Does the treasury of merit exist?

[GaryTaylor]

Joe, I heard a Jesuit father speak about this last week on EWTN. I didn’t hear the exact name Treasury of Merit. He spoke of the intercession of the Saints in Bible, Revelation, their its mentioned twice. Also another in Hebrews.

However, the intercession for example that occur’s through your prayer works in a similiar way. The incense is symbolic of the sweet smell of prayers by the Saints, BVM, Angels etc. Revelations speaks of the Saints. When the incense is lite, the aroma expands in the air, offered up to God. The smell of the sweet prayer please’s the Lord and He intercede’s as He wills with the offered up prayer.

On an individual basis as sinners our prayers are offered up to the Lord for many reasons, reparation of sin, suffering, strength to endure etc. However, there is still pre-se no control over the Lords will. On the other hand the idea of a state of grace along with prayer is to endure in a state of grace and help remain in this state.

Peace

 

[Bearontherun]

I have only heard the term “treasury of merit” used when referring to indulgences. Since the keys of the kingdom of heaven have been given to the church, the church is able to offer indulgences to people which originate from the treasurey of merit. All of the merit belongs to Christ but He allows us to be partakers in the merit and He willingly shares it with us. This makes sense as we are members of the Body of Christ.

Sorry if I have drifted from the original topic. I am no longer certain if my post is relevant:shrug:

 

[Swiss_Guy]

“Christ has unlimited merits by his death on the Cross”…

What do you guys mean when you talk about “merits” or “meritorious” qualities (of prayers or what have you)?

Christ’s death on the cross purchased for us an infinite amount of merits/graces/rewards, and the saints’ works of supererogation (e.g celibacy, etc) adds to the treasury of merit that Christ “purchased” by his death on the Cross. So the saints add to the infinite amount of merits, because the saints merits are Christ’s merits; they can’t merit anything without the grace of God.

merits are a recompense/reward owed. If we obey God, have the Eucharist, keep in step with the Spirit, etc, we receive more grace since it is a reward from God - we merit it. (we merit it by letting the Holy Spirit guide us and perform good works in us by faith/trust ).

Does that make more sense?

 

[dzheremi]

Not really. I do not think it is correct to say we are “owed” anything from God for anything we do. We got all the recompense we could ever need (and certainly much more than we deserve) when our Lord Jesus Christ was incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit and conquered death on the cross entirely for our sake. So I think that this merit business is entirely the wrong way to look at things. We are in charge of nothing and deserving nothing. It is not to create some sort of grand “I.O.U.” that we behave as Christians ought to behave. “Faith without works is dead”, no? So it is because we want to embrace the living faith that we do these things. They are an outgrowth of the faith and life that is within us, not some means to get what we feel we are owed. I personally do not feel like I am owed anything. Rather, every breath that I take is a gift from God that I do not deserve. I couldn’t repay even a single gift from God even if I spent every day of the next 100 years in prayer and doing good works.

I think if the perspective is “I did this, so I am owed this” then we come before God not as the repentant sinners that we are, but as something else that is not pleasing to God or reflective of the humility necessary to true repentance and Christian life. I would beware this attitude.

I sincerely hope I have misunderstood you, Swiss Guy.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Not really. I do not think it is correct to say we are “owed” anything from God for anything we do. We got all the recompense we could ever need (and certainly much more than we deserve) when our Lord Jesus Christ was incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit and conquered death on the cross entirely for our sake. So I think that this merit business is entirely the wrong way to look at things. We are in charge of nothing and deserving nothing. It is not to create some sort of grand “I.O.U.” that we behave as Christians ought to behave. “Faith without works is dead”, no? So it is because we want to embrace the living faith that we do these things. They are an outgrowth of the faith and life that is within us, not some means to get what we feel we are owed. I personally do not feel like I am owed anything. Rather, every breath that I take is a gift from God that I do not deserve. I couldn’t repay even a single gift from God even if I spent every day of the next 100 years in prayer and doing good works.

I think if the perspective is “I did this, so I am owed this” then we come before God not as the repentant sinners that we are, but as something else that is not pleasing to God or reflective of the humility necessary to true repentance and Christian life. I would beware this attitude.

I sincerely hope I have misunderstood you, Swiss Guy.

You have misunderstood me. I have a reputation in my family of not explaining things well. It shows here, doesn’t it.

It seems to me that you think I am saying, “I did this, so God owes me this…”

God doesn’t owe us a thing. but God does promise us to repay everyone according to his works (Romans 2:6), and a person will reap what he sows (Galatians 6:7). Gal. 6:7 later says, “the one who sows for the spirit will reap eternal life from the spirit.” So if you keep in step with the Holy Spirit, God promises to gives us rewards for what we have done - faith working in love. “Our merits are God’s gifts” - St. Augustine. See the CCC 2006-2011 for more info.

God bless.

Joey

 

[joe370]

I have only heard the term “treasury of merit” used when referring to indulgences. Since the keys of the kingdom of heaven have been given to the church, the church is able to offer indulgences to people which originate from the treasurey of merit. All of the merit belongs to Christ but He allows us to be partakers in the merit and He willingly shares it with us. This makes sense as we are members of the Body of Christ.

Sorry if I have drifted from the original topic. I am no longer certain if my post is relevant:shrug:

I guess it really comes down to the question: Since the keys of the kingdom of heaven have been given to Jesus’ church, ( “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose…) - is His church endowed with the authority to offer indulgences (which originate from the treasury of merit) - to people? I think so, but I do agree with dzheremi regarding the mechanics of how it happens. Jesus’ church, sojourning here on earth, can’t possibly know how to assess or quantify the state or condition of the person receiving the indulgence, once the recipient receives said indulgence.

 

[joe370]

You have misunderstood me. I have a reputation in my family of not explaining things well. It shows here, doesn’t it.

It seems to me that you think I am saying, “I did this, so God owes me this…”

God doesn’t owe us a thing. but God does promise us to repay everyone according to his works (Romans 2:6), and a person will reap what he sows (Galatians 6:7). Gal. 6:7 later says, “the one who sows for the spirit will reap eternal life from the spirit.” So if you keep in step with the Holy Spirit, God promises to gives us rewards for what we have done - faith working in love. “Our merits are God’s gifts” - St. Augustine. See the CCC 2006-2011 for more info.

God bless.

Joey

Yes. It seems to me that our individual merits are gifts from God, and our actions in life determine how much grace God is willing to vouchsafe, which ultimately gives way to the merits of each individual, and of course said merit (a product of grace) - is always drawn from the infinite merits of Christ, Who is the Infinite fount of Grace.

 

[joe370]

Christ’s death on the cross purchased for us an infinite amount of merits/graces/rewards, and the saints’ works of supererogation (e.g celibacy, etc) adds to the treasury of merit that Christ “purchased” by his death on the Cross. So the saints add to the infinite amount of merits, because the saints merits are Christ’s merits; they can’t merit anything without the grace of God.

merits are a recompense/reward owed. If we obey God, have the Eucharist, keep in step with the Spirit, etc, we receive more grace since it is a reward from God - we merit it. (we merit it by letting the Holy Spirit guide us and perform good works in us by faith/trust ).

Does that make more sense?

Are they really owed, or simply vouchsafed? The rest makes sense, but I’m not sure if the word add is correct; I could be wrong of course. Perhaps our merits, derived from God’s infinite grace, as “co-heirs with Christ,” or co-laborers with Christ, are joined to (as well as partake of…) - the infinite treasury of merit that Christ “purchased” by his death on the Cross? I only suggest that because friends of mine have insisted, when I used the word add, that somehow I was suggesting that something was lacking vis-a-vis the infinite merits of Christ. Forgive me if I misunderstood your use of the word “add.”

 

[joe370]

Joe, I heard a Jesuit father speak about this last week on EWTN. I didn’t hear the exact name Treasury of Merit. He spoke of the intercession of the Saints in Bible, Revelation, their its mentioned twice. Also another in Hebrews.

However, the intercession for example that occur’s through your prayer works in a similiar way. The incense is symbolic of the sweet smell of prayers by the Saints, BVM, Angels etc. Revelations speaks of the Saints. When the incense is lite, the aroma expands in the air, offered up to God. The smell of the sweet prayer please’s the Lord and He intercede’s as He wills with the offered up prayer.

Peace

As a fledgling catholic I always use to wonder why the priest would use incense at Mass…

 

[joe370]

Hey dzheremi, I was thinking about what you said about the mechanics of the treasury which brought to mind indulgences which ultimately make use of the treasury of merit, and the Catholic Church agrees with you:

Indulgentarium Doctrina - Only God knows exactly how efficacious any particular partial indulgence is or whether a plenary indulgence was received at all.

 

[Bearontherun]

Hey dzheremi, I was thinking about what you said about the mechanics of the treasury which brought to mind indulgences which ultimately make use of the treasury of merit, and the Catholic Church agrees with you:

Indulgentarium Doctrina - Only God knows exactly how efficacious any particular partial indulgence is or whether a plenary indulgence was received at all.

Good point. I agree. The grace we receive depends on our disposition. Just like when we receive Holy Communion. The more of a state of grace that we are in, the more united we will be with Him.

 

[joe370]

Good point. I agree. The grace we receive depends on our disposition. Just like when we receive Holy Communion. The more of a state of grace that we are in, the more united we will be with Him.

Hey Bearontherun, you know, I am often told by my protestant friends that the treasury of merit from which an indulgence finds its efficacy, (both of which stem from Jesus ALONE via His church) - attempt, in some way, to take away or add something to the work of Christ, which made no sense to me once I came to understand the truth regarding the synergistic inner workings of these things.

Like the sacraments, (including the 2 embraced by most protestants, which are merely outward efficacious signs instituted by Christ to impart grace, taking nothing away or adding anything to the work of Christ) - these things simply point to Christ via His church and derive all of their power, grace, merit and efficacy from Christ ALONE, for the simple fact that it is Christ alone who mediates and animates the Church, which is His Body, of which He alone is the Head and Savior. Regarding these things Jesus simply chooses to make use of the members of His Body, as taught by saint Paul, to draw people closer to Him and His Mystical Body, the Church, which, if you think about it, intrinsically, makes each member of Jesus’ Mystical Body, a sacrament. We, as members of Jesus’ Body, are all walking sacraments when it comes to meritorious prayer, which can only bear fruit if drawn from the fount of God’s Mercy and grace.

Christ of course is the ultimate sacrament, as He gave His life to save mankind, and His humanity is the outward sign, or the instrument of his Divinity, and it is through His humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace, through the sacraments, and the same thing applies regarding Jesus’ church and His use of His church to grant an indulgence via the treasury of merit, which of course derives its efficacy from Christ.

Just as it is Jesus Christ ALONE who animates and mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow from Him to mankind, so to it is Jesus Christ ALONE who animates and mediates the actions of His Body, the church (via the keys…the binding and loosing…) - regarding the treasury of merit from which an indulgence is vouchsafed to an individual, by His church, thus allowing grace to flow from Him (like a sacrament) - to those here on earth as well as those experiencing purgatory.

Ultimately, everything in Jesus’ church derives its merit from the Cross of Calvary. No cross, no church, no grace, no merit, no beatific vision…

 

[De_Maria]

Sorry, Joe, but I still don’t really understand the use of “merit” or meritorious". Swiss Guy used it in the plural, which implies that “merit” is something countable, like money. And if I understand you correctly, prayers are considered “meritorious” when (because?) they draw a person closer to God. Trying to connect the two (the countable, money-like “merits” and “meritorious” things that bring you closer to God), I am left thinking that you earn merits by/when drawing closer to God, and that these merits are what are stored and drawn from by the faithful. Am I close?

Yes. But the “treasury” is only a metaphor. A more down to earth idea could be the bank, in which I store my money, from which my wife draws and buys groceries to feed our family.

I’m trying to understand, but this concept is very foreign to me. Even though I was RC for about 5 years, I don’t remember this idea ever coming up.

Here are some problems with this idea:

• It seems like a very financial and worldly way to approach spirituality

That is why it is called the economy of grace:
2541 The economy of law and grace turns men’s hearts away from avarice and envy. It initiates them into desire for the Sovereign Good; it instructs them in the desires of the Holy Spirit who satisfies man’s heart.
The God of the promises always warned man against seduction by what from the beginning has seemed “good for food . . . a delight to the eyes . . . to be desired to make one wise.”

• We don’t really know the exact mechanics of how prayers are answered.

We do. It is the same way that a father or mother responds to their children.

I fail to see why this is something we should even need to look at. God answers prayer. That much we know. If we start asking how, and developing all kinds of theories about how, aren’t we bound to drive ourselves crazy?

These aren’t blind theories. They are suggested in Scripture and Tradition. That is why God is called Father. Why Jesus is our Brother. Why Mary is our mother and why all of the rest of us are brothers and sisters in Christ.

We can’t ever know such things, can we?

God expects us to meditate upon His Word and many saints have been blessed with such knowledge.

I could see how this need for absolute epistemological could be very destructive, because it not forthcoming in this life.

Certainly, if you feel uncomfortable, don’t proceed any further. However, Scripture says:

Ecclesiasticus 24:31
They that explain me shall have life everlasting.

• If by “meritorious” you mean “drawing a person closer to God”, and merits are some sort of individual unit of _____ (grace or something?)

That is simply a metaphor. Only God knows the value of our works.

that are earned by those actions that draw a person closer to God, then what can we say about the inherent value of building a close relationship with God?

This is the value we are speaking of.

This kind of understanding seems dangerously close to what I always thought was a more Protestant view,

Protestantism discarded the idea of merit.

wherein (for instance) the entirety of the Christian life can be summarized as an attempt to “get to heaven”/“avoid hell”, leading to a human-centered idea of our relationship with God that seems an awful lot like an elementary school fund raising drive to sell enough newspapers to get a certain prize.

Everything we’ve explained is in Scripture. God rewards us for our deeds produced in faith. This reward is from the treasury of Christ’s merits. Which are infinite. Even one drop of His blood sufficed to cleanse the world of all sin. Yet He emptied Himself.

Why don’t you give us your understanding of the economy of faith and we can discuss the differences?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[dzheremi]

Yes. But the “treasury” is only a metaphor. A more down to earth idea could be the bank, in which I store my money, from which my wife draws and buys groceries to feed our family.

I find this interesting, since the other main contributor to this thread (Joe370) has rejected the idea that this concept should be understood financially.

We do. It is the same way that a father or mother responds to their children.

I meant the mechanics by which prayers are answered.

These aren’t blind theories. They are suggested in Scripture and Tradition. That is why God is called Father. Why Jesus is our Brother. Why Mary is our mother and why all of the rest of us are brothers and sisters in Christ.

I do not understand what you mean. These things are as they are because of this treasury of merit idea? As I understand it from articles like this one, this treasury of merit concept was defined in 1343 by Clement VI. God was not called “Father” before 1343?

God expects us to meditate upon His Word and many saints have been blessed with such knowledge.

I know of no saint outside of the Roman Catholic tradition (and quite late in it, at that) who has written on or otherwise endorsed the concept of a treasury of merit.

Certainly, if you feel uncomfortable, don’t proceed any further. However, Scripture says:

They that explain me shall have life everlasting.

This treasury of merit concept does not explain God.

Everything we’ve explained is in Scripture

I disagree that the treasury of merit concept necessarily follows from a Patristically-informed understanding of scripture. If the opposite were the case, we would see support of the idea outside of medieval Latin scholastics. We do not see that, which makes sense given the late development of the concept from certain very specific understandings of earlier writings that are said to form the basis for this doctrine.

Why don’t you give us your understanding of the economy of faith and we can discuss the differences?

I do not understand faith in economic terms, so I have no such understanding to contribute.

 

[joe370]

Hey dzheremi… You said:

dzheremi;8323312]I find this interesting, since the other main contributor to this thread (Joe370) has rejected the idea that this concept should be understood financially.

No I didn’t. I rejected the notion of a literal involvement of money. I totally agree with De Maria, who said:

“Yes. But the “treasury” is only a metaphor…”

 

[joe370]

Hey dzheremi…

I

do not understand what you mean. These things are as they are because of this treasury of merit idea? As I understand it from articles like this one, this treasury of merit concept was defined in 1343 by Clement VI. God was not called “Father” before 1343?

I think perhaps we are getting bogged down by semantics. I agree with you of course that the term treasury of merit was not employed by the early church, nor was the term Trinity, along with many others, but the intercession of the saints in heaven was certainly believed; few examples below:

Clement of Alexandria: “In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]” (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).

Origen: “But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep” (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]).

Cyprian of Carthage: “Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy” (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).

 

[joe370]

dzheremi…

I know of no saint outside of the Roman Catholic tradition (and quite late in it, at that) who has written on or otherwise endorsed the concept of a treasury of merit.

Do you believe that saint Faustina is the genuine article? If so then you should read what Jesus had to say to her about the whole thing. I could send you some links. Of course, if you don’t, that’s cool…

This treasury of merit concept does not explain God.

Well, nothing can explain God, but God certainly left us with His church, guided by the Holy Spirit, to explain His teachings, or at least the teachings God wanted to reveal - yes, no, maybe? I of course, also agree with De Maria:

If it feels forced then what’s the point. If you feel uncomfortable, don’t worry about it brother, but it is fun just to chat, nonetheless…

 

[KathleenGee]

De Maria is reflecting on, because of indulgences particularly practiced by a German priest Luther saw selling indulgences to gain heaven…when someone who is still in this orbit reads the Catholic Catechism on indulgences and the treasury of merit…they can not read the passage without a filter.

Every day we make choices either for the Lord or not in the Lord, but ourselves…the decisions we build up on are in a sense…a treasury…a poetic sense reflecting on the Kingdom of Christ, the Pearl of Great Price…based on our decision to follow grace.

The more we grow in grace, the more we grow in Christ…who is the Treasury of our Life…Christ alone perfection of all virtues. Jesus is living virtue.

Likewise, if we fall from grace through sin, our deposit in Christ declines…and we backslide.

Also note, that celibate priests do have a particular spirituality and insight for renouncing ALL for the Gospel, even marriage.

Instead, we need to realize that celibacy is a great gift to the Church, and can give us greater and more astute and indepth comprehension of faith and grace and spirituality.

 

[joe370]

Hey Kathleen, thanks for the feedback sister…

KathleenGee;8323940]De Maria is reflecting on, because of indulgences particularly practiced by a German priest Luther saw selling indulgences to gain heaven…when someone who is still in this orbit reads the Catholic Catechism on indulgences and the treasury of merit…they can not read the passage without a filter.

Every day we make choices either for the Lord or not in the Lord, but ourselves…the decisions we build up on are in a sense…a treasury…a poetic sense reflecting on the Kingdom of Christ, the Pearl of Great Price…based on our decision to follow grace.

The more we grow in grace, the more we grow in Christ…who is the Treasury of our Life…Christ alone perfection of all virtues. Jesus is living virtue.

Likewise, if we fall from grace through sin, our deposit in Christ declines…and we backslide.

“…But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy…"

Like you said: “the decisions we build up on are in a sense…a treasury…based on our decision to follow grace” - and when we do eventually, God willing, reach heaven, certainly it will be Jesus’ Will for us to do as He does, and share our treasure, (which includes all the good we did on earth) - with others on earth, in need of our prayers, which also constitute the treasury of merit, and of course the Treasure that we amass here on earth will no doubt be based on how much we allowed Jesus to infuse us with His grace on earth…

It is clear from scripture that God blesses people as a reward to other good and faithful servants, and God could certainly use the good deeds and prayers of those heavenly saints (their treasury of merit) - to bless certain folks, either still sojourning on earth or experiencing purgatory, as a reward for their good deeds and prayers. In the end Jesus will say to each and every saint who has stored up his/her heavenly treasure: “Well done, good and faithful servant.”

Surely Jesus wants us all working corporately for the sake of His Mystical Body, the Church!

 

[dzheremi]

No I didn’t. I rejected the notion of a literal involvement of money. I totally agree with De Maria, who said:

“Yes. But the “treasury” is only a metaphor…”

My apologies for misunderstanding on this point. If this is the case, then, I don’t really understand why you apparently disagreed with me when I related Swiss Guy’s use of “merits” (plural) to something “countable, money-like” (post #17), as that’s not the literal involvement of money, either. And that’s why I phrased it that way, because it leads to a financial understanding of salvation (in keeping with my objection to this view related later in the same post) – not because it involves actual money. It obviously doesn’t involve actual money (accusations of purchasing indulgences in medieval Europe aside…), but De Maria and now you both seem to agree that the financial metaphor is the most appropriate one to use to understand how this concept is supposed to work.

Regarding the points from your subsequent posts:

I must emphasize again that while I absolutely agree with the intercessions of the saints and see their intercessions as a reality and a great strength of the church throughout all ages, I do not see how you get from belief in the intercession of saints to this “treasure of merit” concept. Or rather, I see it, but I don’t see why it necessarily follows from belief in intercession. Surely the majority of churches that do believe in intercession of the saints have not developed this doctrine of the treasury of merits, as it is a uniquely Latin idea. Do you understand the distinction I am trying to make? It’s like when Latins invoke the idea of purgatory in relation to the prayers of the saints: You can certainly have one without the other. The Orthodox churches have always believed in intercession without believing in these Latin/Western developments, for instance.

Do you believe that saint Faustina is the genuine article?

I do not believe in Mary Faustina Kowalska, nor any other post-schism Roman Catholic saint. How does she fit into this discussion?

Well, nothing can explain God, but God certainly left us with His church, guided by the Holy Spirit, to explain His teachings, or at least the teachings God wanted to reveal - yes, no, maybe?

Yes, but this of course leads us to the unavoidable question regarding this idea, namely, that since all apostolic churches agree with this idea, how can it be that the same Holy Spirit leads some to doctrinalize philosophical notions that others either openly discard or at least relegate to the realm of pious opinion? Obviously you have your own opinion as to who is following correctly and who is not, as I have mine, but that’s exactly why I would not resort to such open ended questions. They won’t be answered satisfactorily in our lifetimes, my friend, and if they were I doubt such answers would be forthcoming on an internet messageboard, of all places.