Does this private revelation debunk Imperfect Contrition?

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Ben_Sinner

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I came across a PR from St. Bridget of Sweden a couple months ago. Here’s what the Lord said to her…

"There are three kinds of people who serve me in this world. The first are the ones who believe me to be God and the giver of all things who has power over everything. They serve me with the intention of obtaining temporal goods and honor, but the things of heaven are as nothing to them, and they would just as soon lose them so that they can obtain present goods. Worldly success in everything falls to their share, according to their wishes. Since they have lost the eternal goods, I recompense them with temporal comforts for whatever good service they do for me, right down to the last farthing 1 ] and their very last moment. 4 ***The second are the ones who believe me to be God almighty and a strict judge, but who serve me out of fear of punishment and not out of love of heavenly glory. If they did not fear me, they would not serve me. ***5 The third are the ones who believe me to be the Creator of all things and true God and who believe me to be just and merciful. They do not serve me out of any fear of punishment but out of divine love and charity. 2 ] They would prefer any punishment, if they could bear it, rather than once provoke me to anger. They truly deserve to be heard when they pray, since their will accords with my will. 6 The first kind of servant will never depart from punishment or get to see my face. The second will not be punished as much but will still not get to see my face, unless he corrects his fear through penitence."

en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Revelations_of_Saint_Birgitta#Chapte r_14_-Advice_on_Prayer.3B_on_Three_Groups_of People_Who_Serve_God_for_the_Wrong_Reaso ns

does that mean that having Imperfect Contrition/servile fear are insufficient for salvation?
 
Private revelation can never “debunk” any Church teaching or tradition. 🙂
 
Alexander_Smith said:
Private revelation can never “debunk” any Church teaching or tradition. 🙂
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A few of these private revelations might even be from God. That is why the Church examines them - to test the spirits. To the OP: Compare this private revelation to the parable in Luke 12:42-48. Quite similar in principle.
 
First, private revelation is always to be considered fallible, and it is always to be judged against the teachings of scripture and tradition. If private revelation contradicts the Church, the revelation must be rejected. Even saints and very holy people can sometimes err in their private revelations. They might be deceived, or they might misinterpret what has been revealed to them. Stick with the magistereum and won’t go wrong.

Secondly, I don’t even think that revelation conflicts with the claim that imperfect contrition is sufficient for sacramental absolution. It says that those who serve God out of fear will not see his face.i.e. they will not enjoy the beatific vision. This does not mean that they will be damned. For all that revelation says, someone who serves god out of fear and avoids mortal sin can be saved. They will, however, have to be converted to a greater love of God in purgatory before they can enter the beatific vision.
 
Cleanthes said:
First, private revelation is always to be considered fallible, and it is always to be judged against the teachings of scripture and tradition. If private revelation contradicts the Church, the revelation must be rejected. Even saints and very holy people can sometimes err in their private revelations. They might be deceived, or they might misinterpret what has been revealed to them. Stick with the magistereum and won’t go wrong.

Secondly, I don’t even think that revelation conflicts with the claim that imperfect contrition is sufficient for sacramental absolution. It says that those who serve God out of fear will not see his face.i.e. they will not enjoy the beatific vision. This does not mean that they will be damned. For all that revelation says, someone who serves god out of fear and avoids mortal sin can be saved. They will, however, have to be converted to a greater love of God in purgatory before they can enter the beatific vision.
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Amen! 👍
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I came across a PR from St. Bridget of Sweden a couple months ago. Here’s what the Lord said to her…

"There are three kinds of people who serve me in this world. The first are the ones who believe me to be God and the giver of all things who has power over everything. They serve me with the intention of obtaining temporal goods and honor, but the things of heaven are as nothing to them, and they would just as soon lose them so that they can obtain present goods. Worldly success in everything falls to their share, according to their wishes. Since they have lost the eternal goods, I recompense them with temporal comforts for whatever good service they do for me, right down to the last farthing 1 ] and their very last moment. 4 ***The second are the ones who believe me to be God almighty and a strict judge, but who serve me out of fear of punishment and not out of love of heavenly glory. If they did not fear me, they would not serve me. ***5 The third are the ones who believe me to be the Creator of all things and true God and who believe me to be just and merciful. They do not serve me out of any fear of punishment but out of divine love and charity. 2 ] They would prefer any punishment, if they could bear it, rather than once provoke me to anger. They truly deserve to be heard when they pray, since their will accords with my will. 6 The first kind of servant will never depart from punishment or get to see my face. The second will not be punished as much but will still not get to see my face, unless he corrects his fear through penitence."

en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Revelations_of_Saint_Birgitta#Chapte r_14_-Advice_on_Prayer.3B_on_Three_Groups_of People_Who_Serve_God_for_the_Wrong_Reaso ns

does that mean that having Imperfect Contrition/servile fear are insufficient for salvation?
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Private revelations cannot add to or take away anything from Church teachings.
 
People who don’t love God, aren’t going to Heaven. Nothing controversial about that.

I hope.

Extracts from such material as the Revelations of St. Bridget of Sweden should be treated with great care and reverence, and if something seems to conflict, attempts made to seek a deeper understanding and reconcile rather than hmm… putting it away as ‘private revelation’.

Schieler in ‘Theory and Practice of the Confessional’ goes into the different theories on what suffices within imperfect contrition to gain sanctifying grace.

Actually, the theories talk about love in there too. For example, one opinion is:

'The sorrow proceeding from servile fear is attritio, that imperfect sorrow which, when it excludes the desire of sinning and is joined to the hope of pardon, disposes the sinner to receive the grace of justification in the Sacrament of Penance. It may now be asked whether, along with this imperfect sorrow based on fear as its only motive, there may not be required besides, in order to dispose the sinner proxime for the receiving of grace, some sort of love, at least initial, or whether this love be included in that sorrow.

On this subject the Council has given no direct answer. In the seventeenth century this question was debated with such heat that Alexander VII, in order to establish peace, forbade, in the strongest terms and under pain of excommunication latiae sententae, that any of the disputants in this matter should accuse their opponents of heresy. Four distinct views were proposed and defended on this subject:

. . . The second opinion holds that the sorrow based on fear is sufficient only when there is joined with it some beginning of the love of God, as our highest good. This view supported by the most eminent theologians rests on solid foundations, and is now the more usual opinion among theologians. That there is nothing in this view opposed to the Council of Trent is clear from what has been said above on this point. In another place in the Sixth Session (cap. 6) there is indirect authority for it, where the Council, in describing the progress towards preparation for in first grace, teaches that the sinner who is disposing his soul for justification must begin to love God as the source of all justice.

Hence as preparation for the first justification of adults a beginning at least of love is required.’
 
Perhaps what was meant was that penitence (in the sense of the Sacrament of Penance…confession…) was needed in the case of imperfect contrition…which is the case ( of course God can come with his grace…even at the last moment of life…)

In any case here is the Teaching of the Church:

Catechism:

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52
 
so what exactly does “a beginning love of God as our highest good” mean?
 
Bookcat said:
use the explaination from the CCC
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so imperfect contrition has to start from perfect contriton? (arises from the love of God above all things…like it said in the CCC)

. . . The second opinion holds that the sorrow based on fear is sufficient only when there is joined with it some beginning of the love of God, as our highest good. This view supported by the most eminent theologians rests on solid foundations, and is now the more usual opinion among theologians. That there is nothing in this view opposed to the Council of Trent is clear from what has been said above on this point. In another place in the Sixth Session (cap. 6) there is indirect authority for it, where the Council, in describing the progress towards preparation for in first grace, teaches that the sinner who is disposing his soul for justification must begin to love God as the source of all justice.

thats what i was asking about in the previous post
 
Ben_Sinner said:
so imperfect contrition has to start from perfect contriton? (arises from the love of God above all things…like it said in the CCC)
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No…( I think you typed that backwards)…

But it can happen that one begins with imperfect …and later has perfect.

They are both contrition of course. And a person with perfect contrition can also have other motives present as well…along with the perfect contrition…
 
Bookcat said:
No…( I think you typed that backwards)…

But it can happen that one begins with imperfect …and later has perfect.

They are both contrition of course. And a person with perfect contrition can also have other motives present as well…along with the perfect contrition…
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Ok, so if it happened to be true that imperfect contrition must start from perfect contrition then the imperfect contrition wouldn’t be needed in the first place sense the prior perfect contrition already forgave the sins so that wouldn’t make sense and therfore must be delcared false? (sorry if that sounds really confusing :))
 
Ben_Sinner said:
Ok, so if it happened to be true that imperfect contrition must start from perfect contrition then the imperfect contrition wouldn’t be needed in the first place sense the prior perfect contrition already forgave the sins so that wouldn’t make sense and therfore must be delcared false? (sorry if that sounds really confusing :))
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🙂
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I came across a PR from St. Bridget of Sweden a couple months ago. Here’s what the Lord said to her…

"There are three kinds of people who serve me in this world. The first are the ones who believe me to be God and the giver of all things who has power over everything. They serve me with the intention of obtaining temporal goods and honor, but the things of heaven are as nothing to them, and they would just as soon lose them so that they can obtain present goods. Worldly success in everything falls to their share, according to their wishes. Since they have lost the eternal goods, I recompense them with temporal comforts for whatever good service they do for me, right down to the last farthing 1 ] and their very last moment. 4 ***The second are the ones who believe me to be God almighty and a strict judge, but who serve me out of fear of punishment and not out of love of heavenly glory. If they did not fear me, they would not serve me. ***5 The third are the ones who believe me to be the Creator of all things and true God and who believe me to be just and merciful. They do not serve me out of any fear of punishment but out of divine love and charity. 2 ] They would prefer any punishment, if they could bear it, rather than once provoke me to anger. They truly deserve to be heard when they pray, since their will accords with my will. 6 The first kind of servant will never depart from punishment or get to see my face. The second will not be punished as much but will still not get to see my face, unless he corrects his fear through penitence."

en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Revelations_of_Saint_Birgitta#Chapte r_14_-Advice_on_Prayer.3B_on_Three_Groups_of People_Who_Serve_God_for_the_Wrong_Reaso ns

does that mean that having Imperfect Contrition/servile fear are insufficient for salvation?
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Who am I to go against ST. Bridget. She has it right. Although everyone is put in one of three categories, somewhere there must be room for that lost lamb that Jesus so loved.
Maybe somewhere else in her book. And of course the man who died on the right of Jesus, where is he? And those unbaptised infants. And the seed that fell on good ground which yielded different amounts. and so on and on. I really think it is a little more messy than just three categories. And then there are those who go up and down the ladder of categories as well. He is the loving Father of us all looking after His children who are all different and have different needs at different times. (St. Bridget forgive me and please look the other way on this one, I still admire you and need you prayers.)

But as far as contrition, it looks good.​

“…love everyone,especially the brothern.” Paul, murderer and convert.
 
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