Does Vicarius Filii Dei = 666?

[patrick457]

This title is a fraudulent one created out of nothing by Ellen Gould White, inventor of the SDAs. You will never find it in a Catholic document (or tiara, as the legend usually goes).

Interestingly, if you take the Roman numberals used in Ellen G. White’s name it adds up to 666.

How’s that for irony?!?

God Bless,
RyanL

Actually, the only time the ‘Vicarius Filii Dei’ is used is in the fake document ‘The Donation of Constantine’.
And it’s not even used as a Papal Title there!

In The Donation of Constantine, ‘Vicarius Filii Dei’ is used as a title for St. Peter. The Pope is termed as ‘Vicarius Petri’ (Vicar of Peter). So, will they now claim that one of Jesus’ Apostles is the Antichrist?

 

[patrick457]

I don’t think it’s the numerology that matters, but the Catholic Church being the one that fits with what the Book of Revelation talks about.

He then says this:

Catholic rome is Pagan rome.

Alright then. How could Pagan Rome be the same as Catholic Rome? Ask him for claims to back up his accusation.
He should not just drop statements like that without backing up his claims. Ask him for his source, the citations and all that.

And, please ask him to correct his spelling, if you may. It’s really hard to read his words without proper spelling and punctuation.

 

[tee_eff_em]

My Latin is a bit rusty, but I belive this is incorrect. John Paul II in Latin would be Ioannes Paulus Secundus or IOANNES PAVLVS SECVNDVS in the nominative case (Secundus needs to agree with Ioannes Paulus).

IOANNES = 1
PAVLVS = 60
SECVNDVS = 610

or 671 not 666.

To continue picking nits off this dead horse:

The Servant of God, John Paul II signed his name with a “J”, not an *“I” *-- I suppose we can still allow *“J” *to count 1 (since we are counting *U *and *V *equivalent, anyway), however: Neither he, nor anyone else would spell out *SECVNDVS *in this context. Rather:

JOANNES PAULUS PP II (the *“PP” *is an abreviation for Papa)

*JOANNES *= 1
*PAULUS *= 60
*PP *= 0
*II *= 2

For the anticlimactic total of: 63


tee

 

[MarkA16]

You are right Church Militant. I guess one of the reasons why I go to that forum is to see how much I know and just dying to share it and also to find out what else I need to know, like a way of exercising myself. I guess this is not the way to exercise it. This person I’m talking with is way older, has taken college courses that go over these things I don’t know about.

For example:

Doesnt matter what they call it these days, pagan or not its still the same power

But since you bought it up, whoa where do i start.

Lent which is a 30 day weeping for Tamuz whcih begins on Fat tuesday with the gay and lesbian mardigras

Celebration on the date of December 25th which is not the date of Christs birth it is infact the date of the birth of Tamuz the pagan messiah

Mary worshiped as the Mother of God and co redeemer

belief of salvtion through sacraments/rituals

Purgatory

Absolouty flooded with pagan sybolism ( Ankh, Sunburst

Sun worship / Tamuz worship / Ancient Pagan sun worship and symbolism / Sunday worship

Ostensorium Worship

Bowing down to statues of Mary, Jesus, Lady Fatima, Pope, Pictures of Pope

“Saint” worship/ Praying to “saints” and “saint” holidays

Seeking help from the dead

Mithraism

Eucharist/Transubstantiation

Pope worship / Replacement for God worship (Council of Pontiffs of Babylon)

Occult Candles

Exorcism

Body part worship

Witchcraft

Papal Martyrology

Eternal Torment

Praying for/to the dead

Valentines day

Male only preists

Homosexual orientation

Pilgrimages and the veneration of relics

Vain repetitions (the rosary)

Littering the vulgate with Satyrs Witches Dragons Cockatrices

WHEN CAN I STOP ??

There are some that I can explain but not all. And those that I can’t, he just opened up another door for me to learn about it.

 

[scylla]

An answer to that long list of malarky is to tell him to pick one if he really cares about truth.
State it like that.

“If you really care about truth I will pick one and we will both discuss it. If you just want to post lists of accusations I will point you to a book to read as those all have been answered, and it is not honest to use the shotgun approach to discussing faith, just asking question after question is a technique that is used to just overwhelm the opponent rather than speak truth.”

Get him to agree to discuss one subject.
Then pick one easy one to refute and don’t let him off the hook, until he admits he is dishonest or mistaken.

State that you will take all those and study them and get back to him. Come here and learn how to answer the questions.
Most anti-catholics are not concerned with truth, but rather with finding ways to overwhelm Catholics, this is why even if they are proven wrong they will just ask another question.
Don’t let them do that or it will never end.
The devil is the father of lies and since all objections to the Catholic faith are based upon lies the objections are endless, though baseless.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Melissa]

Well–I’d tell him to stop at one item–discuss that and then move on …

Not that it’s likely to be much use (given a mind so closed, ‘nailed shut’ is more open). However, a number of things on that list–I’d be curious if the writer of the list even knows what he’s talking about (I mean, just the first item there has at least four errors that jump out at a casual reading).

 

[heisenburg]

good old boottners (sp) list with some new ones…

First. id jsut ask him would he want to learn about African Americans from the KKK… then ask him why he would think a rabid Anti_Catholic source would provide “truthful” information…

Bigotry is Bigotry… it needs no reason, only hatred.

Tell him, if he really thinks its that evil… Take an RCIA course… all his “offenses” would be taught, and he is more than welcome to rebuke them. However, he must also promise to actually LISTEN to what is taught…

I would also remind him that he is blatantly baring false witness. If he wishes to continue with grave sin, you will pray for him. But Hatred is NOT a sign of christianity…

In Christ

 

[Randy_Carson]

I was discussing about how the Catholic Church can’t be the Whore of Babylon in a different forum. The poster also mentions that the Roman Numerals in names of the CC equal out as 666.

For example:
IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO (John Paul II)
Ioanes - 1
pavlvs - 60
secvndo - 605

and

VICARIVS FILII DEI
Vicarivs - 112
Filii - 53
Dei - 501

I don’t know how to counter that.

In the electronics resources section listed in a sticky above, you’ll find a link to Patrick Madrid’s series on Pope Fiction. This should get you close:

ftp://217.160.246.215/pub/audionet/EWTN_programs/Patrick_Madrid/Pope_Fiction/

One of his shows was dedicated to this very issue, and you can download the mp3 file for free.

 

[MarkA16]

I’m sorry guys, but jumping into those n-C/a-C forums is something that even I have ceased doing because of the very stuff that Matt is talking about here. Those that the Holy Spirit leads to seek the fullness of truth will find us here, (Or DCF, CCF, OBOB, or Catholic Central and any of the other good Catholic fora!) but going there is crazy, and more like jumping headlong into a snake pit.

The forum I’m in is not n/a-C, but just a section for Religion and Politics. If you want the site I will post it.

 

[Reformed1]

I was discussing about how the Catholic Church can’t be the Whore of Babylon in a different forum. The poster also mentions that the Roman Numerals in names of the CC equal out as 666.

For example:
IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO (John Paul II)
Ioanes - 1
pavlvs - 60
secvndo - 605

and

VICARIVS FILII DEI
Vicarivs - 112
Filii - 53
Dei - 501

I don’t know how to counter that.

I haven’t read any of the posts, save this one.

Let’s suppose VICARIVS FILII DEI is:
a.) an “official” (whatever that may mean) title for the pope

and

b.) the letters add up to 666

So what?

It means nothing.

 

[patrick457]

You are right Church Militant. I guess one of the reasons why I go to that forum is to see how much I know and just dying to share it and also to find out what else I need to know, like a way of exercising myself. I guess this is not the way to exercise it. This person I’m talking with is way older, has taken college courses that go over these things I don’t know about.

For example:

Doesnt matter what they call it these days, pagan or not its still the same power

Let’s try and answer his accusations a bit shall we? I’ve skipped the parts that had been refuted over and over again by Catholic Apologists.

Lent which is a 30 day weeping for Tamuz whcih begins on Fat tuesday with the gay and lesbian mardigras-Actually, Lent is 40 Days, not 30. It doesn’t start on Mardi Gras (Fat Tuesday) but on Ash Wednesday.

(And the association of Mardi Gras with homosexuals is strange. As if they existed in large numbers a thousand years ago when these supposed celebrations started!)

And the association of Lent with Tammuz is purely Anti-Catholic canard. Alexander Hislop mentioned it in his work The Two Babylons and Anti-Catholics started parroting it back at us.

Exorcism (But didn’t Jesus and the Apostles also use exorcism? If Catholicism is of the devil, why does it run around and try to exorcise people from demons? Is Satan fighting himself?)

Body Part worship? Perhaps He’s referring to the Sacred Heart Devotion.

Papal Martyrology- How did this get pagan anyway? Why would a list of Popes and/or Saints get pagan? Is it because pagan kings also listed their names in Royal Lists?

Eternal Torment- Doesn’t all of Christianity preach a place of Eternal Torment? Didn’t Jesus refer to it? (Unless of course he is either denying the authenticity of Hell OR he refers to Purgatory, which certainly doesn’t fit the ‘Eternal Torment’ title).

Male only priests-Jesus chose His closest disciples to be only men.

Homosexual orientation- By saying this, is he meaning the Church’s stance on Homosexuality? or the recent Priest Abusers scandal?

Littering the vulgate with Satyrs Witches Dragons Cockatrices-This has got to be one of the weirdest. So does that mean any book that has mythical creatures in it is pagan?

For example take ‘Basiliscus’ which means ‘Basilisk’ (Only in Medieval times did the Basilisk and Cockatrice considered one and the same). It appears in Psalm 91:13.

The KJV renders it as:

13Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

but the Vulgate renders it as (from the Douay-Rheims)

Thou shalt walk upon the asp and the basilisk: and thou shalt trample under foot the lion and the dragon.

But not only the Vulgate rendered it as ‘Asp and Basilisk, Lion and Dragon’ instead of ‘Lion and Adder, young lion and the dragon’ but even the Septuagint (an old translation of the OT into Greek by Jews from between 3rd and 1st Century BC) rendered it also as such.

Vulgate: Super aspidem et basiliscum ambulabis,
et conculcabis leonem et draconem.

Septuagint: Ep’ aspida kai basiliskon epibese kai katapateseis leonta kai drakonta

The Ancient Greeks and Romans believed the Basilisk and the dragon to be a real animal existing somewhere, which probably explains why the translators of the Septuagint and Jerome used the word.

While the Basilisk symbol was also later used in Alchemy, it does not mean it’s immediately pagan or evil.

And about ‘Dragons’ and ‘Witches’…Doesn’t ALL Bibles describe Satan as the ‘Dragon, the Ancient Serpent’?
And what about the commands of Moses and the story of Saul and the Witch of Endor, do they not contain the word ‘witch’, ‘sorcery’, ‘necromancer’ yet they are still included in all Bibles?

 

[thetruthoooo]

Hi,

Lets calculate the real value of the name Ellen Gould White. Let us first see, how is that name written in the original latin alphabet.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Latin_alphabet

Here one can read:
“C stood for /g/”
“V stood for both /u/ and /w/”

Thats why the name would be written as ELLEN COVLD VHITE.
ELLEN = 100
COVLD = 655
VHITE = 6

The sum is 761. Everyone who claims that Ellen Gould White = 666 lies. Sorry to tell you that, but thats the truth.

Thanks for reading and God bless you!

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi,

Lets calculate the real value of the name Ellen Gould White. Let us first see, how is that name written in the original latin alphabet.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Latin_alphabet

Here one can read:
“C stood for /g/”
“V stood for both /u/ and /w/”

Thats why the name would be written as ELLEN COVLD VHITE.
ELLEN = 100
COVLD = 655
VHITE = 6

The sum is 761. Everyone who claims that Ellen Gould White = 666 lies. Sorry to tell you that, but thats the truth.

Thanks for reading and God bless you!That’s funny, you Adventists invented this anti-Catholic polemic to begin with, but then look at what Karl Keating points out in one of his e-letters here at CAF.

Well, two mistakes here. “Vicarius Filii Dei” is not a title of the Pope. The proper title is “Vicarius Christi.” And “Vicarius Filii Dei” does not mean “In place of the Son of God” but “Vicar [Representative] of the Son of God.” The translation given in the ad suggests that the Pope shoves aside the Son of God and takes over his place.

                        In fact, the ad claims that this incorrect title means that the Pope is                             calling himself God. Even if this were a title of the Pope, that would                             not be its import, and the proper title, "Vicarius Christi" ("Vicar                             [Representative] of Christ") is even further removed from such a                             misconstrual.

                        Just in case the reader does not find the bogus title sufficiently                             alarming, the ad goes on to note that the numerical value of the letters                             in "Vicarius Filii Dei" add up to 666, the number of the Beast. Quite                             so, but note that the title "Vicarius Christi" does not add up to 666.                             The Adventists turned to a similar-sounding title because they needed                             the right tally. It would do them no good to use a real Latin title for                             the Pope, if that title adds up only to 214, which is the case with                             "Vicarius Christi."

                        ...

                        All this seems nearly irrefutable, but I espy a weakness. The composers                             of the ad left out an important numerical clue to the Beast's identity.                             The five phrases or titles given are not the only ones that add up to                             666. There is one more that might be considered.

                        You can perform the tally yourself, keeping in mind that in Roman                             numerals D=500, L=50, U=5, W=U+U=10, and I=1. You will arrive at 666, by                             summing the letters in the name Ellen Gould White.

                        And who was Ellen Gould White? Why, she was the founder of the                             Seventh-Day Adventist church, of course!

I’ve read some of her stuff and frankly I think she’d have made better money if she had written fantasy and fiction which is what she appears to be better at.

Just remember people that this particular anti-Catholic cult has already predicted the date and time of Christ’s return several times (in complete and direct contravention of teh New Testament!) and needless to say been wrong every time.

So then, what does the Bible say about such (false) prophets?
Deuteronomy 18:21 And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken? 22 Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I was discussing about how the Catholic Church can’t be the Whore of Babylon in a different forum. The poster also mentions that the Roman Numerals in names of the CC equal out as 666.

For example:
IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO (John Paul II)
Ioanes - 1
pavlvs - 60
secvndo - 605

and

VICARIVS FILII DEI
Vicarivs - 112
Filii - 53
Dei - 501

I don’t know how to counter that.

Some contoversialists argue that one of the pope’s supposed titles–they invariably give Vicarius Filii Dei, which means “Vicar of the Son of God”–adds up to 666 in Latin numerals. [Vicarius = V(5) + I(1) + C(100) + I(1) + U (5) = 112, Filii = I(1) + L(50) + I(1) + I(1) = 53, Dei = D(500) + I(1) = 501. 112 + 53 + 501 = 666 (the remaining letters in the title have no numerical values in Latin)].

This argument fails because:

1. Vicarius Filii Dei, although it adds up to 666*, *is *not *a title of the pope;
2. it is similar to one of his authentic titles,* Vicarius Christi*, which does not add up to 666;
3. the mark probably is the number of a man’s name, not a man’s title, and
4. many people’s names can be made to total 666.

It doesn’t follow that because a person’s name can be made to total 666, he is the beast.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

This title is a fraudulent one created out of nothing by Ellen Gould White, inventor of the SDAs. You will never find it in a Catholic document (or tiara, as the legend usually goes).

Interestingly, if you take the Roman numberals used in Ellen G. White’s name it adds up to 666.

How’s that for irony?!?

God Bless,
RyanL

Here are two apostolic constitutions of Pope Paul IV found in the Vatican website. In which he uses the title Vicarius Filii Dei. Thus verifying it as an official papal title.

Bafianae (January 11, 1968), Decree of Paul VI elevating the Prefecture Apostolic of Bafia, Cameroon, to a Diocese:
Acta Apostolicae Sedis, Commentarium Officiale, vol. LX (1968), n. 6, pp. 317-319. Libreria Editrice Vaticana. ISBN 8820960680, 9788820960681.
Scans: Title page - 317 - 318 - 319.

Adorandi Dei Filii Vicarius et Procurator, quibus numen aeternum summam Ecclesiae sanctae dedit, …
Honorable Vicar of God’s Son and Caretaker, which by divine will has been eternally given the highest rank of the holy Church, …

Rivi Muniensis (August 9, 1965), Decree Decree of Paul VI creating the Vicariate Apostolic of Río Muni, Equatorial Guinea:
Acta Apostolicae Sedis, Commentarium Officiale, vol. LVIII (1966), n. 6, pp. 421-422. Libreria Editrice Vaticana, ISBN 8820960664, 9788820960667.
Scans: Title page - 421 - 422.

 

[Eucharisted]

Here are two apostolic constitutions of Pope Paul IV found in the Vatican website. In which he uses the title Vicarius Filii Dei. Thus verifying it as an official papal title.

Bafianae (January 11, 1968), Decree of Paul VI elevating the Prefecture Apostolic of Bafia, Cameroon, to a Diocese:
Acta Apostolicae Sedis, Commentarium Officiale, vol. LX (1968), n. 6, pp. 317-319. Libreria Editrice Vaticana. ISBN 8820960680, 9788820960681.
Scans: Title page - 317 - 318 - 319.

Adorandi Dei Filii Vicarius et Procurator, quibus numen aeternum summam Ecclesiae sanctae dedit, …
Honorable Vicar of God’s Son and Caretaker, which by divine will has been eternally given the highest rank of the holy Church, …

Rivi Muniensis (August 9, 1965), Decree Decree of Paul VI creating the Vicariate Apostolic of Río Muni, Equatorial Guinea:
Acta Apostolicae Sedis, Commentarium Officiale, vol. LVIII (1966), n. 6, pp. 421-422. Libreria Editrice Vaticana, ISBN 8820960664, 9788820960667.
Scans: Title page - 421 - 422.

Source: biblelight.net/Sources.htm

Yeah, nice try.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Here they are again with links to their sites

Bafianae (January 11, 1968), Decree of Paul VI elevating the Prefecture Apostolic of Bafia, Cameroon, to a Diocese:
Acta Apostolicae Sedis, Commentarium Officiale, vol. LX (1968), n. 6, pp. 317-319. Libreria Editrice Vaticana. ISBN 8820960680, 9788820960681.
Scans: Title page - 317 - 318 - 319.
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19680111_bafianae_lt.html

Rivi Muniensis (August 9, 1965), Decree Decree of Paul VI creating the Vicariate Apostolic of Río Muni, Equatorial Guinea:
Acta Apostolicae Sedis, Commentarium Officiale, vol. LVIII (1966), n. 6, pp. 421-422. Libreria Editrice Vaticana, ISBN 8820960664, 9788820960667.
Scans: Title page - 421 - 422.
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19650809_rivi-muniensis_lt.html

 

[Pons]

In the 1965 letter, Pope Paul does not use “Vicarius Filii Dei” at all. I’m no Latin expert, but I think Paul uses the title “Vicar of Peter”.

Qui summi Dei numine et voluntate principem locum in Christi Ecclesia, obtinemus, adorandi Filii Dei hic in terris Vicarii Petrique successores…

The most you can claim is that Pope Paul used “Dei Filii Vicarius” in the 1968 letter, but still this is not quite “Vicarius Filii Dei”. Even then, did he use it as an official title? Has any Pope? In both letters his official titles “Episcopus” and “Servus Servorum Dei” are on the letterheads.

The Catholic Church teaches that all bishops, in fact, are vicars of Christ - not just the bishop of Rome. “Vicar of Peter” is reserved for him, unlike the former. Since Christ is the son of God, it can rightly be said that a vicar of Christ is a vicar of the son of God. Going by the particular Protestant reasoning that the “vicar of the son of god” is the Beast of the Revelation, all Catholic bishops are the Beast. And the whole thing probably stems from a misunderstanding of vicar as “replacement” instead of “representative”, as I’ve seen others do on the forum.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

In the 1965 letter, Pope Paul does not use “Vicarius Filii Dei” at all. I’m no Latin expert, but I think Paul uses the title “Vicar of Peter”.

Qui summi Dei numine et voluntate principem locum in Christi Ecclesia, obtinemus, adorandi Filii Dei hic in terris Vicarii Petrique successores…

The most you can claim is that Pope Paul used “Dei Filii Vicarius” in the 1968 letter, but still this is not quite “Vicarius Filii Dei”. Even then, did he use it as an official title? Has any Pope? In both letters his official titles “Episcopus” and “Servus Servorum Dei” are on the letterheads.

The Catholic Church teaches that all bishops, in fact, are vicars of Christ - not just the bishop of Rome. “Vicar of Peter” is reserved for him, unlike the former. Since Christ is the son of God, it can rightly be said that a vicar of Christ is a vicar of the son of God. Going by the particular Protestant reasoning that the “vicar of the son of god” is the Beast of the Revelation, all Catholic bishops are the Beast. And the whole thing probably stems from a misunderstanding of vicar as “replacement” instead of “representative”, as I’ve seen others do on the forum.

Adorandi Dei Filii Vicarius et Procurator, quibus numen aeternum summam Ecclesiae sanctae dedit, …
Honorable Vicar of God’s Son and Caretaker, which by divine will has been eternally given the highest rank of the holy Church, …

Here’s where it is in the first one.

Qui summi Dei numine et voluntate principem locum in Christi Ecclesia, obtinemus, adorandi Filii Dei hic in terris Vicarii Petrique successores, …
We who the supreme God providentially wills, and maintains, in the principle position over Christ’s Church, the honorable Vicars of the Son of God upon this earth - Peter’s successors, …

Here’s where it is in the second

Here’s what Classics Technology centers Latin to English dictionary says about vicarius

vicari.us N 2 4 NOM S M
vicarius, vicari(i) N M [XXXBO]
substitute, deputy, one acting for another; successor; slave to do one’s work;

vicari.us ADJ 1 1 NOM S M POS
vicarius, vicaria, vicarium ADJ [XXXDO] lesser
substitute; substituted; vicarious; supplying the place of someone/something;

Seems like vicarius means substitute, not representative, as you said. You can see by the translations, that Paul VI is talking of the highest rank of the church which would be the Pope and Peter’s successor which again the CC believes is the Pope.

 

[Pons]

Ah, the dictionary definition strawman. This is regardless of how the term is actually understood by the people using them.