Does your Christian Church/tradition teach about hell?

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People are ignoring the original problem as it is defined “In the Beginning”.

Death, Not Eternal Life in Misery (Hell), is the original problem.

God never says to Adam, “if you eat of this fruit, you will surely go to hell” or “if you disobey me, you will be tormented for all eternity”.

Conversely, what was the lie Satan told to Eve? Didn’t Satan say “surely you will not die”? Satan said nothing to Eve about “going to hell”.

The issue is Death…not Hell.

But Not many believers are scared of death. They’re scared of Hell (the place of eternal torment).

(…but did you catch the suble deception in the above statement?)

Most people believe in the immortal/eternal soul; that regardless of where one ends up (“heaven” or “hell”), one lives/exists forever. Why else would we fear a place of “eternal” torment", unless we believe we’d exist for all eternity regardless of what God chose to do with his son.

But again, Hell was NOT the original problem that Christ came to solve. The lie told to Eve (and Adam) was that, even if they disobeyed God, they would still live (meaning “not die; not cease to exist”).

However what did God say? Didn’t He say that we would die if we disobeyed?

So is “Hell” the problem? Is it real, or is it but another deception on the part of Satan successful for close to 2000 years?

By believing in Hell, aren’t we also saying:
  • that we believe we’re immortal (in soul) by default [self-sustaining life];
  • that once we exist, we will never cease to exist [endless life in ourselves];
  • that God can’t end (cease) us, so His punishment is endless torture;
  • that by believing in our own immortality (of soul), we (by default) still believe in Satan’s original lie to Eve?
 
Joshua27 said:
People are ignoring the original problem as it is defined “In the Beginning”.

Death, Not Eternal Life in Misery (Hell), is the original problem.

God never says to Adam, “if you eat of this fruit, you will surely go to hell” or “if you disobey me, you will be tormented for all eternity”.

Conversely, what was the lie Satan told to Eve? Didn’t Satan say “surely you will not die”? Satan said nothing to Eve about “going to hell”.

The issue is Death…not Hell.

But Not many believers are scared of death. They’re scared of Hell (the place of eternal torment).

(…but did you catch the suble deception in the above statement?)

Most people believe in the immortal/eternal soul; that regardless of where one ends up (“heaven” or “hell”), one lives/exists forever. Why else would we fear a place of “eternal” torment", unless we believe we’d exist for all eternity regardless of what God chose to do with his son.

But again, Hell was NOT the original problem that Christ came to solve. The lie told to Eve (and Adam) was that, even if they disobeyed God, they would still live (meaning “not die; not cease to exist”).

However what did God say? Didn’t He say that we would die if we disobeyed?

So is “Hell” the problem? Is it real, or is it but another deception on the part of Satan successful for close to 2000 years?

By believing in Hell, aren’t we also saying:
  • that we believe we’re immortal (in soul) by default [self-sustaining life];
  • that once we exist, we will never cease to exist [endless life in ourselves];
  • that God can’t end (cease) us, so His punishment is endless torture;
  • that by believing in our own immortality (of soul), we (by default) still believe in Satan’s original lie to Eve?
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Using lots of boldface doesn’t make your interpretations correct.

There are plenty of Scriptures that require that our being is sustained past human death.

This does not contradict Genesis, because to “die” does not mean to come to an end; it means to cease breathing, roll back your eyes, and lose function as a natural human being, all of which, alas, we do.

And I notice that in your .sig, you are plugging a book about 2012 that references the Secrets of Fatima. If you believe in Fatima, you must accept Hell, because the persons involved in Fatima were shown Hell.

ICXC NIKA.
 
Nicea325 said:
Did I say you said it? I am making a point that some people do say the expression: Earth can be a hell.
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When you say the above in response to telling me I don’t understand without clarifying that you were not speaking of me, what on earth do you think I’d think?
 
Joshua27 said:
People are ignoring the original problem as it is defined “In the Beginning”.

Death, Not Eternal Life in Misery (Hell), is the original problem.

God never says to Adam, “if you eat of this fruit, you will surely go to hell” or “if you disobey me, you will be tormented for all eternity”.

Conversely, what was the lie Satan told to Eve? Didn’t Satan say “surely you will not die”? Satan said nothing to Eve about “going to hell”.

The issue is Death…not Hell.

But Not many believers are scared of death. They’re scared of Hell (the place of eternal torment).

(…but did you catch the suble deception in the above statement?)

Most people believe in the immortal/eternal soul; that regardless of where one ends up (“heaven” or “hell”), one lives/exists forever. Why else would we fear a place of “eternal” torment", unless we believe we’d exist for all eternity regardless of what God chose to do with his son.

But again, Hell was NOT the original problem that Christ came to solve. The lie told to Eve (and Adam) was that, even if they disobeyed God, they would still live (meaning “not die; not cease to exist”).

However what did God say? Didn’t He say that we would die if we disobeyed?

So is “Hell” the problem? Is it real, or is it but another deception on the part of Satan successful for close to 2000 years?

By believing in Hell, aren’t we also saying:
  • that we believe we’re immortal (in soul) by default [self-sustaining life];
  • that once we exist, we will never cease to exist [endless life in ourselves];
  • that God can’t end (cease) us, so His punishment is endless torture;
  • that by believing in our own immortality (of soul), we (by default) still believe in Satan’s original lie to Eve?
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Sigh…threads like these always attract those who do not believe in hell. We then show them passages that show that there is eternal torment (like Lazarus and the Rich man) and they dismiss those and ask for more stringent proof. We then show them Revelations and they ask for even more stringent proof.

In brief, belief in Hell does not imply any of those conclusions you posted. “Death” in Genesis was traditionally interpreted as spiritual death (going to hell). I’ll answer the rest of what you said when I get back, and also if you at least acknowledge and respond to what I said (showing that you are sincere and wish to learn more, not debate for the sake of debating).
 
Nicea and Dokimas stop fighting. It was a misinterpretation between you two, a minor mistake in communication.
 
The best description of Hell I’ve ever heard was C.S. Lewis’s “The Great Divorce”.
It’s an eternal state we choose for ourselves by how we live our lives.
 
GEddie said:
Using lots of boldface doesn’t make your interpretations correct.
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Regardless of what you disagree with, making a distinction between titles, support text and emphasis is standard writing. But whatever (lol)…
GEddie said:
There are plenty of Scriptures that require that our being is sustained past human death.

This does not contradict Genesis, because to “die” does not mean to come to an end; it means to cease breathing, roll back your eyes, and lose function as a natural human being, all of which, alas, we do.
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Then why doesn’t God say “hell”? Why does God spin “death” in a negative connotation; as a negative consequence to disobedience (instead of hell), if we simply become (everlasting) spirit after death? Why would Christ decide to come and offer “everlasting life” to us if we already have it when we become spirit? Why does Christ need to return at all (during the Second Advent) if believers simply go to heaven anyway (when they die)? Do you see what I’m trying to get at?
GEddie said:
And I notice that in your .sig, you are plugging a book about 2012 that references the Secrets of Fatima. If you believe in Fatima, you must accept Hell, because the persons involved in Fatima were shown Hell.
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Like I said, there are “revealing” connections made. Just because I say this doesn’t mean I believe in all she saw…not all of her visions were about Hell.
TheQuestioner said:
Sigh…threads like these always attract those who do not believe in hell. We then show them passages that show that there is eternal torment (like Lazarus and the Rich man) and they dismiss those and ask for more stringent proof. We then show them Revelations and they ask for even more stringent proof.
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[always attract the “nutz” (lol)…go on you can say it (just kidding)]

Yeah…all I ever hear of is Lazarus and the Rich man.

Are you referring to the “lake of fire” or “the pit” from Revelation as being “hell”?
  • If you’re referring to “the pit”, it says Satan is thrown into the pit (with chains) for 1000-year imprisonment [Revelation 20:3-7]…then after being freed (and after his final uprising) Satan is thrown into the LOF (lake of fire), along with all other disobedient (called The Second Death).
  • If you’re talking about the LOF as being “hell”, Revelation then says that “death” and “hell” are also thrown into the LOF [Revelation 20:14].
So the LOF can’t be Hell, unless it is thrown into itself?
TheQuestioner said:
In brief, belief in Hell does not imply any of those conclusions you posted. “Death” in Genesis was traditionally interpreted as spiritual death (going to hell). I’ll answer the rest of what you said when I get back, and also if you at least acknowledge and respond to what I said (showing that you are sincere and wish to learn more, not debate for the sake of debating).
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I would be lying if I said I’m here for understanding (on this point), moreso I’m here to discuss to prove the truth; to prove myself right or for someone else to prove me wrong. The thread question is “does one’s church/tradition teach about hell”. Truly, I think I’m on to something here because there are unconsistencies between this belief and scripture.

Here are the inconsistencies…I mean: Many say “death” is interpreted as “spiritual death (i.e. hell); not to come to an end (cease to exist) but to go to another place [of punishment]”…but are we adding to what it says? God himself defines the curse born from their disobedience:

[Gen. 3:19] “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of [dust] wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”

[Gen. 3:22] “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever”,

These are “physical” consequences described (not “spiritual” ones).

I don’t deny “spiritual death”, but I don’t believe it is defined as “being alive in hell”. I believe “spiritual death” means The Second Death; “extinguishing of the spirit”; gone; “to exist no more”. One’s either alive or one’s dead. You either exist or you don’t.
 
Revelations 20

7 And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 8 And they came upon the breadth of the earth, and encompassed the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. 9 And there came down fire from God out of heaven, and devoured them; and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast 10 And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Hell is tossed into the lake of fire, yes, but so are those who fight against the saints. And that fact that there was a hell to be tossed in the lake of fire in the first place should be an indication that hell exists.🤷

Matthew 9

41 And whosoever shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me; it were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 42 And if thy hand scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life, maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into unquenchable fire: 43 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished. 44 And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting, than having two feet, to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire: 45 **Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished. **

Luke 16

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell (Greek ‘Hades’, so no mistake there, the soul exists beyond death).

So clearly here, hell exists. And from the reading in Revelations it seems you go from one hell into another (LOF).

So yeah…I mean in the face of such verses showing that an afterlife exists it would take some effort to blatantly deny that hell exists and is eternal (throwing one unquenchable fire into a lake of unquenchable fire…pretty much throwing hell into hell).

Aside from all this, I think your problem arises because you view hell as necessarily a place, as in an actual location. You are assuming that the spiritual world is just like ours except more ‘magic’ in scale. Care to find out one way how hell works in the Catholic perspective?
 
[Gen. 3:19] “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of [dust] wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”
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[Gen. 3:22] “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever”,
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These are “physical” consequences described (not “spiritual” ones).
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hmmm no. They suggest physical consequences. But you will have to ask yourself the question, “what about a fruit can make you go from being immortal to mortal? Surely God would protect us from this kind of fruit, why put it in the garden to begin with?” of which you would have no answer. The only way this could be is if (and I have to assume creationism as fact here) the tree had to be there for some reason. The traditional answer was that the tree represented man’s ability to choose evil. That being then case eating the fruit had a physical and non-physical effect. If there was only a physical body then there is no way a fruit can infer knowledge of good and evil and sin (which are non-physical) unless there was a non-physical self. That being the case there must be a part of you that is non-physical, and if there is then it is incorruptible (it does not decay) since decaying is a property of physical objects. Thus it must be immortal (not in and of itself, but by the will of God). Simple logic.

Combine that with the rest of the quotes for hell and hey, you basically have all you need to know there is a hell.

Also, think of it, what about the ‘tree of life’ would make us live forever, why not just give us this property of the tree? Unless there is a non-physical realm here we are not looking at.

Also, Christ says “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life” and “I am the Resurrection and the Life”. We know He wasn’t talking about a physical life, because if He was life itself them man, those 3 days He was dead everything should have been dead. He was talking about a spiritual life.
I don’t deny “spiritual death”, but I don’t believe it is defined as “being alive in hell”. I believe “spiritual death” means The Second Death; “extinguishing of the spirit”; gone; “to exist no more”. One’s either alive or one’s dead. You either exist or you don’t.
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Second death being the extinguishing of the spirit? How can it be that if there is no spirit to begin with (as you have stated)? Also, what is the point of bringing people back to life, judging them and then wiping them out of existence again? It makes no sense.

We have to watch out, as Christians, not to stray into physicalism, where we refuse to acknowledge the intangible or reduce it to our physical understanding and claim that in this way it is the end all and be all.
 
I am not a church goer but will say every church I’ve ever visited preached about hell. Methodist, Baptist, Assembly of God, Charismatic, etc…

I do understand the comments. I have seen a revival meeting (Independent Baptist) where the hell fire and brimstone preacher extended the alter call to an hour talking about how horrible hell will be. And the person I went with was so frightened. I wondered what kind of relationship a person could have with God if it was only based on fear. I saw no love, only fear. IMO it looked like “fire insurance” to me too.
 
graceandglory said:
Fast answer, from behind the pulpit, NO. Can’t teach about hell, the money wouldn’t come in.

Outside of the sermon, people believe in hell. During the service, not so much.
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In a Fundamentalist baptist church I attended as a kid, they spoke of hell 24/7. I overheard the preacher saying to someone I knew that as long as the pews were filled and the number of baptism increased, that there was nothing to be worried about.

In their case talking about hell actually increased their donations.
 
Auriel said:
In a Fundamentalist baptist church I attended as a kid, they spoke of hell 24/7. I overheard the preacher saying to someone I knew that as long as the pews were filled and the number of baptism increased, that there was nothing to be worried about.

In their case talking about hell actually increased their donations.
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The late D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Ministries; Coral Ridge, FL USA) once said that we should not be like the preacher who “talked so much about Hell, you’d think he was raised there.” Still, Rev. Kennedy was never reluctant to tell it like he saw it. May those of us who are so called, do the same.

ICXC NIKA.
 
TheQuestioner said:
hmmm no. They suggest physical consequences. But you will have to ask yourself the question, “what about a fruit can make you go from being immortal to mortal? Surely God would protect us from this kind of fruit, why put it in the garden to begin with?” of which you would have no answer. The only way this could be is if (and I have to assume creationism as fact here) the tree had to be there for some reason. The traditional answer was that the tree represented man’s ability to choose evil. That being then case eating the fruit had a physical and non-physical effect. If there was only a physical body then there is no way a fruit can infer knowledge of good and evil and sin (which are non-physical) unless there was a non-physical self

That being the case there must be a part of you that is non-physical, and if there is then it is incorruptible (it does not decay) since decaying is a property of physical objects. Thus it must be immortal (not in and of itself, but by the will of God). Simple logic.

Combine that with the rest of the quotes for hell and hey, you basically have all you need to know there is a hell.

Also, think of it, what about the ‘tree of life’ would make us live forever, why not just give us this property of the tree? Unless there is a non-physical realm here we are not looking at.

Also, Christ says “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life” and “I am the Resurrection and the Life”. We know He wasn’t talking about a physical life, because if He was life itself them man, those 3 days He was dead everything should have been dead. He was talking about a spiritual life.
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But the foundation you use for your conclusions first links two different points that you haven’t (just yet) proven should be linked (you’ve merely said they go together). The “non-physical” aspect is not automatically “immortal” (as this is what I’m arguing to help disprove hell).

I don’t dispute a “non-physical” aspect as being a part of us, what I’m disputing is the “immortality” of that “non-physical” aspect…but in order to do that, we must first separate the false assumption that “spirit” and “soul” are the same thing, as these words are not interchangeable.

Scripture defines…

Spirit = Power of Life
Body = Housing (temple) for the Power
Soul = Being; Alive; a Person [as opposed to a corpse]

There is a distinction between these three elements:

[Gen. 2:7] And God formed man of the dust of the ground [the body], and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life “Ruach”, Hebrew for "wind or spirit’]; and man became a living soul “Nephesh”, Hebrew for “being”].

So the equation was established: Spirit + Body = Person (a Soul)

Paul even indirectly made the same distinction between “spirit” and “soul” in his first letter to the Thessalonians:

[1 Thes. 5:23] “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit “Pneuma”, Greek for “wind or spirit”] and soul “Auton”, Greek for “property of self”] and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our lord Jesus Christ.”

…So there’s a difference between “spirit” and “a soul (a person)”. But many will turn to passage Ecc. 12:7 in order to explain that people go to different locations after death…but look at the words used in the passage:

[Ecclesiastes 12:7] “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit “Ruach”, Hebrew for "wind or spirit’] shall return unto God who gave it.”

…Notice it doesn’t say anything about “Nephesh” (hebrew) or “Auton” (greek) [the living soul/being]. The equation is not satisfied without both constants: without the spirit, we can’t BE; and without the body, we can’t BE.

There is more in scripture to support that “spirit” is not “an immortal soul” but “lifeforce” (energy). And because of Adam’s sin, that lifeforce began to fade [along with physical death]…we were losing both parts to the equation, until [like you’ve said] Christ came and offered “eternal life” “Pneuma” (greek) or “Ruach” (hebrew)]; the Spirit part.

[For another example: Energy powers your phone. Surely, your phone is physically decaying but it won’t physically expire any time soon [unless you damage it]…however, the energy within its battery also slowly fades until expired. But then you plug your phone into the power source, not restoring your phone’s original energy (which is gone), but filling your phone with new energy.]

We connect to Christ (the Vine/power source), however, we still require a “non-decaying” housing (body) for this eternal life (because we still must satify the equation), which is the reward upon Christ’s Second Advent. I find that ALL points and passages in scripture finally sync with this view.
TheQuestioner said:
Second death being the extinguishing of the spirit? How can it be that if there is no spirit to begin with (as you have stated)? Also, what is the point of bringing people back to life, judging them and then wiping them out of existence again? It makes no sense.
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Well, no…I never said there is no spirit. I said there is no “immortal” soul. What is the point of resurrecting people and judging them if judgment has already been made pursuant to the belief that people are already alive either in heaven or hell? To be in either place suggests that a “determination (judgment)” has already been made upon their death [which does not sync with scripture that says ‘judgment comes at the end of days by Christ’]…and if people are already immortal, the “reward” [eternal life (i.e. “immortality”)] spoken of by Christ and by Paul is useless…if we’ve always had it all of this time.
 
Joshua27 said:
But the foundation you use for your conclusions first links two different points that you haven’t (just yet) proven should be linked (you’ve merely said they go together). The “non-physical” aspect is not automatically “immortal” (as this is what I’m arguing to help disprove hell).
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Ok, but first you forgot to address the bible passages I posted. Instead you merely used scriptural acrobatics in order to get around the issue. The Old Testament Jews did not have a concept of an immortal soul before the Exile. But to be sure…

1 Samuel 28 The Witch of Endor

11Then the woman said, ‘Whom shall I bring up for you?’ He answered, ‘Bring up Samuel for me.’ 12When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman said to Saul, ‘Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!’ 13The king said to her, ‘Have no fear; what do you see?’ The woman said to Saul, ‘I see a divine being (or spirit) coming up out of the ground.’ 14He said to her, ‘What is his appearance?’ She said, ‘An old man is coming up; he is wrapped in a robe.’ So Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance. 15 Then Samuel said to Saul, ‘Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?’

It is kind of strange that the word ‘disturb’ would be used. How could it be that the spirit of Samuel was ‘disturbed’ if it had not existed in the first place? Not only that, but she said she saw a divine being coming out of the ground. Why a ‘being’? Why not a life-force? If this life-force has a consciousness such that it in itself is a being then you have to explain why it isn’t an immortal spirit?

You have still yet to address the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Jesus clearly talks about an afterlife, and though you mentioned it, it was in passing and you merely rolled your internet eyes. I wont re-post that verse. You can address it if you feel like.

But let’s not forget:

Matthew 17

Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. 2And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. 3Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4Then Peter said to Jesus, ‘Lord, it is good for us to be here; if you wish, I[](javascript:void(0)😉 will make three dwellings[](javascript:void(0)😉 here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.’

Elijah ascended to heaven. This is fine. But Moses was dead as per Deuteronomy

Then Moses went up from the plains of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which is opposite Jericho, and the Lord showed him the whole land: Gilead as far as Dan, 2all Naphtali, the land of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the Western Sea, 3the Negeb, and the Plain—that is, the valley of Jericho, the city of palm trees—as far as Zoar. 4The Lord said to him, ‘This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, “I will give it to your descendants”; I have let you see it with your eyes, but you shall not cross over there.’ 5Then Moses, the servant of the Lord, died there in the land of Moab, at the Lord’s command. 6He was buried in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but no one knows his burial place to this day. 7Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died; his sight was unimpaired and his vigour had not abated. 8The Israelites wept for Moses in the plains of Moab for thirty days; then the period of mourning for Moses was ended.

So we see here the same Moses that died is now here with Jesus on the mountain. Now I’m sure you will say that God brought Moses back to life, but that isn’t indicated anywhere in the verse or in the bible.

We also have to deal with another verse.

1 Peter 3

8For Christ also suffered[](javascript:void(0)😉 for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you[](javascript:void(0)😉 to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, 19in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight people, were saved through water.

Christ, though dead in the flesh, was made alive in the spirit. Interesting phrase right? Not only that, but we see that there were spirits in prison. None of this looks good for you.

btw, the word for soul in Greek is psyche.
 
Sorry…I responded to the most recent post I saw. But here, let’s take these for instance:
TheQuestioner said:
Revelations 20:10 And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Hell is tossed into the lake of fire, yes, but so are those who fight against the saints. And that fact that there was a hell to be tossed in the lake of fire in the first place should be an indication that hell exists.🤷

Matthew 9:42 And if thy hand scandalize thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life, maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into unquenchable fire: 43 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished. 44 And if thy foot scandalize thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter lame into life everlasting, than having two feet, to be cast into the hell of unquenchable fire: 45 **Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished. **
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I cut your quotes to save on space, but again these passages talk about the lake of fire where people, the false prophet and the beast and devil are going to be tossed. This is the place of “torment” as described in scripture…a place that currently isn’t Hell nor discuss as being a place where disobedient people go right now (before the end). And for Matthew, the fact that the fire never dies says nothing about the people that are in it.
TheQuestioner said:
Luke 16

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell (Greek ‘Hades’, so no mistake there, the soul exists beyond death).

So clearly here, hell exists. And from the reading in Revelations it seems you go from one hell into another (LOF).

So yeah…I mean in the face of such verses showing that an afterlife exists it would take some effort to blatantly deny that hell exists and is eternal (throwing one unquenchable fire into a lake of unquenchable fire…pretty much throwing hell into hell).
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This is the problem, Hell is never described as being “unquencheable fire” in the whole of scripture. We associate the two (Hell and LOF) through generations of tradition, which is unfounded in scripture.

But “true” the word used for hell IS Hates (greek), which means “abode or realm or place of the dead”…the same meaning as described in the Old Testament using the Hebrew word, “Sheol”.

"Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the “abode of the dead” and suggested no moral distinctions (whether it’s a place for good people or bad people). The word occurs often in the Psalms and in the book of Job to refer to the place to which all dead people go. It is represented as a place, in which there is no activity, so grave is the closest understanding of the word Sheol (which we see in Old Testament translations):

[Scripture] KJV| Douay| NWT| NIV| MLB/NBV| Fenton| NLT| Brenton
[Genesis 37:35] grave hell sheol grave grave grave die Hades
[Genesis 42:38] grave hell sheol grave “death’s realm” grave grave Hades
[Genesis 44:29] grave hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave grave
[Genesis 44:31] grave hell sheol grave grave grave grave grave
[Num 16:30] pit hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave Hades
[Num 16:33] pit hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave Hades
[Deut 32:22] hell hell sheol “realm of death” underworld pit grave hell
[1 Sam 2:6] grave hell sheol grave grave grave grave grave
[2 Sam 22:6] hell hell sheol grave grave grave grave death
[1 Kings 2:6] grave hell sheol grave grave grave die grave
[1 Kings 2:9] grave hell sheol grave grave grave death grave
[Job 7:9] grave hell sheol grave underworld grave die grave
[Job 11:8] hell hell sheol grave Sheol grave underworld hell
[Job 14:13] hell hell sheol grave Sheol grave dead* grave
[Job 17:13] grave hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave Hades
[Job 17:16] pit pit sheol death Sheol grave grave Hades
[Job 21:13] grave hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave grave
[Job 24:19] grave hell sheol grave Sheol grave death N/A
[Job 26:6] hell hell sheol death Sheol grave underworld hell
[Psalm 6:5] grave hell sheol grave grave grave grave Hades
[Psalm 9:17] hell hell sheol grave Sheol pit grave Hades
[Psalm 16:10] hell hell sheol grave “realm of the dead” grave grave hell
[Psalm 18:5] hell hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave N/A
[Psalm 30:3] grave hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave Hades
[Psalm 31:17] grave hell sheol grave “realm of the dead” grave grave Hades
[Psalm 49:14] grave hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave Hades
[Psalm 49:14] grave hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave Hades
[Psalm 55:15] hell hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave Hades
[Psalm 86:13] hell hell sheol grave “lower world beyond” grave death hell
[Psalm 88:3] grave hell sheol grave “death’s portals” grave death Hades
[Psalm 89:48] grave hell sheol grave grave grave grave Hades
[Psalm 116:3] hell hell sheol grave grave grave grave hell
[Psalm 139:8] hell hell sheol depths underworld grave dead grave
[Psalm 141:7] gravk hell sheol grave grave nil nil pit
[Prov 1:12] grave hell sheol grave “dead-realm” grave grave Hades
[Prov 5:5] hell hell sheol grave hell grave grave grave
[Prov 7:27] hell hell sheol grave Sheol grave grave hell
 
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