does the Orthodox church receive as much vitriol as the Catholic Church

[po18guy]

Back to the thread title:

As to being an Apostolic Church, no.
As to being centered on the Holy Eucharist, no.
As to having seven Sacraments, no.
As to rejecting the “solas”, no.
As to having icons, no.
As to having Marian devotion, no.
As to hostile press coverage, no.
As to maintaining a pro-life position, no.
As to scandal coverage, no.
As to being taught against by Bob Jones University, no.
As to flak received from non-Apostolic Christians, no.
As to being the subject of Jack Chick comics, no.
As to being lambasted by Mike Gendron, no.
As to being criticized by James White, no.
As to being the target of Seventh Day Adventist misinformation, no.
As to being a target of the JWs and LDS for proselytes, no.
As to the Patriarchs being anti-Christs, no.
As to the EO Church being the “whore of Babylon”, no.
Ad nauseam.

Is there bigotry, blindness, ignorance and inconsistency on the part of those taking pot shots only at Catholicism? Yes.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Back to the thread title:

As to being an Apostolic Church, no.
As to being centered on the Holy Eucharist, no.
As to having seven Sacraments, no.
As to rejecting the “solas”, no.
As to having icons, no.
As to having Marian devotion, no.
As to hostile press coverage, no.
As to maintaining a pro-life position, no.
As to scandal coverage, no.
As to being taught against by Bob Jones University, no.
As to flak received from non-Apostolic Christians, no.
As to being the subject of Jack Chick comics, no.
As to being lambasted by Mike Gendron, no.
As to being criticized by James White, no.
As to being the target of Seventh Day Adventist misinformation, no.
As to being a target of the JWs and LDS for proselytes, no.
As to the Patriarchs being anti-Christs, no.
As to the EO Church being the “whore of Babylon”, no.
Ad nauseam.

Is there bigotry, blindness, ignorance and inconsistency on the part of those taking pot shots only at Catholicism? Yes.

If you go to Eastern Europe you will see the JWs and such target the Orthodox more. As mentioned earlier, you don’t see it here where Catholics are the majority of Christians. It doesn’t make sense to attack Catholics in places where they are a minority.

I’m curious though what kind of attacks they have made against Orthodoxy. All I know is that these groups have been making advances in Ukraine and other Eastern European traditionally Orthodox nations.

 

[po18guy]

If you go to Eastern Europe you will see the JWs and such target the Orthodox more. As mentioned earlier, you don’t see it here where Catholics are the majority of Christians. It doesn’t make sense to attack Catholics in places where they are a minority.

I’m curious though what kind of attacks they have made against Orthodoxy. All I know is that these groups have been making advances in Ukraine and other Eastern European traditionally Orthodox nations.

We are in a spiritual war, and the spirit of division attacks relentlessly.

 

[Steveabrous]

This is a case of “thanks but no thanks.” I mean, Anglicans allow you to receive Communion from them, would you? That is how we feel about this offer.

For us being one Church means being one mind, that is we are in agreement of all the essential doctrines Obviously we don’t, so we can’t say we are the one Church. We agree that we both have Apostolic origin, and for the most part have preserved the Apostolic traditions. But there are differences and they are very important.

I rest my case!

The animosity between RCC and Orthodoxy resides on the Orthodox side as I said before and you just illustrated it.

 

[Nine_Two]

In the West, generally speaking people have no idea what we are, and often confuse us with the Jewish denomination. For the most part we just get the general anti-Christian stuff, although some of the anti-Catholic stuff hits quite close to home.

However, every once in a while we get targeted, such as over the whole ***** Riot thing.

 

[Nine_Two]

I rest my case!

The animosity between RCC and Orthodoxy resides on the Orthodox side as I said before and you just illustrated it.

What animosity did he just illustrate?

 

[Steveabrous]

What animosity did he just illustrate?

“Thanks but no thanks”

He also said we are not he same church. As you know there is only 1 church. So again othodoxy is the 1 church RCC is an Apostacy. Am I right?

My position is Christ established 1 church founded on the rock of the papacy. Unfortunately, that 1 church split into two. This is unfortunate. Yes we have the Papacy but both sides have the right to be called members of the one true church. This is the position of RCC. All my life RCC has been extending the hand of friendship to Orthodoxy. And the Orthodox answer with “No thanks”

Orthodoxy’s side is Christ started 1 church and the RCC left that church, Orthodoxy alone is the one true church and “literally” to hell with everyone else.

Am I wrong?

 

[gus]

Whether someone identifies their adult sexual preferences as homosexual or heterosexual is not predictive of whether or not they’ll sexually abuse a child.

Well, look at who it is that the Eastern Orthodox mostly exist alongside. Not many Protestants, not many Catholics either- it’s been mostly Muslims. Catholics, otoh, mostly exist alongside a combination of Protestants and non-religious people. Atheists, agnostics, and the spiritually lazy who don’t bother

with it too much.

So I want to submit a rephrasing of the question. Who is less kind to their Apostolic neighbors- Muslims in general, or some combination of Protestants and the non-religious? These are very different situations, and sometimes it depends on when and where you look at. With the exception of a situation like Ireland, Catholics have nothing to compare to the way that Muslims tend to generate life-threatening situations and/or mass displacement of Orthodox Christians for fear of their lives. So I’d say it also depends on how much vitriol you choose to ascribe to that compared to something like an offensive comic strip.

Edit- I suppose there has been a substantial amount of interaction between EO Christians and atheist/secular/Communist governments. So that gives you more of an apples to apples comparison as well.

Tell that to the Iraq Catholics or Lebanese Catholicss or African Catholics murdered in the last few years.
There is a war going on now
Would you guys smarten up before the west becomes the new mideast

 

[Nine_Two]

“Thanks but no thanks”
He also said we are not he same church. As you know there is only 1 church. So again othodoxy is the 1 church RCC is an Apostacy. Am I right?

While you can easily find those who say the RCC is apostate, most would simply say it is in schism (which is the RCC position on the Orthodox Church)

My position is Christ established 1 church founded on the rock of the papacy. Unfortunately, that 1 church split into two. This is unfortunate. Yes we have the Papacy but both sides have the right to be called members of the one true church. This is the position of RCC. All my life RCC has been extending the hand of friendship to Orthodoxy. And the Orthodox answer with “No thanks”

I’m almost positive that is not the position of the RCC. If it is it is quite recent.
And why shouldn’t we be allowed to answer with “no thanks” without hatred? The whole reason for the schism was disagreement. Why are you surprised that we still disagree?

Orthodoxy’s side is Christ started 1 church and the RCC left that church, Orthodoxy alone is the one true church and “literally” to hell with everyone else.

Am I wrong?

You’re close. We do believe the RCC left the Church (again, that isn’t animosity, although there certainly was on both sides). We don’t believe ourselves fit to discuss the relationships of other churches with Christ. This is not a chortle-behind-your-back-no-comment sort of thing. We actually haven’t put any time and effort into the subject, specifically because it isn’t important to us. As the Apostle said, “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling”.
The modern Orthodox Church would like to be on friendly terms with the modern Catholic Church, but we aren’t going to agree with you just because you’d like us to.

Afterall, the Anglican Church has the same type of teachings toward Catholicism as you have about Orthodoxy. Why should we feel bad about not returning the feelings if you aren’t going to feel bad about not returning the Anglicans?

 

[dzheremi]

We don’t have a lot of professional Jack Chick-style haters out there, but I would much prefer that. Instead our congregations in the Middle East deal with things like this:

Our churches being bombed mid-service

Warning: not for the faint of heart. The priests are repeating “There’s nothing wrong” (mafeesh haga) to try to calm the people after the bomb explodes, and they continue with the prayers; 22 people lost their lives that night, and they continued to praise God amid the destruction and death. Somehow I doubt that’s something that anyone here can relate to (I know I sure can’t), and it’s something I’d like the posters here who make snide remarks about Orthodoxy to keep in mind.

Massacres in which scores of Copts are murdered in cold blood by mobs and nobody is held accountable

Monasteries being destroyed by rampaging mobs (in the case of Abu Fana, the monastery pictured here, monks were kidnapped, beaten, and their kidnappers attempted to get them renounce Christianity, convert to Islam, and spit on the cross…)

Sometimes the army attacks the monasteries, too (for building a wall to protect their monastery from the kinds of mobs that had earlier come to the Abu Fana monastery)

And then there is of course the current travesty of Copts being killed when leaving a funeral that was being held for Copts who had been killed the previous weekend. It just never freaking ends. Even HH Pope Tawadros II is directly criticizing the president over this. It’s really getting out of hand.

I wish all our people had to deal with in the Middle East is Protestants not liking us and drawing silly cartoon booklets about our faith. I really do. Very rarely does a liturgy or other gathering pass without new awful news of a parishioner’s cousin, neighbor, friend, etc. back in Egypt being kidnapped, threatened, etc.

 

[Steveabrous]

While you can easily find those who say the RCC is apostate, most would simply say it is in schism (which is the RCC position on the Orthodox Church)

I’m glad to see that is the case. It’s not my experience. But the loud ones or the ones usually on forums (like myself)

I’m almost positive that is not the position of the RCC. If it is it is quite recent.

It may be recent (since Vatican 2)

And why shouldn’t we be allowed to answer with “no thanks” without hatred? The whole reason for the schism was disagreement. Why are you surprised that we still disagree?

You have a point

You’re close. We do believe the RCC left the Church (again, that isn’t animosity, although there certainly was on both sides). We don’t believe ourselves fit to discuss the relationships of other churches with Christ. This is not a chortle-behind-your-back-no-comment sort of thing. We actually haven’t put any time and effort into the subject, specifically because it isn’t important to us. As the Apostle said, “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling”.

understandable. I am curious though- I understand orthodoxy still recognizes the Pope to be the prime Patriarch. How can you believe this and still think we are not part of the church? Or am I miss understanding?

The modern Orthodox Church would like to be on friendly terms with the modern Catholic Church, but we aren’t going to agree with you just because you’d like us to.

True. Unfortunately I think the differences rule out reunification unless Christ himself intervenes. Although I know that RCC is praying for our reunification.

Afterall, the Anglican Church has the same type of teachings toward Catholicism as you have about Orthodoxy. Why should we feel bad about not returning the feelings if you aren’t going to feel bad about not returning the Anglicans?

I think it is a little different. But I don’t see them as part of the true physical church and you are. I think the Anglican church may reunite with Rome just based on the converts from Anglicanism alone.

 

[Nine_Two]

I
understandable. I am curious though- I understand orthodoxy still recognizes the Pope to be the prime Patriarch. How can you believe this and still think we are not part of the church? Or am I miss understanding?

We believe the Pope held a position of Honour within the Church which can be seen as analogous to the position held by Constantinople in the Orthodox Church. It was not, in our eyes, a God given position, and could be taken away.

In fact in the centuries prior to the Great Schism it was taken away at various times, as minor schisms (which were always healed) broke out. Most telling about these schisms is that even when they excommunicated the Bishop of Rome (and usually he excommunicated his opponent bishops), never was their a discussion afterward that “you can’t do that”. It was tacitly acknowledged that anyone could be excommunicated.

The fact of the matter is the recent lifting of the anathemas between Constantinople and Rome was done based on a technicality, not an agreement about the situation that caused them.

I think it is a little different. But I don’t see them as part of the true physical church and you are. I think the Anglican church may reunite with Rome just based on the converts from Anglicanism alone.

As a former Anglican I would say that most Anglicans would find the idea that they aren’t part of the true church just as distasteful as you find the idea that the Orthodox confess Rome as part of the true church. In fact I’m always have to be careful around my Anglican step-father who finds the idea of any sort of closed communion offensive.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I rest my case!

The animosity between RCC and Orthodoxy resides on the Orthodox side as I said before and you just illustrated it.

That is not animosity. Why would we give up our beliefs? Just to make you guys feel good? Love also involves honesty. Our rejection of your Eucharist has nothing to do about animosity. We do not share the same beliefs, why should we share Communion?

 

[Steveabrous]

We do not share the same beliefs, why should we share Communion?

Touche. My wife is not Catholic and got offended she could not take communion in the Catholic church and that I wouldn’t in her church at first.

 

[Steveabrous]

We believe the Pope held a position of Honour within the Church which can be seen as analogous to the position held by Constantinople in the Orthodox Church. It was not, in our eyes, a God given position, and could be taken away.

In fact in the centuries prior to the Great Schism it was taken away at various times, as minor schisms (which were always healed) broke out. Most telling about these schisms is that even when they excommunicated the Bishop of Rome (and usually he excommunicated his opponent bishops), never was their a discussion afterward that “you can’t do that”. It was tacitly acknowledged that anyone could be excommunicated.

.

O. k. obviously i don’t agree with any of that. The bishop of Rome never lost his position, No one has the authority to take it from him. But, agree to disagree I believe

 

[shawnbm]

Using the Anglicans as an example is not fitting. For one, they are not of apostolic origin, although at one time shortly after the break they had bishops that were. They are no different from other Protestant sects and that is what they are–PROTESTants. The reject many of the orthodox catholic beliefs and Traditions. I wonder how many here have actually read the 39 Articles in the back of Book of Common Prayer. There are things there that show a clear allegiance to typical protestantism, so using the Anglicans as an argument is not fitting in my view. Catholics treat Orthodox as brothers in the Faith as the Orthodox never left the historic Faith, just as the Catholic Church didn’t. Anglicanism was founded on breaking away and although it “looks” catholic and orthodox and may even call its service a mass or Eucharist, they do not believe in the Eucharist confessionally–some in the communion do, others don’t, “but use your God-given reason and arrive at your own conclusion”. They do not venerate the same Bible Catholics and Orthodox do–the call Baruch, Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Tobit and the Maccabean historical books apocrypha and merely useful–but I can recall only one time in my life a reading from one of those books and it was never studied as scripture, but as an historical anomaly.

The Catholic and Orthodox I view as two sides of the same coin–they have their historical differences and richness, but they are still good money. They are held together by the same material, so to speak.

 

[ConstantineTG]

O. k. obviously i don’t agree with any of that. The bishop of Rome never lost his position, No one has the authority to take it from him. But, agree to disagree I believe

A Pope has been deposed by an emperor several times.

 

[Steveabrous]

A Pope has been deposed by an emperor several times.

Sorry, but there is no credible historical evidence to support this claim.

Emporers may have tried. However, the popes authority comes from Christ himself. Not the government

 

[ConstantineTG]

Touche. My wife is not Catholic and got offended she could not take communion in the Catholic church and that I wouldn’t in her church at first.

I forgot if it was Met. Kallistos or Patriarch Bartholomew who said that Communion should be the goal of unity, not the means. That is, we should resolve our issues first before we share Communion, not start sharing Communion and then resolve our goals. Because Communion means we share the same beliefs, and we would be lying to the Body of Christ and to ourselves if we receive with those we do not agree with.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Sorry, but there is no credible historical evidence to support this claim.

Emporers may have tried. However, the popes authority comes from Christ himself. Not the government

Then why did the Popes seek affirmation from the Emperor to legitimize their claim, especially during the controversies when there were more than one claimant to the Papal Throne?

There are a lot of credible historical evidence. Unless you are one of those who sees something against your beliefs and automatically treat it as dubious on the basis that it is against your belief, and not on the basis that the facts were not presented properly.