Does the Lord condone polygamy?

[Esdra]

The sad part is, what you are seeing in the FLDS comminities was going on in LDS communities, up until 1904 (when the practice was really bannned), and would still be going on today, if it weren’t for a very convenient “revelation” when faced with losing church property.

Yes, that’s really sad, indeed.

This is the reason why I like the Community of Christ (RLDS Church) best of all Mormon Churches (especially since they are “liberal Mormons” who are also outside the US. As far as I know there are others in the US only [also “liberals”] - However not sure about it…).
They rejected polygyny from the beginning Emma Smith and her Son Joseph Smith III had split from the Utah Church.

Esdra

 

[Esdra]

But then, we’re not the ones harboring Roman Polanski now are we.

Sorry, don’t really get it…

I don’t really get what your statement has to do with the statement you quoted from me!

I just wanted to say that such sects would never be tolareted in Europe - at least not churches like FLDS where everybody knows what’s actually happening here. You know what I mean?
And for me this has to do with your definition of “freedom of choice” - I mean it’s a good thing, no question about it - But I think it also has its limits.

Esdra

 

[why_me]

The sad part is, what you are seeing in the FLDS comminities was going on in LDS communities, up until 1904 (when the practice was really bannned), and would still be going on today, if it weren’t for a very convenient “revelation” when faced with losing church property.

Not quite but nice try at a comparison. Mormons were not living on a compound but among non-members in cities and towns. Also, there were no such reports of general child abuse. You need to read up on the practice and its history.

 

[why_me]

Reading the Brodie book, I feel sorry for Emma Smith’s father. To see a daughter get wrapped up into something like that. Sad.

Her father? Well, he was no fan of Joseph Smith but on the other hand there are a lot of fathers who do approve of their son in law. But emma loved JS and believed her husband to be a prophet. As she said, if Joseph wrote the book of mormon she would have known about it. And I believe her since she was around at that time. She was no fool.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Her father? Well, he was no fan of Joseph Smith but on the other hand there are a lot of fathers who do approve of their son in law. But emma loved JS and believed her husband to be a prophet. As she said, if Joseph wrote the book of mormon she would have known about it. And I believe her since she was around at that time. She was no fool.

exactly. She was no fool. And she had a man who could get people to build her a house and treat her like a queen. Why in the world would she tell the truth about Joe?

 

[scipio337]

Not quite but nice try at a comparison. Mormons were not living on a compound but among non-members in cities and towns. Also, there were no such reports of general child abuse. You need to read up on the practice and its history.

Joseph Smith married a 13 year old.

The Reed Smoot hearings didn’t reveal LDS exclusive communities in Mexico, still practicing plural marriages (within the authority of the LDS church)?
why me:

Conclusion: polygamy could have been restored by god and the mormons were perfectly in the right to practice it and claim it was a commandment from god. Knowing the god of the OT, it would not be impossible for him to do so.

By that same logic, the archangel Gabriel could have appeared to Mohammed, declared the Gospels to be wrong, and that Christ wasn’t really crucified, but escaped at the last minute, and had his stunt-double stand in.

I’m also still wondering, why me, in the context of your comment,

In the usa, people should be free to practice their faith but in the mormon case, they were not free to do so.

if you support gay marriage, as there are some faiths that accept such as valid.

 

[Returning_Home]

Joseph Smith married a 13 year old.

The Reed Smoot hearings didn’t reveal LDS exclusive communities in Mexico, still practicing plural marriages (within the authority of the LDS church)?

There’s a point of clarification needed here: Mormonism, like Catholicism, has had two major schisms. The first was over who would lead the church after the murder of Joseph Smith and the second was over the practice of polygamy.

On occasion, a mainstream LDS polygamist will surface and they’re usually excommunicated posthaste, but they’re the rule and not the exception. While the church toes the line on polygamy today it’s easy to see how even garden-variety members are confused by the ‘we-don’t-practice-polygamy-but-we-still-believe-in-it-wink-wink’ position. It’s much like the military’s ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy.

The FLDS has nothing to do with the LDS other than they use the BOM and D&C. From what I’ve read, they believe that the church fell into error after it renounced polygamy. They have their own prophets and apostles, too. With Warren Jeffs in prison now, they will go to great lengths to keep a very low profile.

There were, at one time, somewhere around a hundred different splinter groups all originating with Mormonism as a starting point.

 

[Returning_Home]

Not quite but nice try at a comparison. Mormons were not living on a compound but among non-members in cities and towns. Also, there were no such reports of general child abuse. You need to read up on the practice and its history.

Unfortunately, you’re wrong again here. Polygamy was actively practiced among Utah Mormons until the then-prophet Joseph F. Smith was brought up on polygamy charges. He plead guilty in 1904 and issued the “Second Manifesto.” Why? Because he’d fathered 11 children after the first Manifesto.

Your position on this clearly shows that the church has been thoroughly deceptive when teaching its own history. Does that sound like the church lead by Jesus Christ?

 

[TikiTokiguy]

exactly. She was no fool. And she had a man who could get people to build her a house and treat her like a queen. Why in the world would she tell the truth about Joe?

True. Smith was her husband, of course she’s going to support him. Particularly when the Book of Mormon and church brings in the money to build her a house and buy food and pay off the bills Joseph Smith’s dad and brothers owed.

Smith was coming up with revelations like crazy. I particularly liked it when he went to the east on a gold hunt. He gave a revelation from God that supported his wasteful gold hunt! With a history like Smith’s would it be a shock if he brought back polygamy just to satisfy his and mans lust? Sure. And that’s what he did.

I love this quote I just read in the Brody book by Warren Parrish who once looked at Smith and Rigdon as gods - “…They lie by revelation, run away by revelation, and if they do not mend their ways, I fear they will at last be damned by revelation.”

 

[Returning_Home]

That’s a very intersting post. Thank you.

You bet. I’m happy to provide all of my source material if you’re interested. Just send me a PM.

There are a lot of misconceptions about Mormonism. Some are assumptions, misunderstandings, and others are blatant lies. Mormons themselves are responsible for some of them too, because the church lies to them and they simply repeat it, assuming that it’s true.

That’s the reason that, if you follow my posts, most times, Mormons won’t respond at all. Why? Because they’ve been conditioned to think in one linear mode and they can’t process anything that doesn’t conform to that standard. They will revise time and space, history and fact to make a square peg fit into a round hole.

One Mormon even told me recently that my posts didn’t deserve a response. That’s funny since I’m operating under the assumption that they’re right and then making clear the problems that extend from that point by using their own texts.

 

[Returning_Home]

True. Smith was her husband, of course she’s going to support him. Particularly when the Book of Mormon and church brings in the money to build her a house and buy food and pay off the bills Joseph Smith’s dad and brothers owed.

Smith was coming up with revelations like crazy. I particularly liked it when he went to the east on a gold hunt. He gave a revelation from God that supported his wasteful gold hunt! With a history like Smith’s would it be a shock if he brought back polygamy just to satisfy his and mans lust? Sure. And that’s what he did.

I love this quote I just read in the Brody book by Warren Parrish who once looked at Smith and Rigdon as gods - “…They lie by revelation, run away by revelation, and if they do not mend their ways, I fear they will at last be damned by revelation.”

You also have to read between the lines of Mormon history; basically, Smith was a bum who didn’t have a job. That was one of the reasons that his family was constantly moving from place, boarding with one family or another.

Even the first version of the Furst Vision has Smith hanging out at home while his family was absent, presumably out working their farm. If anyone here has ever spent time on a farm, you know that there’s always something to do. The ‘Jewish minister’ named Joshua stops by and the two rap about religion for a while, begging the question, why was he never interrupted by his family? The only answer is that he was either lying or he was playing hookey.

Not only that, but the man was a scam artist, too. He was arrested twice in the early days of the church (this is the reason we attach double-jeopardy prejudice to cases) for money-digging. We see that the Kirtland bank was a scam, too (it was opened at a time when the US was granting no new charters, required to legally operate a bank). He lived on member’s charity and kindness and he rewarded them with false revelations and prophecies.

This is the side of Joseph Smith that the church doesn’t want its members to know.

 

[why_me]

exactly. She was no fool. And she had a man who could get people to build her a house and treat her like a queen. Why in the world would she tell the truth about Joe?

Really? Strange just how many times she was forced to move from place to place by mobs. But if she was in it for a home, she was really crazy.

 

[why_me]

Joseph Smith married a 13 year old.

Fanny seems to be getting younger with each passing year. Check the age again. She was sixteen.

 

[why_me]

That’s the reason that, if you follow my posts, most times, Mormons won’t respond at all. Why? Because they’ve been conditioned to think in one linear mode and they can’t process anything that doesn’t conform to that standard. They will revise time and space, history and fact to make a square peg fit into a round hole.

What more can I do or say?

 

[Returning_Home]

What more can I do or say?

Not much other than since the facts don’t fit the faith, you’re forced to ignore the former to make it work. That about sums up the false gospel of Mormonism.

 

[scipio337]

Fanny seems to be getting younger with each passing year. Check the age again. She was sixteen.

Helen Mar Kimball, 14. Nancy Mariah Winchester, 13. You know, from “Anti-Mormon” (and FARMS contributor), Todd Compton.

And thanks for ignoring the rest of my post. Remember: if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a legitimate question!

 

[Returning_Home]

Helen Mar Kimball, 14. Nancy Mariah Winchester, 13. You know, from “Anti-Mormon” (and FARMS contributor), Todd Compton.

And thanks for ignoring the rest of my post. Remember: if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a legitimate question!

Nauvoo Polygamy by George D. Smith shows them both as 14 years of age. Church historian Andrew Jenson listed Fanny Alger as one of Joseph’s plural wives and Compton as the first, whereas Smith doesn’t include her.

There is some disegreement, but Compton’s list seems to be the most complete.

I can wrench a Dodge so does that count?

 

[Esdra]

Never heard this proverb before.
But intersting. Can anybody tell me what it means figuratively?
The literal translation I found in the dictionary. (My mother tongue is German btw…)

Esdra

 

[scipio337]

Nauvoo Polygamy by George D. Smith shows them both as 14 years of age. Church historian Andrew Jenson listed Fanny Alger as one of Joseph’s plural wives and Compton as the first, whereas Smith doesn’t include her.

There is some disegreement, but Compton’s list seems to be the most complete.

I can wrench a Dodge so does that count?

Yes (but you DID answer a question)

 

[scipio337]

Never heard this proverb before.
But intersting. Can anybody tell me what it means figuratively?
The literal translation I found in the dictionary. (My mother tongue is German btw…)

Esdra

It’s a pop culture reference to the movie Dodgeball, but I thought it a fitting analogy.