma did not leave the church, the church left her. She didn’t want to go to utah. Also, she was no fan of polygamy and the saints were still polygamous. Emma when asked to get involved with the lds church again, replied that she experienced too much pain to do so. She lost her husband and brother in law and lived in constant fear of mobs when she was married to joseph smith. With the reorganized church, she was asked much later and she agreed but…she was not that active in it but her son joseph smith III became its first prophet.

Emma after her husband’s murder continued to teach her children from the bible and the book of mormon and that fact speaks much about the book of mormon. She did not think the book a fraud.

Brigham and Emma did not get along and words were exchanged when he was in Utah and she was in Nauvoo but much of this was based or he said, she said and rumor.

It was only recently that the ancestors of Young and Emma made up and let bygones be bygones.