Does Vicarius Filii Dei = 666?

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MarkA16

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I was discussing about how the Catholic Church can’t be the Whore of Babylon in a different forum. The poster also mentions that the Roman Numerals in names of the CC equal out as 666.

For example:
IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO (John Paul II)
Ioanes - 1
pavlvs - 60
secvndo - 605

and

VICARIVS FILII DEI
Vicarivs - 112
Filii - 53
Dei - 501

I don’t know how to counter that.
 
This was a response given to a woman with an anti-Catholic Seventh Day Adventist son-in-law:
Let’s consider this accusation. Latin, Greek, and Hebrew have numerical values assigned to various letters in their alphabets. In Latin the values are: I=1, V=5, X=10, L=50, C=100, D=500, M=1,000. By extension W=10 (because W=VV, or two Vs together), and U=V (because there was no letter U for the Romans; where you see the letter U in modern writing, use the letter V instead).
As you can work out for yourself, Vicarius Filii Dei does add up to 666 in Latin: Vicarius=112; Filii=53, Dei=501. (Ignore letters which are not assigned a numerical value.) The problem is that Vicarius Filii Dei is not a title of the pope. One of his titles, in fact his chief title, is Vicarius Christi (Vicar of Christ), but, unfortunately for Seventh-Day Adventists and other anti-Catholics who attempt to use this ploy, Vicarius Christi adds up to only a measly 214, not the infernal 666.
Since the average person, Catholic or Protestant, hasn’t the foggiest idea what the pope’s titles are in Latin or English, anti-Catholics (some of whom know better) can get away with this subterfuge.
But what if one of the pope’s titles did add up to 666? Would that coincidence prove the pope is the beast? Hardly. It would prove nothing because lots of names and titles add up to 666. By using a nifty little technique you can force a Seventh-Day Adventist to admit that the addition to 666 proves nothing, even when it’s a papal title that’s in question. Here’s how.
Have your son-in-law do the math, and he’ll be shocked to learn that the name of the woman who started Seventh-Day Adventism, Ellen Gould White, adds up to 666: Ellen=100, Gould=555, White=11. Ask him whether this “proves” that the foundress of his religion was the beast? If he says “No,” then the tallying of the name means nothing. If he says “Yes,” then what’s he doing belonging to a church founded by the beast? Either way his argument collapses. (Isn’t apologetics fun?)
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–source newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock92.htm
 
Sure it does. Thankfully, Vicarivs Filivs Dei is not, nor has it ever been a title of the Pope. This little anti-Catholic gem was created by the Seventh-Day Adventists in an effort to discredit the “godless Papists.”
 
MilesXpisti said:
…This little anti-Catholic gem was created by the Seventh-Day Adventists in an effort to discredit the “godless Papists.”
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This title is a fraudulent one created out of nothing by Ellen Gould White, inventor of the SDAs. You will never find it in a Catholic document (or tiara, as the legend usually goes).

Interestingly, if you take the Roman numberals used in Ellen G. White’s name it adds up to 666.

How’s that for irony?!?

God Bless,
RyanL
 
RyanL said:
This title is a fraudulent one created out of nothing by Ellen Gould White, inventor of the SDAs. You will never find it in a Catholic document (or tiara, as the legend usually goes).

Interestingly, if you take the Roman numberals used in Ellen G. White’s name it adds up to 666.

How’s that for irony?!?

God Bless,
RyanL
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Yes, I have seen this before and I don’t find it quite so funny as I do poetic, as defamation of God’s Holy Church is an act of the spirit of Antichrist.
 
Karl Keating said in Catholicism and Fundamentalism that Martin Luther’s name also adds up to 666.

So how do you counter that charge?

By simply saying, so what?
 
MarkA16 said:
I was discussing about how the Catholic Church can’t be the Whore of Babylon in a different forum. The poster also mentions that the Roman Numerals in names of the CC equal out as 666.

For example:
IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO (John Paul II)
Ioanes - 1
pavlvs - 60
secvndo - 605

and

VICARIVS FILII DEI
Vicarivs - 112
Filii - 53
Dei - 501

I don’t know how to counter that.
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Well, you could start by reminding them that “Vicarius Filii Dei” is not a title of the Pope (nor is it found on the Papal tiara). It’s a title (from one of the more famed forgeries of history, the Donation of Constantine) that other people use to prove a 666-antichrist-papacy connection and to show that, no matter who is Pope, the papacy and the Catholic Church are not of God. Also, Catholic apologists mention (to Seventh-Day Adventists in particular) that Ellen Gould White’s name totals 666 when given the same treatment.

Also, compare This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six. (Rev. 13:18) with Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold (1 Kings 10:14). I don’t exactly know what to make of the connection: Solomon asked for wisdom before all else (yet fell into idolatry) and received a yearly tribute of 666 talents of gold, and John writes in Revelation that wisdom is necessary to discern the identity of the beast, whose number is 666.
 
right the whole thing is based on a forgery and an non-existent inscription. The SDA had to even make up their drawing of it on the papal “crown”
 
My wife often brings up that numerology is considered to be a form of divination and that the church condemns such things. She then asks how those folks can justify engaging in something like that.

This also debunks it.

It’s hooey!
 
MarkA16 said:
For example:
IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO (John Paul II)
Ioanes - 1
pavlvs - 60
secvndo - 605
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My Latin is a bit rusty, but I belive this is incorrect. John Paul II in Latin would be Ioannes Paulus Secundus or IOANNES PAVLVS SECVNDVS in the nominative case (Secundus needs to agree with Ioannes Paulus).

IOANNES = 1
PAVLVS = 60
SECVNDVS = 610

or 671 not 666.
 
Benedictus said:
My Latin is a bit rusty, but I belive this is incorrect. John Paul II in Latin would be Ioannes Paulus Secundus or IOANNES PAVLVS SECVNDVS in the nominative case (Secundus needs to agree with Ioannes Paulus).

IOANNES = 1
PAVLVS = 60
SECVNDVS = 610

or 671 not 666.
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Missed it by THAT much!

(Would you believe it? A hundred antichrists and a hundred doberman pinschers… Would you believe fifty antichrists and a bloodhound? How about a raving loony?)
 
Could it just be that they changed it to “Christ” instead of “Son of God” because they new it = 666? Anyways, Christ is the Son of God. How would you counter that? that the maybe the CC changed it because of that reason?
 
I dont care what there names add up to they dont fullfill the prophcies and biblical points of the beast only the paple power does, And the paple power will lead the end days into desolation it will be 1000000000 X worse than what it did in the dark ages the bible says
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That’s what he said after I said almost everything that you guys said and what I researched on.
 
MarkA16 said:
That’s what he said after I said almost everything that you guys said and what I researched on.
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If he believes that tell him my horoscope says he’s full of it.

Just quote him 2 Peter 3:16 and tell him numerology is BS.
 
Unitas said:
If he believes that tell him my horoscope says he’s full of it.

Just quote him 2 Peter 3:16 and tell him numerology is BS.
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I don’t think it’s the numerology that matters, but the Catholic Church being the one that fits with what the Book of Revelation talks about.

He then says this:
Catholic rome is Pagan rome.
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If you feel like defending the abonination you have a hard task ahead of you we can start with the four kingdoms prophecy if you like the prophecy of nebakanezzas(sp?) dream the kingdom of Iron and identifiying the fourth beast.
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This thread (not in this forum) was titled " The Pope is the Anti-Christ clearly beyond any doubt.". The forum is mostly Protestant. I’m like one of the few Catholics on this forum. I’m the only one currently online. I seem to be losing now. I don’t know crud really. 😦 I might just end my discussion with him since I don’t know anything about what he just said.
 
You need to practice focusing on a point and defeating someone one it.

Once he said he didn’t care about the numbers adding up then you should ask this question.

Do you concede the point and retract the statements regarding the adding up to 666 of the false title of the Pope?
Do you admit that the accusation is based upon a lie?

You need to focus on defeating him not allowing him to just walk away and attack with another point, or else he will just attack until you have no answer and claim victory.
A defense which just allows for continuous attacks will eventually just crumble, unless you are extremely persistant and studied.

He admitted that he has a false basis for attacking the Church do not let him brush it off and get away with it or else he will just keep attacking.

If you would like any advice or help with this PM me,
God Bless
Scylla
 
MarkA16 said:
That’s what he said after I said almost everything that you guys said and what I researched on.
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And that tells you he is not honestly open to truth.

If I hand a guy straight up facts as to any case and he then turns to me and makes that kind of statement, then I simply walk away. Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off even the dust of your feet, for a testimony against them.
MarkA16 said:
I don’t think it’s the numerology that matters, but the Catholic Church being the one that fits with what the Book of Revelation talks about.
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Yet it has been shown many times over that this is complete malarkey. Here and Here.
He then says this:
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This thread (not in this forum) was titled " The Pope is the Anti-Christ clearly beyond any doubt.". The forum is mostly Protestant. I’m like one of the few Catholics on this forum. I’m the only one currently online. I seem to be losing now. I don’t know crud really. 😦 I might just end my discussion with him since I don’t know anything about what he just said.
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Mark…you don’t belong there. Not yet anyway…

I’m sorry, but I see so many Catholics dive into apologetics before they are ready and get creamed like this. It’s sad.

Look people, I know that apologetics seems just hellacool and all that, but the fact is that the first priority of being an apologist is to teach our own the faith, (a task that currently cries out to God for help in most of our parishes!).

I have had some folks PM me and write me and tell me that I am some sort of hotshot apologetics dude and have really blessed them and every time I get that I send them back Luke 17:10. Every last post that I make here that is apologetic in nature is the result of the Holy Spirit keeping the promise of Our Lord in Luke 21:15 and over three (Yeah 3!) years of diligent study of the Word of God and and every Catholic source I could get my hands on just to get to where I was about 2 1/2 years ago when I first joined this forum. Yes, I know a good bit and nothing surprises me but that is because I spent over 34 years outside of the Church and was as diligent in study there as I am as a Catholic. I know my way around most n-C theology and can pretty quickly see where any given tack is going, but the average guy can’t do that. My “skills” didn’t happen overnight by any means and they are the result of absorbing a tremendous amount of teaching from both Catholics and non-Catholics. I know the Bible better than most non-Catholics, even those who have sought to “witness” to me and convert me away from the faith. There is no substitute for reading that Bible daily and absorbing it so that you can see where it clearly supports Catholic teachings, and where n-Cs/a-Cs have ignored vital passages.

I’m sorry guys, but jumping into those n-C/a-C forums is something that even I have ceased doing because of the very stuff that Matt is talking about here. Those that the Holy Spirit leads to seek the fullness of truth will find us here, (Or DCF, CCF, OBOB, or Catholic Central and any of the other good Catholic fora!) but going there is crazy, and more like jumping headlong into a snake pit.

If you’re good at apologetics and catechesis, stay here or on the Catholic fora and share what you know and deal with the n-Cs here where you can learn and grow stronger and build each other up in our most holy faith. The rest is the work of the Holy Spirit.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
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