Does what we know about transgender people throw a wrench at Catholic teaching on sex and marriage?

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Jeremiah_29_11 said:
Absolutely and unequivocally UNTRUE.

NO sex-mutilation surgery is OK with the Church. If medical treatments are effective for “intersexed” children, then those would fall under medical treatments, not sex-mutilation surgery.

You really are twisting things to suit your own beliefs, and this has nothing to do with the Church.

If our Church supported such things, it would have fallen long ago.
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72.30.186.176/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=catholic+secret+transsexual+extreme+cases++document&fr=yfp-t-900&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=catholic+secret+transsexual+extreme+cases+document&d=4630924890803474&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=pX4TPriYrHI55vEgWrwaF102eeh2mPnN&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=PX7wR5iklt6REAISJMnJAg–

read it fully then you tell me.
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
I was making a camparison analagy. Be ready I am a compare and contrast machine, especially compare. Also, the catechism doesnt have any of what you aledge in it.
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SP,

What is it you believe that I aledge that is in the Catechism. I have the Audio Catechism USA for adults and I have only been through it 20 times, last count…presently I am studying Life in Christ…

What is it you believe I aledge not found in the Catechism?
 
CopticChristian said:
SP,

What is it you believe that I aledge that is in the Catechism. I have the Audio Catechism USA for adults and I have only been through it 20 times, last count…presently I am studying Life in Christ…

What is it you believe I aledge not found in the Catechism?
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Nothing addressing transgender anything. Ive been thru it about 10 to 12 times myself.
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
Nothing addressing transgender anything. Ive been thru it about 10 to 12 times myself.
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SP,

Are you unable to answer a question?
I was making a camparison analagy. Be ready I am a compare and contrast machine, especially compare. Also, the catechism doesnt have any of what you aledge in it.
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What have I aledged that is not found in the Catechism. You are calling me a liar. Either I am a liar or you have errored. Which is it?
 
CopticChristian said:
SP,

Are you unable to answer a question?

What have I aledged that is not found in the Catechism. You are calling me a liar. Either I am a liar or you have errored. Which is it?
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You have read into something more than whats there or said. People do that all the time. You are human you can make mistakes too.
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
You have read into something more than whats there or said. People do that all the time. You are human you can make mistakes too.
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Stephan ma man,

Your exact words…
Also, the catechism doesnt have any of what you aledge in it.
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**Also…**in addition

**The Catechism…**we all agree that exists

**Doesn’t have…**the formerly referenced Catechism is absent something

**Any of What you aledge…**means that I, me, have suggested something that is not in the Catechism that is absent something…

What is it I have read into this…? Aid me to understand ma man…
 
CopticChristian said:
Stephan ma man,

Your exact words…

**Also…**in addition

**The Catechism…**we all agree that exists

**Doesn’t have…**the formerly referenced Catechism is absent something

**Any of What you aledge…**means that I, me, have suggested something that is not in the Catechism that is absent something…

What is it I have read into this…? Aid me to understand ma man…
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First off Im nat a man second when I was pretending to be male my name wasn’t steve. It Gaylord. There isn’t anything addressing transgender is the catechism, If you see it, its you imagination running wild. I have no imagaination to run wild. One thing people with aspergers don’t have is an imagination.:rolleyes:
 
 
Jeremiah_29_11 said:
I read the article, and it does not support what you are stating. You have twisted information to try and support your position, which doesn’t work here.
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If you didn’t read the like that the church oks some sex chnges in extreme cases , you didnt read all of it. Which doesnt work with me. I know the article is mostly things I disagree with, but the that one oparagraph gives me hope for the church.
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
First off Im nat a man second when I was pretending to be male my name wasn’t steve. It Gaylord. There isn’t anything addressing transgender is the catechism, If you see it, its you imagination running wild. I have no imagaination to run wild. One thing people with aspergers don’t have is an imagination.:rolleyes:
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Gaylord,

You were born male according to your posts.

You have read the Catechism.

You understand Humani Generous addresses Adam and Eve.

The Catechism makes it clear that while you believe that transgender is not in the Catechism…it addresses SSA, Homosexuality and if you want to believe that there is nothing there then you may believe that.

You also are wrong that there is no treatment for GD…it has and can be addressed with therapy…
Ann Med Psychol (Paris). 1978 Nov;136(9):985-1008.
[Psychological treatment of transsexualism and sexual identity disorders some recent attempts].
[Article in French]
Bourgeois M.
Abstract
Psychological treatments of transsexualism and sex gender Dysphoria syndroms. Recent data. There are generally two types of patients requesting sex change operations: one type is the classical but rare transsexual, the others belong to the larger more vague group of sex gender Dysphoria. These syndroms have been felt to be unresponsive to psychotherapy. We review here some recent attempts of psychological treatments which claim to improve satisfaction with biological sex gender identity and result in renonciation of the request of sex reassignment surgery (S.R.S.). These psychotherapies use various methods: Behavior therapy, psychoanalytically-oriented psychotherapy, religious exorcism and conversion. The reports reviewed suggest that sex gender identity may be more malleable than previously thought in transsexual syndrom, at least in relatively youthful subjects. Cases of recent onset of the syndrom which result from a crisis cases underline the necessity for careful evaluation and attempted psychological treatment before undertaking irreversible surgical procedures.
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The scientific world keeps looking for aid to help change those that want to

take deadly hormones
mutilate their bodies

ma man…there is hope…
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
If you didn’t read the like that the church oks some sex chnges in extreme cases , you didnt read all of it. Which doesnt work with me. I know the article is mostly things I disagree with, but the that one oparagraph gives me hope for the church.
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I think your hope is misplaced, Stephanie. That “one paragraph” that you are quoting does not mean that the Church “oks” sex changes in extreme cases.

You. are. wrong.

Period.
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
If you didn’t read the like that the church oks some sex chnges in extreme cases , you didnt read all of it. Which doesnt work with me. I know the article is mostly things I disagree with, but the that one oparagraph gives me hope for the church.
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SP ma man,

The Church asks you to change, the Church ask you to change your mind, not to be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind…even if it imagines that it is a woman when born a man…

No place are we taught to have any hope for the Church, except the hope of Christs return…

Spe Salvi…saved in Hope

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, the mystery hidden for all ages through which the manifold wisdom of God is known, the body of Christ, the Bride of Christ and that Church has not nor will it change and your only hope for the Church is the same hope it has for you…journey to from its origin to its end with it creator…

Hope for reality, cling to the Catechism, not some magazine article…ma man, you dude…hope for what is real.
 
Jeremiah_29_11 said:
I think your hope is misplaced, Stephanie. That “one paragraph” that you are quoting does not mean that the Church “oks” sex changes in extreme cases.

You. are. wrong.

Period.
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Just because you dont see it, dosn’t mean its not there. Or that Im going away on this issue. Im going to harp on it adnauseum.:cool:
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
When Ive seen it dozens of times it is! Bye:p
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I don’t care how many times you’ve seen “it,” none of us has seen the actual document (assuming it even exists) and you are fundamentally not understanding the content of this article, which purports to list some of this supposed document, which has not been verified in any way by the Vatican. The gist of the article is that sexual mutilation surgery is WRONG in every way and doesn’t change a male to a female or a female to a male. No records should be altered since the person hasn’t succeeded in their stated goal to change their gender. God made that person either a male or a female and it’s a psychiatric problem that the person THINKS there is some mistake. Those people should not be allowed to become priests and should be expelled from a religious community if they have such mutilation surgery or have deceived the community in that way.

Anyway, you said you were leaving. Bye again.
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
When Ive seen it dozens of times it is! Bye:p
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Stephanie Godfrey ma man, dude

You came to the CAF to promote an agenda it is clear.

You have studied for 30 years and adhere to the teachings of the DSM IV and DSM V that are prepared by a Politically driven group.

You believe that genetics has something to do with GD when in fact the DSM you refer to says that genetics has nothing to do with it.

You believe brain scans validate a point of view and that is false.

You have been given 3 seperate incidences of resolution for GD…

Hypnotherapy
Medication
Psychotherapy

and your response has not been…wow…there is hope…nope…just dig in the heels and cling to a newspaper article that supports a point of view…

GD is a belief, a desire, a wish, and when all is said and done…you can take hormones that are dangerous and potentialy deadly, you can offer your testicles to the chopping block, you can have your penis amputated an inverted…every cell in your man body will remain XY…you remain a man, always will be a man…and when you have a blood test looking for health screening and your PSA is elevated you may get Prostate Cancer…women don’t get Prostate Cancer and when you have a Pelvic MRI there too will be evidence of a Prostate that no woman on this planet has…

You were born a man, you is a man and you will always be a man…

I shall pray for you…🙂
 
Jeremiah_29_11 said:
Anyway, you said you were leaving. Bye again.
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Part of why I am here, is to stop the mutual admiration of anti tg going on here. No more spreading of misiformation and not having it answered anymore. Most doctors and psychologist dont see things your way, thank God! We are not going to stand by and let our selves be treated like 2nd class citizens.
 
CopticChristian said:
Stephanie Godfrey ma man, dude

You came to the CAF to promote an agenda it is clear.

You have studied for 30 years and adhere to the teachings of the DSM IV and DSM V that are prepared by a Politically driven group.

You believe that genetics has something to do with GD when in fact the DSM you refer to says that genetics has nothing to do with it.

You believe brain scans validate a point of view and that is false.

You have been given 3 seperate incidences of resolution for GD…

Hypnotherapy
Medication
Psychotherapy

and your response has not been…wow…there is hope…nope…just dig in the heels and cling to a newspaper article that supports a point of view…

GD is a belief, a desire, a wish, and when all is said and done…you can take hormones that are dangerous and potentialy deadly, you can offer your testicles to the chopping block, you can have your penis amputated an inverted…every cell in your man body will remain XY…you remain a man, always will be a man…and when you have a blood test looking for health screening and your PSA is elevated you may get Prostate Cancer…women don’t get Prostate Cancer and when you have a Pelvic MRI there too will be evidence of a Prostate that no woman on this planet has…

You were born a man, you is a man and you will always be a man…

I shall pray for you…🙂
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There is no such thing as “reparative” therapy for transgenders. That is a pipe dream. Don’t try to scare me with all the health problems that might occur. You are talking to some who fears living much more than I ever will dieing.
 
Stephanie_Pauls said:
Part of why I am here, is to stop the mutual admiration of anti tg going on here. No more spreading of misiformation and not having it answered anymore. Most doctors and psychologist dont see things your way, thank God! We are not going to stand by and let our selves be treated like 2nd class citizens.
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Stephan Godfrey ma man,

Your notion of brain scans, genetics, newspaper articles support your belief and that belief is supported by faulty information. It should cause you to reflect and ask…

Do I really understand that GD is not genetic and why do I labor expalining genetics, family member with genetic issues, you do not have any genetic issues and genetics has nothing to do with GD.

Do I really understand what a brain scan is used for and have I wrongly used that information to support a faulty belief. Maybe I should rethink this since there is no hard evidence that my brain is different than anyone elses. GD is properly named “dysphoria” and it does not matter what the APA does to change the definition. The DSM I and DSM II appear to have nailed thing correctly
DSM I
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38 MENTAL DISORDERS
000-X60 SodOPATHIC PERSONALITY DISTURBANCE
Individuals to be placed in this category are ill primarily in terms of
society and of conformity with the prevailing cultural milieu, and not only
in terms of personal discomfort and relations with other individuals. However,
sociopathic reactions are very often symptomatic of severe underlying
personality disorder, neurosis, or psychosis, or occur as the result of organic
brain injury or disease. Before a definitive diagnosis in this group is employed,
strict attention must be paid to the possibility of the presence of a
more primary personality disturbance; such underlying disturbance will be
diagnosed when recognized. Reactions will be differentiated as defined
below.
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OOQ-x63 Sexual deviation
This diagnosis is reserved for deviant sexuality which is not symptomatic
of more extensive syndromes, such as schizophrenic and obsessional reactions.
DEFINITION OF TERMS 39
The term includes most of the cases formerly classed as “psychopathic
personality with pathologic sexuality.” The diagnosis will specify the type
of the pathologic behavior, such as homosexuality, transvestism, pedophilia,
fetishism and sexual sadism (including rape, sexual assault, mutilation).
320.6—Sexual deviation
000-x63 057 062
036 060 068
039 061 082
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DSM II
302.0 Sexual orientation disturbance [Homosexuality]
This is for individuals whose sexual interests are directed primarily
toward people of the same sex and who are either disturbed by, in
conflict with, or wish to change their sexual orientation. This diagnostic
category is distinguished from homosexuality, which by itself
does not constitute a psychiatric disorder. Homosexuality per se is
one form of sexual behavior, and with other forms of sexual behavior
which are not by themselves psychiatric disorders, are not
listed in this nomenclature.
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Why have I accepted the DSM IV and DSM V when it is politifcally driven and not based on any science? Am I willing to sacrifice my genitals for a political agenda?

You will always be XY and always have a Prostate…no belief, no desire, no wish, no surgery, no hormone will change that.

There are reports of help to change GD you should look for more. I know I will.

Ma man there is hope…
Part of why I am here, is to stop the mutual admiration of anti tg going on here. No more spreading of misiformation and not having it answered anymore.
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You may want to take your own advice and stop spreading misinformation concerning

Genetics
Brain Scans
No Cure
Vatican Documents that don’t exist

GD is wish, desire, and imagined…man oh man oh man…
 
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