Does the ubiquitous "Gather" hymnal violate the principles of Vatican II?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lepanto
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Lepanto

Guest
The following was written by a priest in the Archdiocese of Detroit:
As the moribund collection of popular music for Mass erodes at the faith of the faithful every week, every day, it amazes every good Catholic that the pastors of the Church do everything except abolish it.

A recent perusal of Gather Comprehensive ( Second Edition) – you know, those “Gather” hymnals in so many parishes today, reveals how at odds Gather is with the principles of sacred music proper to the Catholic Church. This comes as no surprise, I’m sure, to the Gentle Reader, but it’s worth highlighting one particular aspect of the hymnal’s non-Catholic quality.

Full article:

fatherpaul.org/didaskalos/editorials_answers/liturgy/SacredMusic_02.html
 
While it does have a token sprinkling of traditional hymns (O Sons and Daughters, Attended Domine, I Received the Living God, All Glory, Laud and Honor, and O Come, O Come Emmanuel), the rest seems like a mixed marriage between OCP and GIA. They took the best of the worst and came up with this hymnal.:eek:

GIA stands for Gregorian Institute of America. Unfortunately, they have strayed too far from the Gregorian aspect and have crossed the line into the banal.
 
Which currently available hymnal which you say is best?

Worship?

Adoremus?
 
Lepanto said:
Which currently available hymnal which you say is best?

Worship?

Adoremus?
Click to expand...
The thrd edition of Worship that came out in the 80s is much better than the re-translated version. I actually got hold of Worship II. The music is actually pretty good.

Adoremus, though, wouldn’t have the problems of the “politically-correct” re-translations. It seems like a pretty good fit.

Can you tell I’m torn?

Now, if someone could come out with a Spanish-language hymnal that has truly sacred and traditional music, that would be most helpful. OCP has a strangle on that market.:mad:
 
The old Worship II was a very good hymnal, while the Worship III was a radical departure in the direction of OCP with regard to theological content and inclusive language. Gather seems to be a continuation in this vein, although GIA has always had superior organ arrangements (for organ, not “keyboard”). Unfortunately, the We Celebrate Hymnal by J.S. Paluch took a similar turn a few years ago.

My favorites are the St. Michael’s and Adoremus Hymnals. Both of these feature traditional songs without inclusive language and a selection of English and Latin Mass parts that don’t sound like music from 70’s television commericials. The Adoremus is the more traditional of the two, while the St. Michael’s includes some of the better contemporary hymns as well as several Spanish hymns, which Adoremus lacks. Another great hymnal is the Westminster Hymnal from the UK.
 
I don’t think that Gather violates anything in and of itself. And that priest goes too far when he talks about banning the piano from the church. Although the organ has the “place of pride”, other instruments are “allowed”. The piano, played properly, is reverent and suitable for mass.

Worship III is a solid hymnal. Unlike many, I see no problem with changing HYMN TEXTS that are NOT part of the mass to be a bit more sensitive to the needs of people. When used with Worship III, Gather adds some of the best loved Catholic music to the repertoire. Like it or not, “Blest are They” is how many people learned the beatitudes and leave church singing them. “Awake, O Sleeper Arise from Death” is a powerful, scriptural statement to begin the fourth Sunday of Lent liturgies. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

I DO much prefer ANY GIA hymnal to anything from OCP. As with anything, not every piece in their hymnals are as good as another. But overall, it’s probably one of the best on the market.

I DID see the St. Michael Hymnal while visiting a cathedral out of town. It looked good as well, from what I remember - and also had many of the newer “standards” in it.
 
Just one of a few priest with a narrow taste in music.

If the Hymnal is in violation of Vatican II, then the USCCB should ban it. Being they haven’t, the priest in the OP, is in the minority, when it comes to what is proper liturgical music or not. When he gets to be Bishop, he can help change the hymnals to his preferred taste. Until then, he’s limited to restricting the music at his own parish.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Just one of a few priest with a narrow taste in music.

If the Hymnal is in violation of Vatican II, then the USCCB should ban it. Being they haven’t, the priest in the OP, is in the minority, when it comes to what is proper liturgical music or not. When he gets to be Bishop, he can help change the hymnals to his preferred taste. Until then, he’s limited to restricting the music at his own parish.

Jim
Click to expand...
I would not say that he is restricting the music by any means. He is prudent and being careful as to the type of music that is used in his parish. Would that all pastors would be like that.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Just one of a few priest with a narrow taste in music.

If the Hymnal is in violation of Vatican II, then the USCCB should ban it. Being they haven’t, the priest in the OP, is in the minority, when it comes to what is proper liturgical music or not. When he gets to be Bishop, he can help change the hymnals to his preferred taste. Until then, he’s limited to restricting the music at his own parish.

Jim
Click to expand...
The USCCB should be doing a lot of things that it isn’t (or can’t). I’d start with banning half the texts used in RCIA and CCD classes.

But the reality is that the pastor of a given parish is ultimately responsible for his flock, not a national organization that has no local authority.
 
Lepanto said:
The USCCB should be doing a lot of things that it isn’t (or can’t). I’d start with banning half the texts used in RCIA and CCD classes.
Click to expand...
When you become head of the USCCB, then you can change things to your liking. Until then, the rest of us can relax. 😃

Jim
 
a merciful Providence that blew a summer storm through our church roofing job destroyed the (donated) Gather books (not hymnals, very few if any hymns, just songs) we had endured for 20 yrs, and the Flor y Canto as well. Nobody is in any hurry to buy anything new, we are making do with the missalette, and only about 2/3 of those songs pass the pastor’s cut list. it’s an ill wind that blows no good, as they say.
 
The USCCB should ban nothing, as it has no legitimate authority. The bishops should dothe banning within their own dioceses.

As for the original question, if you read the words of the Council fathers, their intent is very clear:
  1. The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art. The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as sacred song united to the words, it forms a necessary or integral part of the solemn liturgy.
…

Accordingly, the sacred Council, keeping to the norms and precepts of ecclesiastical tradition and discipline, and having regard to the purpose of sacred music, which is the glory of God and the sanctification of the faithful, decrees as follows.

…
  1. The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care. …
  2. Great importance is to be attached to the teaching and practice of music …
  3. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.
But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30.
  1. The typical edition of the books of Gregorian chant is to be completed; and a more critical edition is to be prepared of those books already published since the restoration by St. Pius X.
…
  1. Religious singing by the people is to be intelligently fostered so that in devotions and sacred exercises, as also during liturgical services, the voices of the faithful may ring out according to the norms and requirements of the rubrics.
…
  1. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man’s mind to God and to higher things…
 
I believe as long as the bishop approves the use of the book, it is fine to use it. I personally think it is the best book out there and does not “violate” anything.🤷
 
I am very, very glad that our pastor chose to use the Adoremus Hymnal!!
 
The Mass I attended yesterday (May 18th) used the Gather hymnal.

The four hymns used were as follows:

485 O God, Almighty Father

483 Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty

627 You Are Mine

519 Holy God We Praise Thy Name

Now remind me, what is the issue with “Gather” ?? Seems like there’s plenty of “traditional” stuff in there. 😃
 
ethelzguy said:
The Mass I attended yesterday (May 18th) used the Gather hymnal.

The four hymns used were as follows:

485 O God, Almighty Father

483 Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty

627 You Are Mine

519 Holy God We Praise Thy Name

Now remind me, what is the issue with “Gather” ?? Seems like there’s plenty of “traditional” stuff in there. 😃
Click to expand...
Those hymns interfere with some people’s need for whining and moping. 😃

Jim
 
I simply loathe Gather and those who “do” music for youth masses are addicted to it, and today’s teens just hate the toons they choose, they actually prefer P&W Christian Conteporary that happens at the “other” Mass, and love learning new Latin chants and taize.
 
RitualSong I have found is a good bridge between Worship and Gather. And I agree with the poster who said GIA is better than OCP - OCP is annoying, i don’t have any real issue with Gathe.

I think part of the problem with the “new” music is that we are still very much in the middle of this post-VCII transition. The church was around for 2000 years, chant for most of that, and much of our organ music for 500 years when VCII came along. We are only 40 years into the post-VCII era, and we have been flooded with all sorts of new music - it will take some time to hash out what will stand the test of time and what will soon be forgotten. Until then, however, we will have to endure the occasional less-than-stellar hymns while we sort that out.
 
I think you all know the tune to this one:

I am God, or so I sing
I created everything
I’m the one who heals and saves
I do it all

We are God, we worship us
What’s the Eucharsitic fuss?
Community is what we crave
Why pray at all?

---- Now bring it on home —

Me, me, me, lord
I, I, I, lord
I am lord, of everything I see
Me, me, me, lord
I, I, I, lord
We’re the lords, of our com-munity
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top